Long list of wants
02-24-2012, 12:41 PM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2
Long list of wants
Ok so I'm new to gun owning. My dads got a safe full of stuff iv been shooting since I was about 4 but it's all basic stuff and he doesn't hunt anymore so he's no help..haha. But these are the weapons I have been looking at purchasing within the next month or so and wanted to get some honest opinions on them. I will give the list and uses next to them. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Howa Talon Varmiter .223. Coyote and bobcat possible deer
Henry U.S. Survival rifle. Exactly what it's meant for survival
Remington Model 770 .300 win mag. Deer/elk
Mossberg 500 12g Home protection and clay shooting hunting
S&W MP9 9mm. Target shooting home protection
For my wife
Remington 870 20g home protection clay shooting bird hunting
Taurus TCP .380
Any input on these choices are great budget is mediocre so nothing too expensive like 650 700 is my limit on long guns and 200 500 on pistols
Howa Talon Varmiter .223. Coyote and bobcat possible deer
Henry U.S. Survival rifle. Exactly what it's meant for survival
Remington Model 770 .300 win mag. Deer/elk
Mossberg 500 12g Home protection and clay shooting hunting
S&W MP9 9mm. Target shooting home protection
For my wife
Remington 870 20g home protection clay shooting bird hunting
Taurus TCP .380
Any input on these choices are great budget is mediocre so nothing too expensive like 650 700 is my limit on long guns and 200 500 on pistols
02-24-2012, 08:11 PM
#3
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Trumbull County, Ohio
Posts: 9,520
I don't like the Remington 770. Look for a used 700, or the savage/stevens line. The 770 is not Remington's shining star. It feels cheap, and I've read bad reviews on them. For the $$$ there are better options.
-Jake
-Jake
02-25-2012, 01:47 AM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: west central wi USA
Posts: 2,242
02-25-2012, 05:48 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,056
Just a few thoughts for you...
My own experience with the AR-7 (Survival Rifle) hasn't been that positive. Not as reliable as a 10/22, or even a Marlin 60, not as accurate as a less-expensive bolt gun. The "breakdown" feature is novel, but if you're truly in a "survival" situation, you're going to wish for something with more power than a .22 LR.
I like the .223 and Howas/Vanguards, but I'm not sure the Talon isn't a solution looking for the problem? The .223 is forever easy-recoiling, the Talons I see have a "recoil reducing stock" (more $). Oh, and while the .223 is fine for coyotes, it'll destroy a bobcat pelt and it's on the light side for deer. The Talon is definitely radical-looking, but I'm not sure you wouldn't be better off with a standard stock in a Vanguard for about $300 less that you could then apply to optics or upgrade from your next choice...
...The Remington M770. Now, I'm a huge Remington fan, but this rifle (as well as its predecessor the 710) hasn't impressed me. It screams "cheap"! At least the "low-end" Model 788 of years past had a deserved reputation for accuracy and reliability. It's probably going to come with a bottom-end scope that'll get knocked to pieces in short order by .300 Win Mag recoil. I'd look instead at a 700 SPS, or possibly another Vanguard or the Savage/Stevens offerings. You can still find these for under $500. Just me, but the .300 Win Mag is too heavy for deer. I think I'd consider the .30-06. I've killed elk and deer with that caliber for years.
The Mossberg 500 has a great reputation and loyal following. I've found plastic parts where I expected metal in the couple that I've disassembled (maybe cheaper versions than what you're looking at?). 12 ga is good all-around.
9mm is a very forgiving pistol caliber, and it'll still do the job provided you give it quality bullets and put them where they need to go. Heaven help you though if you face an intruder with hardball (FMJ) 9mm ammo.
My wife started out with a Benelli Nova Youth in 20 ga (about $300 if I recall). Some issues with FTFs, but she finally insisted on buying a used 1100 in 12 gauge because the 20 was a handicap shooting trap and wasn't that much less recoil. Some of the 870 Expresses have been noted for rough chambers, resulting in some FTEs. Most important thing is that the shotgun fit her, don't rule out cutting down a full-size stock to get her to the correct length-of-pull.
