my dads conceal and carry gun?
#11
A carry conceal weapon is of little use if its too bulky to carry or too powerful to shoot comfortably. A .45 ACP is a lot of gun for some. I used to carry a Colt Combat Commander .45 ACP in a Jack Ass shoulder holster rig. The problem there is, you need a jacket most the time to wear that comfortable. Also I am able to handle the recoil of the .45 ACP.
At present I carry a .357 magnum Smith & Wesson and even that L frame revolver is a little large for conceal carry. I have been looking at a K-Tec P11 in 9mm. Its small, and easy to conceal. Its fast to operate, dependable from all I have read. And never underestimate the 9mm. Put two of them in center mass of your bad guy and he will leave you alone most cases. Plus the 9mm is a nice shooting pistol with little recoil, so anyone can shoot it, with either hand. I carried a 9mm when I was a police officer and never felt under gunned.
The .38 special in an detective model is a nice little short range revolver. And face it, in a c&c shooting situation, your shooting will probably be 7 yards or closer. A .38 hollow point might not knock them off their feet, but it will ruin their day.
At present I carry a .357 magnum Smith & Wesson and even that L frame revolver is a little large for conceal carry. I have been looking at a K-Tec P11 in 9mm. Its small, and easy to conceal. Its fast to operate, dependable from all I have read. And never underestimate the 9mm. Put two of them in center mass of your bad guy and he will leave you alone most cases. Plus the 9mm is a nice shooting pistol with little recoil, so anyone can shoot it, with either hand. I carried a 9mm when I was a police officer and never felt under gunned.
The .38 special in an detective model is a nice little short range revolver. And face it, in a c&c shooting situation, your shooting will probably be 7 yards or closer. A .38 hollow point might not knock them off their feet, but it will ruin their day.
#12
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 608
How much did he actually shoot in the cc class? I suggest finding a gun club or gun store where he can fire several different makes, models and calibers. Be aware that a short barrel will affect velocity which may affect the bullet performance. Some bullets do not expand well when shot from a short barrel (less than 4") handguns. If that happens, the bullet basically acts like a FMJ; and you may have over-penetration. Over-penetration is not something you want to happen.
#13
Don't worry about overpenetration. That is, unless you're going with a hunting handgun round instead of the plethora of commonly used rounds for self defense.
Many of which have been suggested here.
Basically, anything that is less than the .44 mag is not likely to overpenetrate if you hit the center of mass.
If you wing someone and it's a through and through then you made a bad shot and caliber doesn't matter. Think of self defense like hunting, you need to do your part to make the shot count. A bad shot is a bad shot and nothing makes what happens after that something you can do over.
Many of which have been suggested here.
Basically, anything that is less than the .44 mag is not likely to overpenetrate if you hit the center of mass.
If you wing someone and it's a through and through then you made a bad shot and caliber doesn't matter. Think of self defense like hunting, you need to do your part to make the shot count. A bad shot is a bad shot and nothing makes what happens after that something you can do over.
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,056
Much overthinking going on here...
Carrying concealed is more than having a firearm hidden somewhere on your person, it's more about the accompanying mindset necessary to actually use it.
As has been stated already, defensive shootings are going to take place up close and in split seconds. The person who identifies a potential threat and decides to engage first has a significantly higher opportunity to draw first and thus also to incapacitate the threat first.
Of course, the person who identifies a potential threat in time to elude or avoid it completely incurs almost no opportunity to select dinner from the jail menu or to mortgage the house in order to pay the attorney.
In a pinch, a .380 ACP loaded with hollow points, drawn and fired beats a .44 Magnum being fumbled with through a jacket by a person who didn't anticipate the threat or having to draw at all (not suggesting by Fritz). If the first shot doesn't eliminate the threat, it will most likely change the orientation of the threat and leave the option of reengaging it.
I've had occasion to participate in, as well as observe and analyze combat engagements where the "ready" party prevailed over the "better armed" party, and where even that pathetic military 9mm FMJ entirely changed the dynamic of the situation.
