Opinions on .22 Caliber rifles
 

Today I decided to treat myself. I went shopping for a new .22 caliber rifle. I looked at three, hands on mind you that caught my eye and made me smile. Although I will come out and state.. the assault style rifles really peaked my interest. The three I handled were;

#1 Henry .22 caliber lever action model HOO1. Wood Stock, forearm, 1-16 twist, iron sights. $292.00 The wood while pretty was nothing special. Very well balanced for such a little rifle. The store refused to remove the trigger lock so I could not examine the lever smoothness or the trigger as well. Seems like a well built rifle. The iron sights were nothing too special. I have shot this particular rifle in the past. My brother owns the same rifle I looked at, and I found it to be very accurate and smooth in operation.


#2 Sig Sauer model 522 in .22 caliber. 10 shot magazine. 1-16 twist. Peep sights. Polymer stock and forearm. Stock is folding and extendable (the folding part would not mean much to me). 6.4 pounds in weight (which surprised me because it looks like a plastic toy). $497.00 It was very well balanced for an assault type looking rifle, shouldering very nice and coming to eye each time. The trigger pull is said to be around four pounds, but they would not let me play with the trigger part in the store. With the Picatinny rail up top, I figured I could throw a Red Dot on it. Would be a lot of fun to shoot by the looks of it. Additional larger capacity magazines can be obtained "I was told."


#3 Smith & Wesson model M&P 15-22 in .22 caliber. 25 shot magazine. Semi Automatic. Cost $427.00 This rifle reminds me of the ones police carry for some reason. The Stock was extendable. The Picatinny rail up top would allow the installment of a Red Dot. The rifle TO ME NOW.. did not shoulder as well as the Sig Sauer. I had to constantly move my face to get the peep sight lineed up. Then I shortened the stock one click in, and it lined up much better for me. Weight of the rifle is 5.5 pounds, almost a pound lighter then the Sig. That surprised me. The trigger is rated at 7 pounds. Can this be right? Also it is 33 inches over all length, two inches shorter then the Sig Sauer. And the barrel is a 1-15 twist.


I did some searching on the internet. I watched videos of both semi autos being shot. The Smith & Wesson seemed to have feeding problems. The Sig Sauer in the video never jammed or failed to feed. Also in a video of side by side comparison by two shooters... both complemented the Sig's trigger and action over the Smith's. Accuracy wise, they were both pretty good with open sights (one video) and with a Red Dot.


I read reviews from manufacturer sights and of course they were all glowing. I was wondering what experience any of you might have with the model of rifle, or the basic style. Also whether you've heard any horror stories of jamming, or poor accuracy.

Another couple I checked out on line only..

#4 American Tactical Import GSG-5 which looks just like the MP5 but in .22 caliber. That also has great reviews. But every placed I checked.. they are out of stock.

#5 American Tactical Imports .22 caliber AK-47. This one I did find. But to be honest, the AK-47 never really did anything for me. Now I have shot them in 5.56mm and they were nice rifles. But I like the assault style better.

Any of you have hands on experience, or knowledge of how they shoot? In a You Tube video, the Sig was fired as fast as they could, with four kinds of Wal Mart .22 shells. And they had one Winchester that was a fail to fire. But the rifle never jammed. Also the accuracy was impressive.


thanks..

The Ruger 10/22 is a fine gun choice as well. They really don't have any food problems, and they have a ton of accessories available should you want to modify it.

I own a CZ 452 which is a bolt action .22 LR gun. It has a really nice walnut stock, but the factory trigger is meh. It still shoots incredibly well with the stock trigger. A true tack driver as the saying goes.

One thing you will find with semi-auto .22 pistols is that they do tend to jam more than their rifle counterparts. Use a better quality ammo, and keep the gun clean and lubed it will jam less. I own a Ruger MK III which is very similar in quality to the Browning Buckmark .22 as far as the tests and comparisons I've seen over the years.

Let's face it, .22s are just dirty rounds, and more cheaply made rounds than most other calibers. They are just prone to having more problems. If you want perfect reliability, you really aren't going to find it in the .22 LR caliber.

Yes, .22 ammunition is generally pretty dirty. As well, high capacity .22 magazines often aren't a study in reliable function. Combine the two, and you have a jam-o-matic.

As Sfury has already mentioned, the 10/22 has a solid reputation for reliability. CZs 455 will let you change rimfire calibers. Another pair of lever guns you might look at are the Browning BL-22 or the Marlin M39.

