308 marlin express cartridge
 

does anyone know much about that newer round marlin made the 308 marlin express. like is it a good round? is it accurate? how it the recoil on it? what kind of range? how does it perform at closer ranges? i thought about getting a new gun and i like lever guns but i don't like the 30-30 that much because of the range and 45-70 because of the recoil and i like the 308 is good but what about the 308 marlin express.

the 30-30 will have more range capabilities than the 45-70. I think the 45-70 has less recoil than a .308 but it all depends on what grain bullet and how heavy the gun is. I always wanted a 30-30 or 45-70 for deer. They are great. Never used the .308 marlin express but i would check out some 30-30s or 45-70 if your hunting mostly hardwoods. You wont take many shots over 150 yards in that terrain. I dont think ive taken one over 100 yards.

I dont know what loads or rifle you have shot in a 45-70 but I have a Marlin guide gun 45-70 and a Savage Light Weight Hunter 308, and I can tell you the 45-70 kicks much harder.

recoil comparison.

Cartridge (Wb@MV) Rifle Weight Recoil energy Recoil velocity
.308 Win. (150 at 2800) 7.5 15.8 11.7
.308 Win. (165 at 2700) 7.5 18.1 12.5
.308 Win. (180 at 2610) 8.0 17.5 11.9


45-70 (300 at 1800) 7.0 23.9 14.8
.45-70 (350 at 1900) 7.0 37.9 18.7
.45-70 (405 at 1330) 7.5 18.7 12.7

And these are not hot loads for the 45-70.

Yeah 45-70 does kick harder than 308 I know that for a fact it is a 405 gr bullet and 70 grains of powder versus the .308's 160 grain bullet. Please tell me how 160 kicks harder than 405 grains

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

Here's a recoil chart to give you an idea on the difference in recoil.

i was shooting my friends with 405 gr bullets. as i stated i said it also depends on rifle weight and bullet weight. The .308 i was shooting was light. Still it wasn't that big of a difference, atleast for me. unless you plan on this being a bench gun and firing more than 20 shots in a sitting then recoil doesn't make a difference in the field as long as you can handle it and doesn't make you flinch.

.308 Win. (165 at 2700) 7.5 18.1 12.5
.45-70 (405 at 1330) 7.5 18.7 12.7

the numbers aren't that different.

The 308ME will give you 250fps more velocity at the muzzle, and 5.5 inches less drop at 300 yards than a 30-30. That's not enough to make that much of a difference. When it comes to killing deer, just about all 30 caliber rounds are effective and kill deer quickly. Too many hunters get hung up on trajectory tables worrying about shots that are beyond their capabilities. I have two 30-30's and one 30-06, the -06 hasn't been hunting in years.

You also ask about performance at closer ranges. In my opinion you only have to worry about this if you're shooting a light-for-caliber bullet. For example, I have a box of Speer .308" 130 grain hot-cor flat nose bullets that were designed for shooting deer at 30-30 velocities, approximately 2500-2600fps. It has a thicker jacket than other 30 cal bullets in that weight range. Now even though it's designed for hunting deer, put it in my 30-06, drive it 3200fps, then hit a shoulder bone on the way in and your neighbors will be talking about the three legged gimpy buck for years to come. I don't think you have anything to worry about while using the Hornady 160 grain FTX bullet.

In regards to recoil, here's a good page that lists recoil for many popular rounds. Recoil has several factors that influence the perceived recoil that you feel. I believe that the 405 grain load that you mentioned has less recoil, due to much lower velocity. The 350 grain bullet is traveling at 1900fps from a 7lb rifle has 37.9 lbs of recoil energy slamming your shoulder. The 405 grain bullets is loaded to only 1330fps from a heavier 7.5lb rifle, and the recoil energy drops to 18.7 lbs of recoil.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

I have to ask where are you located, and what are you hunting for? If you're a true long range hunter you'd be looking at one of the crazy magnums, not the 308ME. My guess is that you're a regular deer hunter, who wants to make sure that you bring enough gun for any situation that might arise. I now look at it differently, I bring along enough gun that will exceed my limitations. I'm 51 years old, and wear bi-focals which suck when using iron sights. Unless I was to ever build a deer stand with a rock solid shooting bench, I know that I'm best to keep my shots to under 200 yards. With a realistic self-imposed limit of 200 yards, the 30-30 is all the gun I could ever want or need. I get to practice with lots of inexpensive reloads, and suprisingly my Marlin 336SS will shoot 100 yard groups under 1/2". Since you like lever guns so much, don't count them out for hunting. They're no longer your gradpa's truck gun.

The .45-70 with a "Marlin load" will kick a LOT harder than a .308. BUT, only the Garret and Buffalo Bore factory ammo are loaded that hot. Most factory ammo is actually quite mild.

I'll be honest, the kid talking about "405grn bullet over 70grns of powder" gave away the fact that he doesn't know jack. Don't bring wikipedia specs for the original black powder recipe to the table and pretend it means anything.