Fighting smart most often means not having to fight at all. If that cannot be avoided, "First to fight" is the first advantage.
Carrying concealed is more than having a firearm hidden somewhere on your person, it's more about the accompanying mindset necessary to actually use it.
As has been stated already, defensive shootings are going to take place up close and in split seconds. The person who identifies a potential threat and decides to engage first has a significantly higher opportunity to draw first and thus also to incapacitate the threat first.
Of course, the person who identifies a potential threat in time to elude or avoid it completely incurs almost no opportunity to select dinner from the jail menu or to mortgage the house in order to pay the attorney.
In a pinch, a .380 ACP loaded with hollow points, drawn and fired beats a .44 Magnum being fumbled with through a jacket by a person who didn't anticipate the threat or having to draw at all (not suggesting by Fritz). If the first shot doesn't eliminate the threat, it will most likely change the orientation of the threat and leave the option of reengaging it.
I've had occasion to participate in, as well as observe and analyze combat engagements where the "ready" party prevailed over the "better armed" party, and where even that pathetic military 9mm FMJ entirely changed the dynamic of the situation.
Fighting smart most often means not having to fight at all. If that cannot be avoided, "First to fight" is the first advantage.
Last edited by homers brother; 06-17-2012 at 06:13 AM.
#15
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: orygun
Posts: 379
this is a colt model8 380,its what i carry and at 3/4 wide it aint big but packs a punch with hydroshocks.its a 1935.they are out there and depending on the condition still affordable.its never ever failed me and hides nice
Last edited by jdhogg; 06-17-2012 at 09:47 AM.
#16
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 608
Don't worry about overpenetration. That is, unless you're going with a hunting handgun round instead of the plethora of commonly used rounds for self defense.
Many of which have been suggested here.
Basically, anything that is less than the .44 mag is not likely to overpenetrate if you hit the center of mass.
Many of which have been suggested here.
Basically, anything that is less than the .44 mag is not likely to overpenetrate if you hit the center of mass.
#17
Honestly, if a person is worrying about shooting through an enemy combatant, they probably won't shoot. They don't have the right mindset to do what is necessary to live, and their firearm may join the ranks of many illegal guns on the street. After the hesitant person gets shot first.
Self defense is like hunting in so many ways. You need to be aware, and react fast. The major difference is that instead of the prey getting away, you get killed/wounded.
With a SD scenario, we are the prey, and not the hunter. The criminal, the predator, has the time do the thinking. The prey only reacts when they realize the predator is there. That's why we have to be situationally aware.
homers brother stated the truth of self defense quite well. The right mindset will give you the edge to survive.
Self defense is like hunting in so many ways. You need to be aware, and react fast. The major difference is that instead of the prey getting away, you get killed/wounded.
With a SD scenario, we are the prey, and not the hunter. The criminal, the predator, has the time do the thinking. The prey only reacts when they realize the predator is there. That's why we have to be situationally aware.
homers brother stated the truth of self defense quite well. The right mindset will give you the edge to survive.
#18
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 608
A lot of people think the standard pressure .45 ACP will over-penetrate with JHP, but the 9x19 has shown more actual cases of over-penetration. Not saying a person should not use a 9x19, but make sure the ammunition and bullet you are using will expand as desired when fired from your firearm.
I totally agree that situational awareness is vital. What also is vital is avoiding potential situations before they develop.
#19
My father carries a Iver Johnson double action pistol in .22 caliber. Its a very small pistol. A pocket pistol if you want to call it that. Its loaded with .22 hollow point Winchester bullets. The pistol holds eight rounds I believe and after you fire the first one simply by pulling the trigger, the rest are single action as the pistol is then cocked. On his last visit to my place he brought that little pistol. Out to 7 yards he was hitting a brown grocery sack more in the center of it then in the edges. And he was firing fast. As he said.. I'd only pull it if I had no other choice. And then I would shoot to kill them. Personally I couldn't think of any one that would want eight of them hollow point hornets hitting them in center mass. It would make for a very bad day.