I owned a Ruger 10/22 once. That thing was the most INACCURATE rifle I ever shot. So I contacted Ruger and they had me take it to a Ruger Certified Dealer. The gunsmith there "claims" he tested it and it was fine. Now don't get me wrong, that Ruger always loaded and fired. You just could not hit anything with it. So I figured it was me and the iron sights. I then put a scope on it. Still, it would not hold a group. I tried different ammunition and still no luck. I told a friend about the rifle and actually got in an argument over it, and he offered to buy it, with even having shot it. He got a heck of a deal. Six months later when I ran into him, I asked him about his 10/22 and he said, he couldn't hit anything with it, neither could his Dad. So, he sold it. No more Ruger 10/22s for me. I do have a Ruger T22 semi auto pistol with a Bull Target Barrel. Fantastic shooting pistol. Never jams, shoots any kind of ammo, just a good gun. But that 10/22 was not a favorite for me. I own a M77 also, and it is very accurate.

I do not want a bolt action rifle. I stopped hunting squirrel basically because no one wants to eat them, and I will not kill for fun. I have a Remington Fieldmaster Pump rifle if I want an ACCURATE rifle. I want a Fun Rifle. Something to play with. I like to shoot swinging targets and gong targets in my woods. That is why the tactical rifle appeals to me.

Being a retired police officer, I have been around semi auto weapons most my adult life. I am well aware that they must be kept clean. And the tactical rifles are easy to clean. So that is not a problem. I was more interested in information reference the function of the different brands I mentioned. I love to shoot. I have my own range I love to shoot that much. And just the thought of shooting those tactical rifles appeal to me.

Try to find a Winchester 9422 if you want a lever gun. I purchased mine new, and will never part with it. Shoots shorts, longs, and long rifle fodder without a hitch. great accuracy also.

Take a look at this Anniversary Edition;


http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firear...ding/60DLX.asp


Mine shoots great !

That's a nice looking rifle Bat. But I think I got a case of black rifle fever. When I was handling them tactical rifles, I really liked them for some reason. Mossberg sells a Tactical 22 that looks like an AR-15. I read the reviews and it said they worked fine, but were all plastic other then the barrel and bolt. Polymer.. not plastic. And I guess that is the future in rifles. So I might have to go look at one of them.

Sheridan.. my friend has that rifle. And YES!! it is really an accurate and smooth shooting rifle. Just as fast as you want to fire it goes off.

In the gun cabinet somewhere is an old Springfield semi auto that I think looks identical to that one. That was my first rifle. Then I have a Springfield bolt action 22. A big long old devil. And the sights broke off it somewhere along the line. I gave away a Sears .22 single shot bolt rifle, very accurate and safe. I gave that to a kid that had no dad, and I used to take him small game hunting. He always carried that little single shot. So after talking to his mother .. I told him to take it home with him. And I still have a Remington Fieldmaster pump rifle. So the next .22 will be just for fun. Like my .22 cowboy action nine shot Italian revolver (my brother borrowed and still has). Lots of fun to draw and shoot. But its not the most accurate revolver I ever shot. Then I have three other .22 handguns for plinking and fun. So I wanted the rifle for just having fun with. That rifle you posted looks like a serious hunting rifle. If I get a lever gun, I want to put a large loop lever on it.

Might want to look at a AR-15 in .223/5.56 and a .22 conversion kit.

Best of both worlds............... now that could be fun !!!

There are many companies that make the AR style .22s that get good reviews. Basically go with any company that makes good ARs and you will have a reliable gun. There are a lot of good options out there.

As far as 10/22s go, the only one I've used a lot is older than myself. My Father still owns it. It's a tack driver that has dropped many a squirrel and some rabbits over the years. Having had that type of experience growing up does make me partial to them.

Just for giggles, Dave...I recently picked up a "like new" JC Higgins Model 103 228-22 bolt action 5-shot for $80. I had one of these as a teenager! It's a tack-driver!

my .22s are 1937 marlin,1946 marlin and 1954 savage 84c.oh i do have a ruger 10/22 but it holds the window open

JC Higgins were good accurate rifles. My buddy had one. He shot a lot of cottontails with that little bolt rifle.

another 10/22 lover I see.. :)

The most accurate .22 I ever shot was a Remington Targetmaster single shot bolt rifle. My neighbor had one. And when I was a kid he used to loan it to me so I could go rabbit and squirrel hunting with the other kids. I always gave them the squirrels as they loved them and my mother hated them in the house. If you held a 6 o'clock on that squirrels head.. it would knock them out of the tree every time.

