Buck Shot Question
 

What is a safe kill distance for 00buckshot 3inch magnum for deer..Our deer run between 110 - 150 pounds. Is 00 buck pretty certain at 50 yds..if hit in the lung area?


Also, what choke would you use?

Thanks for your knowledge and time,
Chuck7

At 40 yards 00 buck has as much energy as a .22lr. Even if you hit it with half of a 12 pellet load, think of it as shooting a deer in the chest with a .22, six times really fast. Do people kill deer with buckshot, of course they do but it also wounds more deer than any other type of round. I would never use buckshot further than 25-30 yards, and only if the hunting regulations required it's use. If you're required to use a shotgun, do yourself a favor and use slugs. I've shot and lost quite a few deer back in New Jersey when it was buckshot only, but once they started allowing the use of slugs I recovered every deer that I hit.

As far as which choke to use. Buckshot doesn't work like birdshot in a choke, a lot of guys get better groups with just an improved cylinder. You need to pattern your gun with different loads to see which one works better.

You need to shoot your gun and see. My browning will put all pellets of 3" mag 00 buck in a 10" circle at 40yds. Very confident at that range. My max would be 50 if I had a good shot, but I know my gun can do it.

That said...I haven't used my shotgun in at least 10yrs. I agree that buckshot is responsible for wounding more game than anything. Some of my buddies hunt w dogs and they all use buckshot. Every week I get reports of them "missing" deer that ran by at 30yds to 50yds and they unloaded their gun at it. They say "Dang, I missed again".

I'm not a big fan.

Another option is made by the Dixie slug company of Old Town, Fl. They make a buckshot load called the tri-ball load. It utilizes 3 hardened lead balls that measure .600" in diameter. Compared to the anemic results that are produced by 00 buck, the tri-ball hits with almost 2,000ftlbs of energy at 50 yards. If I was forced to use buckshot, this is the load I would use.

http://www.dixieslugs.com/products.html

Not only is this common when using buckshot, but go talk to a meat processor in an area where buckshot use is common. They typically see quite a bit of infected buckshot wounds.

I'm also not a fan of using buckshot. Its ok when they drop on the spot, but leaves a very poor or no blood trail to track by!

IMO buckshot is BS for deer regardless of the load used.

I agree with WV Hunter, see what YOUR gun will do. I had a bad experience with buck shot on an old doe years back and would not use it again. As deer get older their hide gets thicker and thicker. I am sure you can buy more powerful shells now, but I would test what your gun will do with them at different yardage.

While I am not a big fan of buckshot a lot of deer have been shot and recovered with it over the years.. Up here the choice of buckshot used to be #4 buck. 40 to 50 yards would certainly be the max for it. The biggest key to using buckshot is 1) distance and 2) tracking. As stated before on this post very little blood to no blood can be an issue.. The first thing is to check for hair.. Then if not in a pressured area let the deer be for an hour in order for it to lay down and stiffen up some. This will allow you a chance to get very close to it in case it was a no kill shot. When no blood can be found look for a deer running and then walking with it's toes spread.. Spread toes are common with a wounded deer trying to keep it's balance.. I recommened full choke when using buckshot.. Also if you are hunting in that green swamp you were talking about. You most likely will be hard pressed to even see a deer out at 50 yards so you shouldn't have any problem.. Also keep in mind a lot of deer that have been taken with buckshot up here dress out as heavey and heavier at times as your deer at live wieght. The key again is shot range and placement as well as your tracking skills..

I have seen a lot of people do this very same thing with rifles.. Why because the deer never fell like they thought it should of.. Or in some cases to discourage other hunters so they can continue even though they could of tagged out.. There is a lot of different reasons for people missing and that lists goes on and on.. I have helped recover more than one deer that was shot at. All because they could not pin point exactly where the deer was standing when they fired at it.. It is in some cases experience that matters..

Thanks so much for the replies and sharing your knowledge/experiences.
Sincerely,
Chuck7

"I'm not a big fan."


+1


Also of Fish & Game Dept. who make questionable laws surrounding the fair chase of game & non-game animals.



"Personally, in shotgun only areas I'd prefer to use a m/l or slug gun now. "

+1 also

I agree Phil.

The difference I see is that with unloading buckshot at running deer at 30-60yds - if you are holding on the deer...imo, you don't miss. Sure, you may not drop the deer on the spot, and maybe all your pellets didn't hit the deer, but some of the buckshot is definitely hitting the target. Too often they don't bleed well and/or run off and die. Alot of the buckshot hunters chalk it up to "I missed".

It CAN be deadly and is very devistating at short range. You shoot a deer at 20-30yds with a good patterning load of buckshot, man you can fold em up right now. First buck I ever killed was with 00buck, dropped him on the spot. I've also had one that didn't leave any blood trail in very thick woods. After about 30mins of a few of us searching, we found him. Couple holes right in the vitals, just no blood. Deer ran about 80yds.

Personally, in shotgun only areas I'd prefer to use a m/l or slug gun now.