Frankly, the .45-70 and the .308, even with the same recoil energy, will TYPICALLY feel as if the .308 recoils more, for the simple fact that it is faster. What's known as "recoil impulse" is what comes into play. If I push on a car slowly and roll it 3ft, it hurts me much less than if I run into the car running as fast as I can, causing it to roll the same 3ft. Impulse, or the time required to transfer the energy, is what makes the difference.

My wife runs a Marlin 1895 Guide Gun with Hornady Leverevolution 325grn FTX's pushing 1792fps average. I borrowed her rifle last year to drop a 160 class 11pt at 250yrds, which is plenty far for most hunters. She's 5'3" and 125lbs, her soundbyte is that this load/rifle combo "recoils like butter"... Man up, factory loaded .45-70's are NOT bad on recoil...

That's not to say that the .308ME isn't a great round, nor is the .308win, but if I were wanting a .308, I'd get a .308win in a bolt gun or BLR (but I HATE the BLR). The .308ME isn't going to have the staying power, so you're going to be stuck sucking eggs in the not too distant future with a rifle you can't get ammo or brass for (unless you want to stockpile brass now, which is only available from about 3 sources, or start cutting it from .307win brass, which is also only available from about 2 sources).

The .45-70 isn't going anywhere. The .308ME isn't going to last. That's my determining factor here.

And I do know jack my grandad reloads ammo and loads 70 grains of black powder in his cases don't bud into something that you don't know about I don't use Wikipedia for anything and I know a guide gun isn't bad I am not talking about a guide gun we have one I am talking about something like a marlin model 1895 in 45-70 so go try to embarrass someone else on a different thread

And yeah nomercy448 you forgot to mention THE GUIDE GUN IS PORTED that makes a huge difference in recoil force yeah why don't you go read how porting affects recoil on Wikipedia. And that obviously tells me this guy doesn't know jack about how porting reduces recoil. Back off

ok well black powder isn't as potent as smokeless. BP burns slower and takes more to achieve the same velocities. A modern 45-70 factory load with smokeless powder and a 405 gr bullet is traveling around 1300fps with 18.7 lbs of recoil energy. With 70 gr of BP its travelling around 1200 fps with a 405 gr. Whether your shooting your grandpas load with Bp or a modern factory load (not a hot load) with a 405 gr bullet the .308 will have near as much or more recoil.

it seems like your a bit recoil shy or you haven't shot many high powered rifles.. If you think the recoil in your grandpas 45-70 BP load is to much go get a 30-30, 25-06, or .243. recoil friendly and proven cartridges, especially the 30-30. Like nomercy said the .308 ME wont stay around. I haven't talked to many people at all that had one. There are much better choices.

My Guide Gun isnt ported, only the older ones are, I had both got rid of the blued ported one because the muzzle blast was way to much to deal with. I got a stainless unported one now that is much nicer to shoot. I can handle the recoil, but a ported gun has way too much muzzle blast. Junk in my opinion, I wont ever own another ported gun.

x2! i have sat next to guys at the range with .300 wsm and .338 wins ported, the concussion is insane. always making me flinch when im trying to shoot! even if there a couple people down from me its still a lot!

I am not recoil shy I just don't see a point in shooting a gun that kicks any harder than I need it to just to shoot a deer and I have a .243 a 20 guage slug gun 2 45 cal muzzleloaders and 3 50 cal muzzleloaders and I can handle them all no problem I'm not recoil shy I just don't want to deal with it unless I have to

And ar15 has pretty big concussion and a lot louder than it needs to be that's the only ported gun I have but the recoil is nothing IMO

As an owner of a Marlin 1895, a Marlin 1895 Cowboy, and a Marlin 1895 Guide Gun (current one is not ported, the first one I had WAS ported), I stand by my statements. The recoil between all 3 barrel lengths that I have shot for the Marlin 1895 is relatively similar. I get about 2100fps out of my Cowboy with the same load delivering 1790fps out of the Guide Gun, but the extra muzzle weight seems to eat up the extra energy nicely...

In my experience, there is not a load that experiences enough change in recoil from one barrel length to another in the .45-70 that would be a tipping point to be NOTICEABLY different as it would be compared to a .308ME. A stout load will kick harder than the .308ME with an 18" barrel the same as it will with a 26" barrel. A factory load will still be a pup with an 18" barrel, as it will with a 26" barrel.

The .45-70 in factory loads, including the "original factory load" 70grn BP under a 405grn gas checked hard cast are actually quite mild (in deference to the SAAMI standards that are STILL LOW POWERED meant to prevent catastrophic failures in the older springfields that are still floating around).

Guys get so hung up on the punishing loads that guys hand-roll for their .45-70's and they forget that the factory loads are an entirely different animal. I hand roll the 325grn Hornady FTX for MY 1895's, while my wife uses the factory stuff for her guide gun. The same bullet leaves HER guide gun at 1790fps, where my handloads will push 2250fps out of it. I get 2510fps out of my Cowboy with this load (great bear medicine, but he11 on your shoulder). This isn't as hot as I can make these loads, but that load has been a "sweet spot" for accuracy and power for me.