I have decided. I am going to get the Sig Sauer 522 tactical rifle. I ordered a tactical 4x32 scope with a military dot scope I ordered. I asked a Sig Sauer owner and they could not say enough about the rifle. I trust their opinion and decided it was worth the extra money. So I thank all that responded. I am kind of excited about the new rifle. I think it will be a lot of fun.

I like 10/22s also, and have a thirty-five year old one in the gun safe now. My favorite .22, however, is a Revelation (Stevens made for Western Auto) bolt action that I traded for twenty-five years ago. Very accurate shooter. It's very similiar to the .22 that I learned to shoot on forty-five years ago.

Today, I went to the city and purchased my Sig Sauer 522 Tactical Field Rifle at a Wal Mart. Because it is the field model it has a 10 shot magazine. Peep sights also.




OBSERVATIONS...

The rifle is very well built. No rattles or loose feel to it. Even though the stock will fold to the side, it is rock solid. The one flaw I discovered quite by accident was the peep sight does not like to stay in place. The rifle feeds smooth and sure, with no jams or failure to feeds, and I shot approximately 200+ rounds today. The trigger is a real surprise it has a long travel, but breaks very light and clean. Very smooth actually. I was surprised that the trigger was this good. Just as fast as you want to pull that trigger it fires. I actually towards the end of the shoot was double tapping the rifle and it handled just fine.

The failure of the rifle is the peep sights. Like I noted. I fired the first nine rounds as the magazine does not hold ten rounds, the rifle does if you load one and then load the magazine. But I discovered the peep sight problems kind of quickly. I had spinner targets at 35 yards and took careful shots at them. I managed to spin one, but the spinner was not one I was aiming at. So I then OPENED UP on the spinner and did manage to his another one. But again it was not the spinner I was aiming at.

So I moved a paper target in to 16 yards. I thought it was 13 yards but the range finder told me I was wrong. I then remembered I had moved the shooting bench the other day when doing wood. Aiming at the target the rifle shot far to the right and low. So I made a sight adjustment.

Loaded the magazine, went to shoot and the rear peep was not there. Looked around and found it. Put it back in the rifle and this time really tightened the screws down. Shot the next group and again, still to the right. So I moved the sight again. Now I loaded all nine.



I shot group A rather quickly. Then decided to calm down and shoot.

Group B was the next adjustment up. Group C was an adjustment to the left and I discovered the sight had moved down the ramp a little. So I moved the peep up again and shot Group D. Now I decided to really commit and moved the peep far to the left... Group E was shot. On the last two shots, I noticed the peep had moved again. Now I was kind of upset. So I made a final adjustment to the peep sight and thought I put the screws in good and deep. I then shot Group F.



To double check the sights for the last time, I picked out a small circle on the target and shot at that. That is nine rounds.

After that I went back to the spinner targets and was just wheeling them around like a windmill. Nothing to it. I then shot at some square gongs at 50 yards and could hear lots of pinging sounds coming back. So I knew I was in the ball park. Finally I decided I would stop and clean the rifle.

CLEANING THE RIFLE...

This is one easy rifle to clean. Two pins that move aside and the top part of the receiver comes right out. You then lift the bolt and guns out and clean the barrel, then the bolt, trigger assembly and all the interior parts. And the rifle goes back together just as easy as it came apart... until the surprise. Putting the upper assembly back into the lower assembly, I look at the top and .. you guessed it.. No Peep sight. I tore the house apart and could not find it. I was a little upset at this point. Then I went outside and walked my path from the shooting bench to the house and there was my peep sight... laying there on the ground. relief was apparent. I then went in and put in back on the rifle, and lock tightened the screws in place. So we will see if that will hold.

I really like the rifle. Talk about fun to shoot. You can double tap this thing and it just keeps firing . And if the peep sight don't fall off or move, its a pretty accurate rifle. I have ordered a tactical scope for the rifle, and that should be here next week. Good thing I picked up two bricks of Winchester shells.. this thing is a blast. Plus I want to order two of the Black Dog 25 shot magazines for the rifle. Just for a little fun.

Now this is not my hunting rifle. This is my fun rifle. And so far the Sig Sauer other then that peep sight.. is fitting the bill.

Thanks for the review. I've seen that style of .22 before but this is the first unbiased review I've read. The only .22 I've shot is a 1974 Marlin Glenfield model 25 that my grandad gave me. It never jams and the accuracy is amazing just using the bead.
Btw, I've been looking for a .308 and I checked a lot of threads. Good honest reviews for the Ruger have been rare. Good luck with finding a solution for the peep sight. That rifle looks awesome so I'm happy to read that it shoots good too.

