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Need HELP Selecting a Bolt-Action Rifle

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Need HELP Selecting a Bolt-Action Rifle

Old 06-03-2012, 05:27 PM
  #1  
Spike
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Default Need HELP Selecting a Bolt-Action Rifle

Need HELP Selecting a Bolt-Action Rifle

Hello. I need some help selecting my first rifle. I have never owned my own rifle. I use to shoot rifles when I was a kid with my uncle and moms boyfriend. I also shot my friends rifle a few times a couple of years ago. I own a FEG 9mm pistol and shoot that at a range but I'd like to get a rifle and need some help making a decision/purchase. Please, no replies if you just want to insult or make fun of me, seems to be the “thing to do” whenever a noob posts a question these days. I just want any positive feedback or advice from people with experience that want to help. I'm not interested in your opinion of me, that's not why I am posting this. I've done some research and basically know what type of rifle I'm want, just need to narrow it down. First of all this rifle will be use just for target shooting. I do not plan on hunting with it. Also, and this might sound silly, but I got to be honest. I've always secretly wanted to be a sniper, but I'm no killer. I don’t have it in me. I love watching all the sniper shows on TV and play a lot of Battlefield 3, especially Recon Class. So I was thinking I'd like to experience the fun for real (no killing though). I'd like a sniper style rifle, but I cant afford a L96, SV98, or a M40A5. So I narrowed my choice down a little bit. I'd like a .308 Bolt-Action rifle. I plan on making this a serious hobby, I am in desperate need of a new hobby and figure this would be a good one. Again, I just want to target shoot, and I'd like to get good at it. Who knows, maybe get into some competitions down the road. So I would like to get a good rifle from the start. Don’t want to wast money on junk. So here are the rifles (and links to the rifle) I've kind of narrowed it down to. Let me know what you think, suggestions, criticism, or other rifles to consider. Also any affordable (like $300 and under) scope recommendations and opinions on the scopes that are included on my selections. Oh, and I really like the look of the rifles that have that (excuse me for my lack of rifle vocabulary) “Tactical” square stock like the M40A5. What is the advantage to this kind of stock and why are all the rifles that have this kind of stock so expensive? Also, I want as inexpensive as possible, so if some of these rifles are just priced for their name or the features are unnecessary for what I want to accomplish, please point this out. Also what is a good barrel length and how does the length affect performance? Thanks for anyone willing to help with this. I appreciate it.

Savage 10FCP 308WIN 24" BL HS PREC AT
http://grabagun.com/sav-10fcp-308win...s-prec-at.html

Savage 10FCP 308WIN 24" BL MCMLN AT
http://grabagun.com/sav-10fcp-308win-24-bl-mcmln-at.html

Remington 700SPS TACT 308WIN 20" HB MBLK
http://grabagun.com/rem-700sps-tact-308win-20-hb-mblk.html


HOWA/LEGACY SPORTS INT HGR36308G+ CM COMBO GREEN 308
http://grabagun.com/howa-legacy-sports-int-hgr36308g-cm-combo-green-308.html

Mossberg 100ATR NT 308WIN 22" FLTD MB
http://grabagun.com/msbrg-100atr-nt-308win-22-fltd-mbl.html

Ruger American Rifle (I saw a article in 'Outdoor Life' for this rifle. They gave it a 5/5 star review for accuracy and affordability. The Cabelas near my house sells this for $379.99. I like the price)
http://ruger.com/products/americanRifle/models.html

***This on is a bit out of my price range but I love the look/style of it. If you think this is superior to all the others and I should just save my money for this one, I will consider it. Just let me know “why”.***

REMINGTON ARMS CO GUNS 84456 700 TACT TGT 308 SYN
http://grabagun.com/remington-arms-co-guns-84456-700-tact-tgt-308-syn.html