I would only use in super thick stuff at a range no greater than 40 yds..I think it should be good. Once I passed up a monster buck at about 35 yds in VA. I wasn't sure if my buck shot would kill it..so after the hunt I set up a piece of 3/4 inch plywood at 50 yds..the buck shot went clean threw it...and that was only 2 2/4 inch 12 guage.

I'm sure some of the guys on here are tired of hearing me say this, but when you really think about buckshot, it's not about energy, it's about accuracy. Each pellet from a 00buck load has about twice the energy of a .22lr, or 2/3 the energy of a .22mag. Yes, a heart shot with 00buckshot at 50yrds (or more honestly) will probably do the trick. BUT, there are no guarantees. 00buck will have a dang big pattern past 50yrds, and there's no guarantee any of the pellets will connect with the heart. At best, you're talking about a lung shot. Then the problem becomes that it damages the near lung, but probably doesn't penetrate to damage the far lung. A deer can run a LONG way on one good lung.

There are TONS of deer wounded every year with buckshot. Frankly, I'd rather stay home than hunt a "buckshot only" season. Either use slugs (if legal) or buy a bow.

If I HAD to use buckshot, I would ONLY shoot at a range where my pattern guaranteed 2 or more pellets hitting the heart. In my shotguns, that's about 30-40yrds, maybe 50-55yrds with a well balanced load and choke. Even if I can guarantee 2+ heart hits, honestly, it's a push for me if I had any other option, because I couldn't guarantee that the rest of the 6-13 pellets aren't going to connect with the paunch. I HATE dressing paunch shot deer.

Patterning and sighting in will be critical.

To quote Bruce Lee: "Boards... don't hit back".

Shooting through plywood isn't really analogous to penetrating flesh. The wood ultimately is rigid, and has no tendancy for stretch. Flesh, on the other hand, is supple and flexible. A 25lb fiberglass kids bow will shoot through plywood (stuck an arrow through the exterior wall of my bedroom as a kid), but that doesn't mean that it would pass through a deer. Projectile resistance in flesh is HUGE. Shooting through 3/4" plywood would bascially tell me it would PROBABLY penetrate 1 1/2" to 2" into flesh. All bets are off for hitting hair, skin, and or ribs.

Oddly enough, hair and feathers are actually very difficult to penetrate. They literally SCRUB energy off of bullets. It's like a crumple zone on a car, hair just seems to slow bullets down like crazy (high speed cameras are awesome).

Bipods on Shotguns?
 

Whoops! Meant to post a new thread! Sorry for the accidental hijack!

Thousands of deer are killed with buckshot each year and have been killed this way since the 1700s when deer hunting with dogs got popular in America...

The trick is to test your gun with different brand shells and chokes at different ranges...Once you find a load that will put several pellets into a 8-10 inch circle at a given range then you have determined the range limitations of that gun...Then you must limit yourself to that range...

Where some have problems is not checking their guns and shooting too far...This is no different than the rifle hunter that goes hunting with a bore sighted rifle or shoots at game at ranges too far for his skills...Buckshot itself is very effective if used properly...

Hunters that dog hunt post gunners at known deer crossings...When a deer comes by the hunter shoots 2-3 times as the deer runs by...This is alot like wing shooting, some are very good at this, some are not...I've had deer drop at the first shot and some continue on...When properly hit with buckshot the deer doesn't go far...Since the deer dogs are close behind they continue on the track and find the deer usually laying within 50 yards of the first shot...

This is how buckshot is used effectively...In a still hunting situation I prefer a single projectile and a gun with a scope to help with low light situations...

While not a fan of buckshot, I think we should be fair about it. I used to do logging and land clearing in a lot of special regulation areas and rifle areas right after and some times during deer season. All the different weapons lose a lot of deer. A lot more guys hunt with rifles so the amount of deer hit and lost is probably greater than bow or shotgun. Bow and shotgun lost deer are usually in areas where they are seen by more people. I hunt with rifles and bows that some people think are under-powered, but I know the weapon's capability.

Way back when we were stuck with Buckshot only in Jersey we did just fine. The ability to get a few shot into the kill zone is what matters. Went back to jersey in December and dropped a nice 4 point at 15 yards, dropped in his tracks. Good for me since 10 yards ahead was a brook I didn't have to traverse. Back to buck shot. At 50 yards it will penetrate from one side to the other often stopping at the far side skin. That means all the energy is dissipated in the animal.
Important is to be broadside for good penetration you get a little more angle when shooting from the rear due to hair growth direction.
I am not saying take long shots but the 000 pellets have enough punch at 100yards to easily penetrate a whitetail. The problem is you don't know where the pellets will land a long distances.
Lets not forget a 000 pellet can kill a person out to around 500 yards. Good reason for not taking reckless shots.
In swampy heavy brush 000 rules. In Jersey type woodlands with a lot of hunting pressure I hunt the swampiest thickest area, it's where the big Uns go.
Another two cents!!!

again..the least of you has more ballistic knowledge than I..I do appreciate the time that you all took in sharing. Probably out of 100 hunts I may use buckshot once..only in extremecases..Most times I use my Marlin 30-30 for semi thick stuff from 0- 75 yds and places up to 100- and beyond my 270 Remington 700..