I did find a solution of sorts for the Peep sight.. I mounted a Bushnell Trophy Red Dot on the rifle. It was easy to sight in. And I left the front sight in place. I found that if I put the red dot on top of the front sight and that under what I want to shoot.. it is deadly accurate.



I am not a big fan of red dots. But since I do not intend to hunt with this rifle, it works good on the range in nice lighted conditions. I was doing some run and gun shooting and it was really easy to ring steel plates.



The bottom group was the first group I shot. Then I made an adjustment and you can see about 18 rounds at the center group. That top spray was a combat shooting ... where you pull up, center the red dot and just start shooting. Granted the group is not that good, but most of those shoots are at a man sized silhouette. If that paper was a chest cavity, there would be a world of hurt there.

I did shoot at some barn red spinner targets. Because of the light gathering ability of that red dot.. they blended into the woods on me. I painted them white.. and all was forgiven.. from a rest position at 25 yards they were easy. Even at 50 yards I was shooting a 4x4 steel plate. Aim 3/4 up on the plate and tap the trigger twice. Nothing to it.

I finally was shooting a 1 gallon paint can that was swinging free at 100 yards. and could hit that most of the time.

I shot off 555 rounds of the Winchester ammo. One cartridge failed to feed. It did this three times. So I suspected the cartridge. I did manually put it in the action and it fired. So would I blame the rifle of the cartridge? IN this case I am almost sure it was the cartridge.

I never had any jams on the rifle in 555 rounds. That box of ammo went in two days. But it sure was fun to shoot this rifle. I have a 1x20mm Nikon scope I might mount on it, just to see how accurate the rifle really can get. I purchased a tactical 4x32 scope but was thinking of throwing that on my SKS.

I wish I would have see this post before your purchase. I guess the Sig is good. I opted for the S&W M&P 15-22. This rifle has yet to jam on me. I shot Win, Rem, Eley, and Fed ammo. There were hyper, high and std velocity ammo. I am happy that the rifle prefers the cheap Win Wildcat ammo. I have a Browning Buckmark red dot sight on it and it is a blast to shoot.

If you already have an AR-15 class rifle, then there are conversion kits for .22LR.

If you don't have an AR, then the Ruger 10/22 seems like the best iron sight 22LR hunting gun for small game.

http://www.ruger.com/products/1022/index.html

I had a Ruger 10/22 and hated it so bad I sold it at a loss. That was THE MOST INACCURATE rifle I ever shot. I took it to a certified Ruger gunsmith who had it for a couple weeks and told me there was nothing he could find wrong. He claims he shot it. I brought it home and it sprayed all over the place, just like before.. even with the ammo he claimed he shot. I personally think he lied to me. So I sold it to a friend. The person that bought it also sold it because he could not get it to shoot straight. I would never own another Ruger 10/22. But I do own other Ruger rifles.

I've now put close to 1200 rounds through the Sig Sauer. Not one failed to feed. I have had three fail to fire. But those rounds failed to fire out of my Taurus Revolver as well. I think they were just bad rounds.

Since buying the Sig Sauer, I have put a red dot on it. While accurate and fun to shoot that was not doing it for me. So I put a Nikon 1x20mm scope on it. Wow!! what a difference. Deadly accurate.. and just a rock solid rifle.



I have ordered a BSA 4x30mm Tactical rifle scope with a mil-dot cross hair. On the recommendation of a person who's opinion I greatly respect. That will go on the rifle next.

Today the 26 round Black Dog Magazines came. Wow can you go through 50 rounds fast. Just a lot of fun. And accuracy with that 1x scope .. I was shooting the little spinner targets at 36 yards. I was ringing a steel plate at 60 yards. And just to see what would happen.. I took the lid from a one gallon paint can. I set that up at 100 yards. From a bench position I took three shots at it. And it fell over. When I inspected the lid, one hit was about two and a half inches from the other two hits. The two main hits were dead center in the can lid and about three quarters of an inch apart. For a 1x scope.. that was pretty good for me.

If blowing off $20.00 worth of .22 shells don't bother your wallet in a day... this is just a super fun rifle to shoot. It is also easy to clean. I really like this rifle. It has found a home.

When I owned mine, I was not even aware you could do all that customizing on them. Had I known that.. I probably would have decked it out and used it as a fun gun.

Love this one RR,

"..........will run minute of squirrel head at 100 yards"


That's how my .17 HMR shoots !