***I also saw this on a closed auction. Like the detachable mag. Can you do this with all rifles (like the ones I listed).***
Howa -- 1500 Detachable Mag Sniper 308 AR 15 700
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/108946...-308-ar-15-700
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:08 PM
  #2  
Spike
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Originally Posted by Ridge Runner
If ya wanna practice shooting as snipers do to be successful you need the most accurate rifle you can possibly afford. the 308 is a great choice of caliber but you need accuracy. at 1000 yards a 1 rifle will at best do a 10" group, a 1/4 " rifle will at best do 2.5". my advice is save your money for a good rifle and study ballistics in the meantime, get a good grasp on ballistics, get a good rifle and practice, it ain't that hard.
RR
You're going to have to help me out. Not sure what you mean by "a 1 rifle" or "a 1/4 " rifle". I get the grouping stuff. I'm not looking to go 1000yards right away. I'll work up to that. But out of the rifles I picked which one would you recommend to get me started. I'll get a M40A5 or M98B down the road. I guess I need to start small at first and get comfortable with shooting the rifle and its mechanics before I consider going all out. Thanks for relying though ;-)
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Old 06-03-2012, 07:24 PM
  #3  
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Since you're just getting started shooting rifles, here's what I would recommend, based on the links you posted:

1. Buy the 700 SPS in .308. It's just a boring, very basic rifle. But, if you find yourself somewhere down the road looking to get more serious about your shooting (i.e. "when it turns from a hobby into a passion - or worse - an obsession"), the Remington M700 has BY FAR the most options when it comes to custom stocks, DBM (Detachable Box Magazines), triggers, not to mention a dizzying array of scope mounts.

2. ABSOLUTELY stay away from "combos" that include a scope. Those scopes are usually junk, and you're most likely going to have to replace it anyway.

3. In terms of glass, your budget doesn't put you anywhere near what any of your dream rifles would wear. But, you don't need a Schmidt&Bender to start shooting. In your price range, I'd probably recommend the Burris FullField II in 3-9 power (low power is 3x magnification, high is 9x), and I'd probably look to a mil-dot reticle (the reticle is basically "what the crosshairs look like"). A mil-dot reticle will eventually allow you to estimate range optically with some simple math, rather than relying on a laser range finder.

4. Get decent mounts and scope rings. If it says "made in China", it's junk. Just getting started, Leupold are probably the easiest to find and the best value for the money (you may want to replace them later anyway).

5. Once you get it set up, shoot the heck out of it. Be comfortable with it, be confident in the skills you'll develop. Patience will pay off more quickly than will dumping a pile of money into something.

Regarding those expensive stocks, think of them as a "Terminator". Looks like a regular stock on the outside, alloy chassis on the inside.

A rifle such as those you mention is just one piece of a sniper "system" - the most important components of which are the shooter and the spotter. Although it's easy to "look like" one, once steel goes downrange it's easy to spot the "mall ninjas" from the true marksmen. Focus on your shooting first, your dreams second.
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:21 PM
  #4  
Spike
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Originally Posted by Ridge Runner
ok, my impression was ya wanted a rifle that was capable from the get-go, so since you seem to just want a rifle to shoot that shoots decent, get a howa or savage and practice, practice practice. pulling the trigger isn't the hard part, its setting parralex in the scope and doping wind that is tough. however when you are ready to stretch it out, you need an accurate rifle that weighs around 10-11 pounds.
a 1" group at 100 yards will at the very best be 10" at 1000, or 5" at 500, but a 1/4" group at 100 will be 2.5" at best at 1000 and 1.25" at 500.
thats without any shooter error and thats not possible. thats why I stated get a good grasp on ballistics, that in itself will give you a legup when you extend the range.
RR
Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. Really appreciate it.
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:40 PM
  #5  
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IMO if you want a bolt action rifle for some fun, accurate and economical shooting at ranges up to 500 yards, I would suggest thinking about a Savage FVSS in .223 with a nice 4-16 scope.
Have fun making your decision.
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:43 PM
  #6  
Spike
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Originally Posted by homers brother
Since you're just getting started shooting rifles, here's what I would recommend, based on the links you posted:

1. Buy the 700 SPS in .308. It's just a boring, very basic rifle. But, if you find yourself somewhere down the road looking to get more serious about your shooting (i.e. "when it turns from a hobby into a passion - or worse - an obsession"), the Remington M700 has BY FAR the most options when it comes to custom stocks, DBM (Detachable Box Magazines), triggers, not to mention a dizzying array of scope mounts.