A .380 is better than a rock, but you might evaluate other alternatives. I would see if she can handle 9mm (my wife does) and if she can, get her pepper spray as well for daily carry. Pepper spray going off in one's purse is inconvenient, but not nearly so much as a .380 going off in one's purse. The .380 will get the job done, but she's going to have to be very close (too close?) and very determined to keep shooting untll the threat is down.
Being on a budget may not be the limitation you might think it could be. There are lots of good firearms available within the limits you specify, and some for considerably less (the Vanguard, for instance). Put good glass and mounts on your centerfire rifles. The "made in China" label is to be avoided at ALL costs - it'll follow you into the deer woods until you replace it with solid, name-brand stuff.
My own experience with the AR-7 (Survival Rifle) hasn't been that positive. Not as reliable as a 10/22, or even a Marlin 60, not as accurate as a less-expensive bolt gun. The "breakdown" feature is novel, but if you're truly in a "survival" situation, you're going to wish for something with more power than a .22 LR.
I like the .223 and Howas/Vanguards, but I'm not sure the Talon isn't a solution looking for the problem? The .223 is forever easy-recoiling, the Talons I see have a "recoil reducing stock" (more $). Oh, and while the .223 is fine for coyotes, it'll destroy a bobcat pelt and it's on the light side for deer. The Talon is definitely radical-looking, but I'm not sure you wouldn't be better off with a standard stock in a Vanguard for about $300 less that you could then apply to optics or upgrade from your next choice...
...The Remington M770. Now, I'm a huge Remington fan, but this rifle (as well as its predecessor the 710) hasn't impressed me. It screams "cheap"! At least the "low-end" Model 788 of years past had a deserved reputation for accuracy and reliability. It's probably going to come with a bottom-end scope that'll get knocked to pieces in short order by .300 Win Mag recoil. I'd look instead at a 700 SPS, or possibly another Vanguard or the Savage/Stevens offerings. You can still find these for under $500. Just me, but the .300 Win Mag is too heavy for deer. I think I'd consider the .30-06. I've killed elk and deer with that caliber for years.
The Mossberg 500 has a great reputation and loyal following. I've found plastic parts where I expected metal in the couple that I've disassembled (maybe cheaper versions than what you're looking at?). 12 ga is good all-around.
9mm is a very forgiving pistol caliber, and it'll still do the job provided you give it quality bullets and put them where they need to go. Heaven help you though if you face an intruder with hardball (FMJ) 9mm ammo.
My wife started out with a Benelli Nova Youth in 20 ga (about $300 if I recall). Some issues with FTFs, but she finally insisted on buying a used 1100 in 12 gauge because the 20 was a handicap shooting trap and wasn't that much less recoil. Some of the 870 Expresses have been noted for rough chambers, resulting in some FTEs. Most important thing is that the shotgun fit her, don't rule out cutting down a full-size stock to get her to the correct length-of-pull.
A .380 is better than a rock, but you might evaluate other alternatives. I would see if she can handle 9mm (my wife does) and if she can, get her pepper spray as well for daily carry. Pepper spray going off in one's purse is inconvenient, but not nearly so much as a .380 going off in one's purse. The .380 will get the job done, but she's going to have to be very close (too close?) and very determined to keep shooting untll the threat is down.
Being on a budget may not be the limitation you might think it could be. There are lots of good firearms available within the limits you specify, and some for considerably less (the Vanguard, for instance). Put good glass and mounts on your centerfire rifles. The "made in China" label is to be avoided at ALL costs - it'll follow you into the deer woods until you replace it with solid, name-brand stuff.
02-25-2012, 08:37 AM
#6
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2
Thanks guys. Good things to consider. Now the whole carrying in the purse thing she has a taser for. The fact we live in orange county commifornia has the whole concealed carry thing is out of the question but I've been writing my senator, congressman and governor on a every other day bases and just trying to be a thorn in their side and have convinced a few of my buddies to do the same. I wish this state would stop hugging trees and become true Americans but for some reasons they have all become soft neglecting the fact that we as Americans are the toughest nation in the world. Now I could go on and on about that but that's not what this is about. Haha so what would be a good caliber for bobcat cause that's what I'm really interested in doing this year and I've looked all over on DFG for a coyote season out here and can't find it so that info would be greatly appreciated
02-25-2012, 06:16 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,056
For bobcat? When I ran a trapline, I relied on a .22 LR. Of course, shots were pretty controlled. Bobcats aren't particularly dense creatures, even a .22 Hornet would probably be too much. I still think a .22 LR would do the trick, but might consider a .22 magnum?