I've killed many deer w/buckshot before the use of slugs. Never lost one and all dropped within yds. most on the spot with the exception of one that tried and made it 40 yds before I was able to climb down and finish it. All shots were in thick stuff and most at 30 yds.
My buddy has dropped all his deer on the spot including a 60 yd shot last year. You need to patern the gun and see which brand and choke it likes. The newer shot and buffer granules inside make longer shots more possible than say 25 yrs ago. I've seen a deer drive where the guy dropped one at over 90 yds. luck maybe but he routinely drops them at 60 using an ultra full turkey choke and 3 1/2" shells. Years ago you couldn't use a full choke as the pellets would squeeze together and fly off in opposite directions upon leaving the barrel. All this being said I find slugs ruin less meat, is more precise and gives you longer shot opurtunities. But now I use my muzzy. But if on a drive or hunting where I can't see more than 50 yds I wouldn't hesitate to grab my SG with 00 &000.
Good Luck Chuck, no pun intended.
Ps in Southern Jersey where it's thick stuff, I've read they use no. 4 buck first to clear the way followed by 00 for the kill. Not for me but to each their own.

Thanks jersey,

Tomorrow is my last day..it's very thick..I wished my shotgun was patterned ..but sonce it's not..I;ll climb higher and use my open sited Tru Glo 30-30 Marlin..It's tough siting in my 870 because I also use it for gobblers..I have the Gobble Dot sites on them and I'm afraid if I keep messing with them I'll wear out the screws..

Right now my 870 is set up nicely for slugs using the improved cylinder..but over the summer I'll try some various buckshots because many of my hot spots are 30 yd shots maximum.

One option you might consider, since you're concerned about adjusting your sights too much, and are clearly dual purposing your shotty...

Since your Gobble Dots are barrel mounted (both sights ride the vent rib), you have the option of adding a recevier mount, like a B-Square Saddle Mount, and mounting a different sight/scope.

I use the same Benelli Supernova for Turkey and Coyotes, for coyotes, I have a B-square with a Tru-Glo red dot sight installed, for turkeys, I have TruGlo Tru Point Xtreme fiber-O sights mounted on the vent rib for turkeys. I used 2 part auto epoxy to "bed" the saddle mount to the receiver (took a couple tries, couldn't get the mount off the first time!) so it's consistent every time I install it. It was PRETTY close without the epoxy as long as I sort of "seated" the mount rearward, and torqued the screws the same each time. Two screws, a choke, and some ammo, and I can swap from a turkey call to a coyote call LITERALLY in under 5min.

Another option, of course, would be to buy a 2nd barrel and use barrel mounted sights on both, but it's a LOT more expensive to do it this way ($150-200 bucks for a new barrel, $20 for a B-square saddle mount).

I use Buck for coyotes. Use a super full choke actually called a predator choke in a 870 express mag. I patterned all Buck shells from #4 to OOO at 40 yrds. and got the best reults from #4 and OOO buck. The rest were hit and miss with a good chance of non-lethal wounds. Sometimes the OOO Buck will destroy pelts, depending on the range.
I also found out that the OO Buck shell is primarily used for close range self-defense, as it opens up quickly past ten yrds.

Size Nominal diameter Pellets/oz
0000 ("quadruple-aught") .38" (9.7 mm) 5
000 ("triple-aught") .36" (9.1 mm) 6
00 ("double-aught") .33" (8.4 mm) 8
0 ("aught") .32" (8.1 mm) 9
1 .30" (7.6 mm) 10
2 .27" (6.9 mm) 15
3 .25" (6.4 mm) 18
4 .24" (6 mm) 21

As U can see OO is a load of 33 Cal balls. The question is, will 33Cal lead balls kill a buck if hit in the lunges. The question should be, will I be able to hit a buck in the lunges at 50 yrds. with OO.
Based on your pattern tests, what do you think?

Use a more open choke, especially with the larger sizes of buckshot...If you pinch them down too much, they spray and don't pattern...

I know I've posted it on other threads, but for turkeys, I'm using the rib mounted Tru-Glo Tru-Point Xtreme sights, a Primos Tightwad choke, and Winchester Supreme HV Turkey 3 1/2" 5 shot. For Coyotes, I slap on the B-square mount with the Tru-Glo Red Dot sight, then swap the choke to either a Carlson's Dead Coyote (new to me) with either Carlsons Dead Coyote 3 1/2" Bismuth T shot, or Winchester Supreme HD Coyote 3" Bismuth BB shot, or a Light Modified (Benelli) with Winchester 3" Super-X 00 buckshot (same load I've been using for over 15yrs). I've mixed in a few 3 1/2" 00buck's in the last few years as well.

Again, the whole change takes about 5min, and I have fantastic range for either coyotes OR turkeys, with the ability to swap "zero" quickly and effortlessly between my two chosen loads.