least powerful cartridge
 

You have just won the right to be dictator for a day and you want to dictate to the entire United States the minimum cartridge for rifle and also for handgun for hunting whitetail and mule deer. What do you dictate?

I' ll take my shot now
rifle: .243
handgun: .41 mag

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

I' m not into dictating anything to anyone...but if I were to suggest a minimum rifle and pistol cartridge they' d be:

Rifle: .243Win or 6mm Rem

Pistol: .357 Magnum

At the same time I' d publicly announce that whitetail deer and elk are, contrary to some people' s opinion, NOT made with a hardened steel endoskeleton like the friggen Terminator, and therefore do not really need to be shot with a .338 Ultra Mag unless the shot is taken at 700+ yards, which is also not recommended.

Mike

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

Rifle: .243/6MM with 100 grain bullets
Handgun: .41 mag.

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

Rifle:243
Handgun:41mag

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

Rifle.......223 Remington with Bear Claw, Partition or X Bullets weighing at least 50 grains

Handgun......... Ditto the above



Yours Truly, Dictator AA



PS... It' s GoOd To bE ThE kInG[:-]

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

While I am all for people using some common sense, (I know....becoming a rare commodity in our society), there are too many variables to " dictate" sensible minimums to different individuals. Simply because not everyone will use the same discretion in use and limit themselves to using good common sense. Somehow I don' t think it matters to a deer if it was " gutshot" by a .243, .30-06, or a .458 Winchester Magnmum!

I took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, so I' d have to say NO Dictators. If I could though, I' d bestow enough common sense to everyone that no such minimums need be dictated!

And the reason I have purposely not listed stated minimums is because over the years I' ve recommended different minimums to different individuals...based on their needs, circumstances, and abilities!

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

I' d recommend the State of Colorado minimum of 243/6mm for deer.

Never Go Undergunned,
EKM

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Just since anyone hasn' t said it yet, I am going to be the devil' s advocate here:

Rifle: .50 BMG
Handgun: .500 S&W Magnum

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

270 Win.

44 Rem. Mag.

Good shooting!

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

Rifle. 250 Savage Minimum.

41 Mag. Handgun

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

17 HMR (thats what I would shoot at a " dictator" in the U.S.)

As for " minimums" (boy you gonna hurt some feelings in TX with this topic!) I would prefer the .224TTH.

Handguns: 357 Mag. (What can be done with a 41 can be done with a 357!)

Now what do I PREFER?
308 Lazzeroni Warbird and a 454 Casull.

;)
RA

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

.25 caliber minimum rifle

.44 caliber minimum pistol



Yeah the .224 TTH (Texas Trophy Hunters (JOKE) Them dudes need ran off T.V. They were using that cartridge on Nilgai. What a JOKE. No .223 caliber should be used on big game no matter the bullet weight. end of story. LOL, and the TTH needs it, NBH[>:]

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

.223
.357

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

I will be doing my hunting this year with the 257 Roberts. Our area is dominated by big mule deer. I have to send my new 280 back to NEF for a trigger job. I will have my 22-250 along for some coyote hunting and I would not hesitate to whack a deer with that if it was the only gun I had with me at the time. I have droped several deer in thier tracks with the 22-250 with Nosler 60 grain Partitions. I would however not put myself in that position on purpose. I will take along the old trusty 6.5x55 which I think may just be one of the best deer rifles around. I will be hunting for about two weeks in different types of cover and terrain.

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

I would consider the .22 Hornet to be a minimun for rifle hunting whitetails. However, it would not be recommended by me for an inexperienced hunter.

I am not a handgun hunter, so I have no opinion on that one.

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

Newboar, how many deer have you shot with a 22 centerfire? In TX they are HEAVILY used and most are many times less powerful than the 224TTH. A custom made, heavily constructed 22cal bullet weighing 80grns and fired at 3800+fps IS a serious contender for ANY deer when the bullet is stuck where it will do the most good. What other rifle in a short action that can group well under .5" at 100yds, that is very light handling for women and children, yet still has NO recoil but enough power to still smoke em to 400yds, exists?

I have a son that will be 8 next month (and two more children right behind him) and while I am still thinking about the 700ADL Youth in 243 for simplicity, I have never written off a custom built 224TTH for the perfect beginner rifle. The 22 isnt legal for deer in my homestate, but when was the last time the game warden asked to see anything but your license and kill? The gun is considerably more powerful than a 243 and no-one doubts the effectiveness of that fine lil round.

As for shooting nilgai with them, under controlled situations and with a good neck shot, this lil gun will bring down anything with a pulse! Dont be so quick to condemn others for something you have never used. The gun is like carrying a lasergun, it has no recoil, its trajectory is amazing but it has no awesome muzzleblast like a supermag. Combined with custom bullets that are heavier and much better performers on big game than is normal with other 22s, it adds up to a hell of a lil round. A 22 Cheetah or 220 Swift with custom bullets and a different than normal rate of twist will likewise turn in similar results!