02-25-2012, 08:15 PM
#8
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location:
Posts: 5,130
Dutch,
I'm in SoCal.
We can kill coyotes all year long ~ as many as you can, no limit (valid CA hunting license required).
If I'm not hunting, I'm shooting coyotes.
I use a .204, .223 & .243 for bobcats (all diffferent rigs, it depends on what kind of hunt it is).
I'm in SoCal.
We can kill coyotes all year long ~ as many as you can, no limit (valid CA hunting license required).
If I'm not hunting, I'm shooting coyotes.
I use a .204, .223 & .243 for bobcats (all diffferent rigs, it depends on what kind of hunt it is).
Last edited by Sheridan; 02-25-2012 at 08:23 PM.
02-26-2012, 08:39 AM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,902
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but anyone that believes this obviously hasn't ever been to South America, Central Austrailia, pretty much any part of Asia except for ***an, Urban China, or Urban India, Africa, or anywhere north of the 66 1/2 parallel (or south of the -66 1/2, but nobody really lives there anyway). I guess the shorter list would be "never been outside of the USA". Maybe you were referring to Native Americans that were here long before the Europeans ever came, but frankly, when it comes to toughness, Americans are barely ahead of Western Europeans when it comes to toughness, and a LONG ways down the list globally.
Yeah, I'll concede that America is one of the STRONGEST countries, but the American citizenship is absolutely NOT one of the top 10 toughest national populations.
As far as your gun choices go:
Pass on the Rem 770. And also reconsider the .300win mag. The 700 or a Savage would be my suggestion (Savage as my first personal choice). I would NOT own a 770, cheap pieces of crap with a "700" brand to move them off of the shelves. The .300win mag is a GREAT deer cartridge, but a beginner's rifle, it is NOT, and there are a lot of other rounds out there that will do everything the .300win mag can do, with less recoil, less drop, less ammo cost (or less powder expense, for reloaders), and less meat damage. A drag car might be the most powerful racecar, but you don't need 300mph speeds at the daytona 500, you need control. The same goes for rifle shooting, pick your cartridge by REAL application, not by numbers on a page.
I would also HIGHLY recommend against the Taurus TCP. No matter how respectable their all-steel revolvers or 1911's might be, their poly pistols, including the new TCP, are junk. My sister bought a TCP several months ago, has returned it once, and has spent more than twice the price of the pistol at the gunsmith trying to get it running properly. If you want a pocket-pistol, get a Ruger LCP or Kel-Tec P-3AT. HOWEVER, since you said she's NOT looking for a concealed carry piece, it sounds like the TCP (or other pocket pistol for your wife) would be more of a home defense or plinking pistol, which NOT a good application of a pocket pistol. No matter how good you are with a pistol, pocket pistols are HARD to shoot, so unless you NEED it to be small, DO NOT GET IT SMALL. A Ruger SR9 or SR9c will fit even VERY SMALL woman's hands (my wife wears a size 5 ring and LOVES her SR40c). A mid to full size pistol in 9mm or .40S&W is a FAR better choice for home protection or plinking. Unless your wife is ACTUALLY trying to carry the pistol concealed, do not get a concealed carry pocket pistol. The recoil in a pocket pistol .380 doesn't HURT, but the muzzle flip is actually WORSE than a larger caliber mid-size pistol. Anyone that has actually fired one would agree that pocket pistols like the Taurus TCP, Ruger LCP, Kel-Tec P-3AT are harder to shoot than a full size 1911 .45acp or Glock 17 9mm.
As far as the coyote and bobcat rifle is concerned, Savage 12 Varminter in .223, or if you want it to pull double duty as a deer rifle, the same rifle in .243win. The .223rem is a fantastic 25-70lb game rifle (coyotes to bobcats). Personally, looking at your list, I would take your Deer rifle and Coyote rifle budgets and combine them to get ONE rifle, which would be a .25-06, .243win, .257Roberts, 6.5-284 etc etc in that 6mm-6.5mm range. (.243-.260).