2. ABSOLUTELY stay away from "combos" that include a scope. Those scopes are usually junk, and you're most likely going to have to replace it anyway.

3. In terms of glass, your budget doesn't put you anywhere near what any of your dream rifles would wear. But, you don't need a Schmidt&Bender to start shooting. In your price range, I'd probably recommend the Burris FullField II in 3-9 power (low power is 3x magnification, high is 9x), and I'd probably look to a mil-dot reticle (the reticle is basically "what the crosshairs look like"). A mil-dot reticle will eventually allow you to estimate range optically with some simple math, rather than relying on a laser range finder.

4. Get decent mounts and scope rings. If it says "made in China", it's junk. Just getting started, Leupold are probably the easiest to find and the best value for the money (you may want to replace them later anyway).

5. Once you get it set up, shoot the heck out of it. Be comfortable with it, be confident in the skills you'll develop. Patience will pay off more quickly than will dumping a pile of money into something.

Regarding those expensive stocks, think of them as a "Terminator". Looks like a regular stock on the outside, alloy chassis on the inside.

A rifle such as those you mention is just one piece of a sniper "system" - the most important components of which are the shooter and the spotter. Although it's easy to "look like" one, once steel goes downrange it's easy to spot the "mall ninjas" from the true marksmen. Focus on your shooting first, your dreams second.
Great info. Thanks man. If you could just answer like 2 more questions for me I would really appreciate it.

1. Barrel Length. 20", 22", 24". What affect does this have on the rifle? And is one better than the other for 'Long Range Shooting'?

2. Hear great things about the M700SPS. One reviewer said this about the stock...

"I have been researching bolt action rifles in 308 caliber for the past two weeks and this rifle keeps coming up as one of the best buys for the price.I gave it a 4 star because most people that purchase it say they have to replace the OEM stock with a upgraded version to ensure the best accuracy of the weapon since the barrel is not a floating barrel.

There seems to be some pressure placed at the front of the barrel, if Remington could upgrade the stock or correct this issue then it would definitely be a 5 star rifle for the price.

If you take the action out of this OEM stock and place it into another higher end stock you will have yourself a very dependable and capable rifle for under $900 (not included glass, etc)."


So do you think this will be a issue? What about the - Savage 10FCP Bolt 308 Win 24" Matte McMillan Stock Right Hand Heavy Barrel 4Rd AccuTrigger 18142 - http://grabagun.com/long-guns/rifles...-mcmln-at.html

I kind of "had my eye on" this one, looks like it has one of those "Terminator" stocks you mentioned. Would this rifle be as good or better than the 700SPS? Would it have the "upgrade-ability" of the 700SPS? Also the barrel issue again, 24". That's 4" inches longer than the 700SPS. What is the reasoning behind this?

Again. Really appreciate the info and help. Thanks!
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Old 06-04-2012, 04:04 AM
  #7  
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RR beat me to it. I shoot a 20" barrel and while I have considered swapping barrels to a 22" or 24", the only reason would be to squeeze that extra 150-or-so feet per second of velocity out of it. However, because most of my shooting is at 800 yards or under with an occasional poke out to 1000 yards, because the bullet is still supersonic out to 1300 yards with the moderate reloads I use, and because I'm still connecting with the targets, I'm in no rush and I don't see the short barrel length as a liability.

That stock IS an issue. I bought my SPS knowing full well that my intent would be one day to replace it, and I replaced it very quickly. Then again, I've been shooting rifles for coming up on 40 years and I think I've about got my shooting fundamentals ironed out. That stock will work to get you started. It's probably not going to shoot groups of less than 1" at 100 yards, but I've seen noobs show up at the range not able to do better than 3" starting out with much better setups. I say shoot that thing until you're down to 1-1/2" or 1" groups, THEN consider upgrading the stock.