A 3" three shot group is hardly minute of squirrel head. As I would have measured that group center to center on the furthest separated shots. Nor is doing it once any indication that it could happen the next time out. There is no way that a .22 caliber could ever compete long range with a .17 HMR rifle. But it does show that a rifle often will make a person just have a great day on the range. And since I shoot on average five days a week, this is a real nice day for me. I am really enjoying the new rifle. If you ever get a chance to shoot one, I suggest you give one a try.

apples and oranges

"certified Ruger gunsmith"

unless you sent it directly back to RUGER , I don't believe such an animal exists

It was taken to a Ruger Dealer/Gunsmith who the person at Ruger I talked to, suggested it be taken to to avoid all the hassle of shipping it through all the FFL garbage. This gun smith was only about forty minutes from the house. When I questioned the man about the rifle, he seemed to be very aware of the Ruger products. I personally think all he did was gave the rifle a real good cleaning (which I was charged for) and then told me it was fine.

When I sent the bolt out of my Ruger M77 in for repair, that thing had to be sent directly to Ruger. And they did a perfect job on repair of it. In fact it was returned better then new IMO. Like I said, I own Ruger rifles and pistols. And think they are an excellent value. But you will never convince me to get another 10/22.

Many years ago, I had a friend get a Ruger rifle. It looked like an M77 which was a bolt action .22 caliber rifle. I have never seen such an accurate rifle as that. He had a high end scope on it and could make amazing shots with it. I did consider one of them a few years back. But like I said.. I went for a fun gun to shoot. This Sig Sauer is a real well made rifle IMO. I can't wait for the tactical scope to get here.

I had the same exact problem with ruger .22 I have. No matter how much I tweaked it, it was still inaccurate. Since everyone raves about the 10/22, I thought mine might have been a fluke. Looks like other people have the same problems... It was the first rifle I ever took squirrel hunting, and after two outings with it i switched to a marlin .22 bolt. The only thing I use the 10/22 for now is for target fun...

I've got a marlin 60, a 10/22 and THREE S&W M&P 15-22's. One for me, and one for each of my sons... Really nice rifles, and great practice for using the "real" AR's... Also, recently added three Sig 1911-22's to the household's zombie protection arsenal...:biggrin:

The other day it was so hot out, but I wanted to shoot. I got all my work done in the morning and decided I had a little time before the thunder storm rolled in. So I decided to shoot the Sig Sauer 522 .22 caliber semi automatic rifle. I shoot cheap Wal Mart Winchester 555 36 grain hollow point ammo out of it. I purchased an inexpensive 4x32mm Tactical Scope with a mil dot cross hairs.

From all the shooting I have done with this rifle, I can not tell you how impressed I am with this rifle. So far, well over 3000 rounds have been shot. Never to date a jam. Granted bad ammo caused a fail to fire but not one misfire that I can attribute to the rifle.

Now on to today's shooting. I moved the bench table when mowing the lawn and had no idea how far I was from the small spinner targets. Plus I got some empty plastic 1/2 liter bottles (had the well worked on and have been drinking bottled water for three days) and with an old shoe string, hung them by the neck off my PVC shooting stand. My range finder said the spinner targets were 41 yards away. And the hanging bottles were 43, 44, 43 yards away.

At 40 yards those spinner targets were just as easy as they were at 25 and 35 yards. Set the cross hair, squeeze that excellent trigger, and watch them spin away. The small spinner surface is two inches across. Had that been small game, they'd of never stood a chance. I was shooting off the front grip, using it as a mono pod rest on the table. As fast as I could set that cross hair and squeeze, I could spin. One spinner is broken and does not lock up in the top position, it just spins. So I was seeing how fast I could spin that. Just a great time.

Then on to the hanging bottles. I could make them dance with ease. I was surprised at how if I concentrated on the center of the bottle I could almost cut that plastic bottle in half. Seeing that, I decided to try and cut the shoe string that was around the neck of the bottle. I then proceeded to cut the neck of the bottle off, just under the shoe string. When the first bottle fell I was impressed with myself. By the end of the shoot, three more had fallen to that Sig Sauer 522 rifle. On one bottle, I am sure it was fools luck, I honestly aimed at that shoe lace wrapped around the neck of that bottle. Squeezed the trigger, and cut that shoe string.

That's the way you cut the neck off a bottle and or cut a string.




I guess when I purchased the rifle I purchased it thinking it would be fun to shoot ammo fast, but really never considered it as the kind of accurate rifle this thing really is. I am going small game hunting with it this year. Any critter better be a long way from me. As they would never be safe.

If you ever get the urge to purchase a fun, accurate, and seemingly fool proof rifle, I can not stress that while this rifle was more expensive then a lot of them.. it is one great rifle. I had in the past shot sig sauer hand guns and always was impressed with their triggers and their functioning. Well this rifle is really built well.