Nomercy448

I'm looking for some outside opinions on a recent problem. A family friend of my M-I-L just purchased a used Taurus 85 .38spcl, and is having issues with mis-fires when firing DA.

When firing SA, it's perfect, several hundred rounds through it in the last couple months without a hiccup, but it's about 50/50 when she fires it DA. My initial thought was a light mainspring/hammer spring, especially considering that it's a rather light DA trigger pull, and light hammer pull for a Taurus 85 (I own 2, and my MIL has one). She's an "almost elderly" woman (55-60ish), so the lighter trigger/hammer pull was nice for her.

I've had a spring kit from brownells AND midway backordered for a couple months now, figure having extra springs won't hurt, and whichever one gets it in stock first wins.

BUT.......

She called the guy that sold it to her, which is the same guy that instructed her CCW course, and a friend of hers, and he told her that it was likely a problem with a firing pin, so now she's wanting to take it to a gunsmith, or mail it to Taurus (God help her if she does) to have a new firing pin fitted.

Personally, I don't buy it. If it were a short firing pin, she'd see problems with DA or SA fire both, but she doesn't.

I suppose it could be a combination of multiple things, a short/worn/damaged firing pin being one of them, but personally, I'd expect issues under DA and SA fire if it were a firing pin problem alone.

Any thoughts?

country1

Have you had the timing checked? It could be out of time. I would not shoot it until it is has a complete inspection and diagnosis by a qualified gunsmith.

homers brother

As country1 has suggested, my guess is that this is going to wind up a timing issue. You are correct in assuming that you'd see the same issue with single-action operation if the firing pin were in fact the cause.

Timing problems can be catastrophic. Safe and tag the weapon "Do Not Fire" until you can have a qualified 'smith go through it.

Palladin8

Contact Taurus and have them send a shipping lable and then mail it to them. They have a lifetime warranty and should fix the problem. It might take them awhile but they will fix it. When was the last time it was taken apart and really cleaned? Could be something as simple as having carbon build up around the firing pin port.

country1

There are factors that I do not know, but the above paragraph really concerns me. If I was that instructor, I would want to see the firearm and check it out personally. I really can't comment how he is as an instructor or friend, but what you posted raises questions to me. Based on what you posted, I would start looking for someone else regarding training and advice.

Nomercy448

Same song I've been playing for the last year or so.

I'm not as active as an instructor anymore as I used to be, but I do take the "Red Hat Society" (my mother in law and half a dozen of her friends) to the range, so I hear time after time about how great of a guy this instructor/seller/friend is. Ex-cop who offers CCW classes at the lowest price in town ($75 vs $90 everywhere else), and sells guns out of his house for as cheap as he can (basically $50 over davidson's website retail price-Not MSRP-plus tax).

Nice guy or not, this isn't the first time it has become apparent that his knowledge-base is limited. I had worked with my MIL for 6mos before she went to one of his classes, and had her shooting her revolver pretty well. Then when she went to his class, he "corrected her form" and taught her that she should cock the hammer on her revolver with her right thumb (firing right handed), rather than using the off-handed thumb as I had instructed her. He also taught her the SERIOUSLY old-school grip style of holding the off-hand palm up and setting the grip on the palm (pistol in right hand, setting the end of the grip in the middle of the left palm), and using basically a weaver off-set stance, rather than the more amatuer-friendly isoceles style I had taught her.

I spent the next 3mos convincing her that nobody shoots that way anymore, and that her terrible grip technique was why her groups went from 3-4" to 3-4 FEET. Finally we got her shooting isoceles again and getting back on target, then she started seeing these issues with F2F, and "Jimbo" tells her it's the %&@# firing pin...

Not a fan...

country1

Wow!!! Is this guy certified by an organization? If he holds a NRA certification, I would contact the NRA.

First, as you know cocking the hammer with the strong hand thumb when using a two handed grip changes your grip so accuracy goes down. His incorrect method of cocking the hammer with the strong hand thumb is also much slower. A majority of shooters incorrectly cock the hammer with the thumb of their strong hand. Show them the advantages of cocking the hammer with the thumb of the support hand, and they will never go back to the other slower and less accurate method.

Second, the dreaded cup and saucer method has so many disadvantages over the traditional two handed revolver grip with the support hand thumb over the strong hand thumb.

The Weaver stance or a variation of it has its advantages, but so does the isosceles. Once they master the isosceles, then they may want to work on a variation of the Weaver. One advantage the Weaver does have is your body presenting a thinner target for a threat from the front or back. However, if you can't hit it is worthless.

Nomercy448

I definitely agree that both Weaver AND Isosceles have their merits, and shooters can capitalize on either of them, or a blend of both.

In general, I recommend Iso or modified Iso (basically, Iso on top, with a split stance on bottom more like weaver), because it lets people "aim with their belly button". If your face, feet, and belly button are pointing at target, then most likely, your arms are too (in iso), so it makes it a lot easier for people that don't practice as much as they should.

Another Iso advantage for people in body armour is that it doesn't expose your "holes" as much as weaver used to.

Then again, most people shoot for pleasure, and will hopefully never have to worry about taking fire.

But on point, this guys "cup and saucer" grip and forced strong hand thumb cocking technique is for the birds.

Nomercy448

Update:

The springs ARE pretty light, but not as light as my wife's SP-101 with the 9lb wolff kit. Firing pin protrusion is ample, barely clears the cylinder face. The tip of the pin looks fine, can even still see the machining rings around the tip (i.e. not worn).

I checked the timing on the revolver and it was "slow" on one cylinder, about a 50/50 whether it locked up before the hammer break or not. The alignment is fine upon lock-up, it was just not quite locking up (way too late regardless).

I noted that a few of the teeth on the extractor were dinged (not sure how that would have happened to this extent), including the one for the late cylinder, so I got pretty concerned at that point.

So since I had it in hand, I disassembled everything and cleaned it throroughly. The tip of the hand appears chipped/worn. The hand and the extractor were badly fouled, but nothing some solvent and elbow grease didn't work out.

Upon reassembly, after taking all of the gunk out of the extractor and off of the tip of the hand, I somewhat expected what happened next. Now ALL of the cylinders are late, about 50/50 whether the DA hammer breaks before or after lock up. SA locks up just before full cock, not as early as I would like, but it's positive lock-up every time.

Alignment is fine once it's locked up.

So all in all, sounds like good news. The hand is easy to replace, and cheap. Replacing the extractor on taurus's means returning to the factory for a new cylinder (or buying a used cylinder), but since ALL chambers appear equally late, if I can get a new hand that's not chipped and worn, we'll be back in business.

So I ordered a new hand from Taurus, should be here by the end of the week (supposedly). $12 to my door, would have been free under warranty if I mailed it to them, but I figured it'd cost me more than $12 and 20min of my time to ship them the revolver.

If the new hand doesn't work (i.e. isn't long enough), I'll be doing a weld and reprofile job to extend the new factory part. Judging by the tip of the hand, I'm betting the new one will be longer and not chipped, so my money says it's going to remedy my problem.

country1

Please let us know how it turns out. Be careful. I don't know your expertise level, but I would be taking it to a good gunsmith.