My 700 SPS wears an Accuracy International Chassis. The AI includes DBM, which most McMillans do not - though not everyone NEEDS a box magazine. Although the Savage 110 series has a solid reputation, there aren't many options out there for them. AI doesn't make a chassis for the Savage 110, nor do many other manufacturers, save McMillan. Savage shooters I know continually complain about that. They're hot and cold about the "accutrigger" - some see it as very useful, others see it as adding complexity where you shouldn't need it. Ultimately, you're spending an awful lot of money in the case of the rifle you linked for a stock that you may not like.

Look at it this way, you can pick up a rifle and get out to the range and shooting for about $900, including glass. Once you've developed enough confidence in your shooting skills, you can start replacing things - in particular the stock, the scope mounting system, and the scope itself as budget becomes available.

Last edited by homers brother; 06-04-2012 at 04:08 AM.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:31 PM
  #8  
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My preference of the choices you listed would be the Savage Model 10...they are a great rifle and for the money hard to beat. The accu trigger and accu stock and factory break make it a great deal. With the right glass and rail I have seen these rifles shoot out beyond 700 yards without spendy modifications.

Glass is what will make the difference, take your time and invest in good (no...excellent) glass with high a quality tactical rail. Glass...many good brands, eye relief is important, make sure it is clear all the way to the edge and get the set up you want.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:32 PM
  #9  
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Oh my...I just realized why I like RR so much...like me, he's a lefty!
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:52 PM
  #10  
Spike
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Originally Posted by homers brother
RR beat me to it. I shoot a 20" barrel and while I have considered swapping barrels to a 22" or 24", the only reason would be to squeeze that extra 150-or-so feet per second of velocity out of it. However, because most of my shooting is at 800 yards or under with an occasional poke out to 1000 yards, because the bullet is still supersonic out to 1300 yards with the moderate reloads I use, and because I'm still connecting with the targets, I'm in no rush and I don't see the short barrel length as a liability.

That stock IS an issue. I bought my SPS knowing full well that my intent would be one day to replace it, and I replaced it very quickly. Then again, I've been shooting rifles for coming up on 40 years and I think I've about got my shooting fundamentals ironed out. That stock will work to get you started. It's probably not going to shoot groups of less than 1" at 100 yards, but I've seen noobs show up at the range not able to do better than 3" starting out with much better setups. I say shoot that thing until you're down to 1-1/2" or 1" groups, THEN consider upgrading the stock.

My 700 SPS wears an Accuracy International Chassis. The AI includes DBM, which most McMillans do not - though not everyone NEEDS a box magazine. Although the Savage 110 series has a solid reputation, there aren't many options out there for them. AI doesn't make a chassis for the Savage 110, nor do many other manufacturers, save McMillan. Savage shooters I know continually complain about that. They're hot and cold about the "accutrigger" - some see it as very useful, others see it as adding complexity where you shouldn't need it. Ultimately, you're spending an awful lot of money in the case of the rifle you linked for a stock that you may not like.

Look at it this way, you can pick up a rifle and get out to the range and shooting for about $900, including glass. Once you've developed enough confidence in your shooting skills, you can start replacing things - in particular the stock, the scope mounting system, and the scope itself as budget becomes available.
Awesome, great info. Thanks, learning a lot here. I also posted this same question on 2 other forums (got the best advice here though). Everyone is telling me to go with the 700SPS. Also read a great article/review. Good to know you can upgrade as you go along. I think I'll definitely be getting the 700SPS. From what everyone says and the review it sounds like a real winner. Another person on a different forum was very adamant about me getting a 22LR as my first rifle, said I'd be better off. Practice, practice, practice with that, then get a .308. I certainly like that the 22 has such inexpensive ammo, but I shot the 22 a lot when I was a kid and my friends 22 a few years ago. I was a pretty good shot from what I remember, but it kind of felt like a BB gun with a little kick. I think I want something with more power. If you think getting 22 would be a good idea I would consider buying one of those as well. I know I can find a used one at this local gun shop. Anyway, thanks again. I'll keep ya all posted on my progress and decision.
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