Its ALL about having fun and making things go BANG! :D
RA

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

You' all shoot what you want, but for me .257 is minimum and 44 mag. in a handgun.
But my real prefferance is a big enough bullet that you don' t need to worry about expansion. I.E. some of the old calibers shooting big junks of lead.
A big hard cast bullet does wonders. IMO

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

25.06 and 357 magnum.

I wouldn' t mind having a .44 mag on my hip, and a 44 mag carbine in my hands though.

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

RedAllison,

My comments about the .223TTH were NOT directed at you. They were meant for the idiots who run the T.V. show Texas Trophy Hunters. They were trying to sell their cartridge and was talking a lot of B.S. about how it can take just about any game animal. You say how this is a good cartridge for kids and new hunters because of the low recoil and flat shooting. I would have to say that any kid or hunter that could not handle a .243, .250 savage, .257 roberts, 6mm Rem should probably not be hunting deer with a centerfire rifle, after all these cartridges have less recoil than most 20gauge loads. The flat shooting effects of the .223TTH is a mute point, new hunters and kids should not be taking shots past 150-200 yards in the first place. I am not condemning you Red you hunt with what you want to. I will disagree however, making things go bang is terrific when shooting pests, varmints, targets, etc. When you have your crosshairs on a game animal it is about the quickest kill, leave the minor calibers for varmints and step up to the majors for game animals.

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

I' ll weigh in on this one.

Rifle .270 or larger - but I do believe Jack O' Conner was right about the .270.
Pistol - .357 is a good miminum, but with right conditions, I might shoot one with my 9mm.

I also prefer big chunks of lead for close in setups, so I say that .450 Marlin is perfect. But to each his own!!!

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The .22 centerfires are illegal in some states. It is a shame that they are not illegal in my home state of Texas!
You don' t get extra points for shooting deer with a small caliber, so whats the big challenge? Why go hunting undergunned?
I know that I am going to hear about all the one shot kills that they have made. What you won' t hear about, is all the deer that have been crippled with the .22s!
Whitetail deer are fine game animals, worthy of more respect than to be shot with any .22!
I have said this before, and will say it again, if a person can' t handle a light rifle like a .243 or .257, they don' t have any business deer hunting!

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I' d probably call it like this:

Rifle: .223, .22-250, .220swift (call it a 22cal with XX grains at over 3500fps law or something)

Handgun: .357mag and .44spcl, but probably open up to .45acp too.

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I' d go with the .243 Win for centerfire rifle, and the .357 magnum for handgun.

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I am not gonna lie, I go out with a 45/70 Marlin and a Ruger Redhawk in .480 Ruger. That will put em down.

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JagMan, I am very curious. How many animals have you lost with a gun or bow. Curious how many deer/Elk/pronghorn/Moose/etc you have harvested. I myself have lost approximately 8 animals with a gun over my life. Almost all have been with a 270Win.

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I have lost 3 deer. Two were because of poor judgement of a inexperienced hunter. The third, was a well hit deer with my .308 that I lost the trail of due to heavy rain.
None were because I purposely and intentionally went into the woods undergunned!
I feel really bad when I make a bad shot. Anyone who doesn' t feel bad about wounding game, is probably not a " hunter" , certainly not a sportsman!
I have a nice deer mounted that had recovered from being shot with a .22 Hornet.
How do I know it was a .22 Hornet? Because there was an old man on our lease that would shoot at any deer he saw from 3 yards to as far as he could see them with a .22 Hornet!
What do people tell themselves to keep from feeling bad about wounding game with the .22' s? " Gee, I' m sure I missed" , " oh well, better luck next time?"
The deer I recovered was a rarity! Most wounded deer suffer and die!
As I asked before, why go hunting intentionally undergunned?

RE: least powerful cartridge
 

But see your definition of be " undergunned" is your definition (i.e. opinion). Some might think your 308 is undergunned, and the reason you lost your animals was you were undergunned and if you shot them with a gun like 338RUM, they would have dropped in their tracks.

See what I am saying. I mean you don' t get any brownie points by shooting deer with a 308Win over a 300 Weatherby.

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The .308 win is capable of cleanly taking any North American big game animal with the exception of the Great Bears. It is generally considered one of the best deer rounds for mixed terrain. Some see it as overgunned.

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Exactly what I am talking about. Guess what I use for whitetail.

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.243 rifle
.357 handgun

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It should be remembered that some people are not able to hunt with the more powerful calibers. One year I had broken my back, and I would have been unable to hunt had my father not purchased a .22 Hornet for me to use. That caliber is of course not ideal for whitetails, but it CAN do the job efficiently if you are aware of it' s limitations and use it accordingly. As I said before, I would not at all recommend it for an inexperienced hunter or one who would not limit their shot choices. I would never hunt with such a small caliber (I normally use .30-06) unless I had no other option.

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ANY CENTERFIRE rifle, pistol, or shotgun! Just like Alaska! If you want to shoot a Brownie with a .22 Hornet, it' s your A$$ that' s on the line!![&:]

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And it helps out with culling of the herd. The human herd that is.