I would also agree that the Henry Survival rifle is a very poor choice. For a 22lr "survival rifle", which doesn't actually mean "survival", it just means "take-down model", the Marlin Papoose is a much better weapon than the Henry. Frankly, in a survival situation, a .357mag or 44mag revolver with an 7"-10" barrel is a FAR superior survival weapon to a .22lr rifle, let alone the poorly made Henry, and the revolver would be even smaller for packing around. A Take-down Marlin 1895 or Marlin 336 would be a better optoin as well (these are custom overhauls of factory rifles, but still very affordable).
Yeah, I'll concede that America is one of the STRONGEST countries, but the American citizenship is absolutely NOT one of the top 10 toughest national populations.
As far as your gun choices go:
Pass on the Rem 770. And also reconsider the .300win mag. The 700 or a Savage would be my suggestion (Savage as my first personal choice). I would NOT own a 770, cheap pieces of crap with a "700" brand to move them off of the shelves. The .300win mag is a GREAT deer cartridge, but a beginner's rifle, it is NOT, and there are a lot of other rounds out there that will do everything the .300win mag can do, with less recoil, less drop, less ammo cost (or less powder expense, for reloaders), and less meat damage. A drag car might be the most powerful racecar, but you don't need 300mph speeds at the daytona 500, you need control. The same goes for rifle shooting, pick your cartridge by REAL application, not by numbers on a page.
I would also HIGHLY recommend against the Taurus TCP. No matter how respectable their all-steel revolvers or 1911's might be, their poly pistols, including the new TCP, are junk. My sister bought a TCP several months ago, has returned it once, and has spent more than twice the price of the pistol at the gunsmith trying to get it running properly. If you want a pocket-pistol, get a Ruger LCP or Kel-Tec P-3AT. HOWEVER, since you said she's NOT looking for a concealed carry piece, it sounds like the TCP (or other pocket pistol for your wife) would be more of a home defense or plinking pistol, which NOT a good application of a pocket pistol. No matter how good you are with a pistol, pocket pistols are HARD to shoot, so unless you NEED it to be small, DO NOT GET IT SMALL. A Ruger SR9 or SR9c will fit even VERY SMALL woman's hands (my wife wears a size 5 ring and LOVES her SR40c). A mid to full size pistol in 9mm or .40S&W is a FAR better choice for home protection or plinking. Unless your wife is ACTUALLY trying to carry the pistol concealed, do not get a concealed carry pocket pistol. The recoil in a pocket pistol .380 doesn't HURT, but the muzzle flip is actually WORSE than a larger caliber mid-size pistol. Anyone that has actually fired one would agree that pocket pistols like the Taurus TCP, Ruger LCP, Kel-Tec P-3AT are harder to shoot than a full size 1911 .45acp or Glock 17 9mm.
As far as the coyote and bobcat rifle is concerned, Savage 12 Varminter in .223, or if you want it to pull double duty as a deer rifle, the same rifle in .243win. The .223rem is a fantastic 25-70lb game rifle (coyotes to bobcats). Personally, looking at your list, I would take your Deer rifle and Coyote rifle budgets and combine them to get ONE rifle, which would be a .25-06, .243win, .257Roberts, 6.5-284 etc etc in that 6mm-6.5mm range. (.243-.260).
I would also agree that the Henry Survival rifle is a very poor choice. For a 22lr "survival rifle", which doesn't actually mean "survival", it just means "take-down model", the Marlin Papoose is a much better weapon than the Henry. Frankly, in a survival situation, a .357mag or 44mag revolver with an 7"-10" barrel is a FAR superior survival weapon to a .22lr rifle, let alone the poorly made Henry, and the revolver would be even smaller for packing around. A Take-down Marlin 1895 or Marlin 336 would be a better optoin as well (these are custom overhauls of factory rifles, but still very affordable).
02-26-2012, 10:19 AM
#10
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location:
Posts: 5,130
Nomercy,
Just to clarify; I agree that the US general population is soft & weak in comparison to other civilian populations around the world, but our "boyz" in the special forces ARE the toughest, most inteligent fighting force in the world !
I'm sure you agree......................
Just to clarify; I agree that the US general population is soft & weak in comparison to other civilian populations around the world, but our "boyz" in the special forces ARE the toughest, most inteligent fighting force in the world !
I'm sure you agree......................