Having a hard time deciding on caliber.....
 

So the rifle decision is out of the way......

I'm going to have Mr. Forbes build me a left hand NULA model 24 with a 24" barrel for my deer/hogs/ect. rifle. Should be about 6 1/4 to 6 1/2lbs. with scope.

Not going "exotic" with the caliber. It will either be a .270 Win., .280 Rem., or .30-06.

Just to weed out some of the comments I know I'll get......

I know all 3 calibers are fantastic for what I want. They all offer me enough available factory loads to take care of what I want, and I hope to start reloading again someday soon.

I know that no deer or hog will be able to tell the difference when shot with any of the 3 if I put the bullet where it's supposed to go.

Honestly, it's the fact that all 3 are so good that makes the decision even harder.

Let's pretend I don't own a single centerfire rifle and this will be my "do it all" rifle. I'm not really worried about the "what if elk or moose come into play one day", as I would prefer to have something larger than all three of these calibers for that (even though they all would suffice in a pinch).

I've asked a few individuals on this forum for their opinions, and I thought I would open the question up to everyone for some input.

I'm sure many of you at some point faced the same decision between these calibers, so I would like to know what made you folks pick what you did.

thanks,

SCHOOLCRAFT

Schoolcraft,

Obviously, you're insane for starting another 270/30-06 thread (I wonder how many there are in the world). I will give you praise for providing the answer to your question though. You know deep down that what you REALLY want is a 280.

Let's be honest, you'll have a harder time finding bullets that don't work than ones that do. The 280 just sets the others gently aside in the debate, because the bullets still perform just as well, though the BCs are often superior. You might as well take that extra little edge for having fun at long range. Plus, 280s are cool. Who wants a 270? Yikes. And a 30-06? That's like saying you wish you were working in a cubicle, listening to a recorded political debate on your cassette walkman. I know a guy with a 270 AND a 30-06. Unbelievable. And to think, he's one of my best friends!! You better watch out. Somebody you know could have both of those as well.

;) ;) Enjoy your new 280!!

Almost seems like a shame to have a gun built like that, only to have it chambered in such "plain Jane" cartridges, and long action to boot. I suppose the 280 is the least plain out of the bunch, but why get a light gun in long action?

If it were me I'd go with another cartridge just to make the gun a little more unique. Also, I'd go with a short action. I reload, so I'm not worried about running to the store hoping to find ammo the day before the season.

Maybe 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 Swede, 7x57? Just sayin.

30.06 I've owned one killed some whitetails with it no complants.But in all honesty the 270 & 280 also have good reputations and loyal fans of the two calibers.

In a 6 1/2 lb rifle any one of those calibers are going to have a bit of recoil.Might even feel like more recoil than your 300mag.But if recoil doesn't bother you then that's not a factor.

Just some food for thought...... did you consider calibers like the 25.06 , 260 or 7mm08?..........good luck with your decision.

.280, Jack O'Connor would be proud...

He killed plenty of elk and several moose with a .270...In his later years when Jim Carmichael was also working for Outdoor Life Jim asked Jack a similiar question...Jim actually was considering a .280 but told Jack he was going with a .270...Jack told him not to do it, "Go with a .280, it's a better caliber"...

My brother has owned one since the mid 80s, does a dang good job...He has killed our deer and bear with but also takes it to Canada and Texas on his hunts there as well...

I have only deer hunted with a .30-06. First a Ruger bolt action and now a Browning BAR semi-auto. I must say, every deer I have hit right with it has dropped in its tracks. Several deer that were hit less than ideal have not run out of sight. Only 1 deer got out of sight and he didn't go far. I love the gun and the caliber. But like I said, I have only ever used a .30-06 so I can't say what the other calibers would do. I do know that with a .30-06, you will not be under gunned for any animal in North America.

Curious why you would build an Ultra Light rifle on a long action ? .280 Remington

I guess I don't have a truly fantastic answer as to why I want a long action in an ultra light rifle.

The primary place that I hunt is only 7 minutes drive from my house, so I go there A LOT. Probably 3-4 times a week either checking game camera pics or sitting in the evenings looking for hogs to come out (we have tons of them).
I guess I think that the light weigh of the rifle would make it very handy to tote around with me when I go down there.
As far as the long action, it has more to do with the confidence I have in the .270,.280,.30-06 line of calibers. I've never owned a short action caliber, therefore never really had a chance to fall in love with them. I did consider a 7mm-08 in a 22" barrel NULA.
I'm sure it would be a sweet rig....but I still lean towards the long action calibers.
Also, being left handed, it's impossible to find what I want in a factory rifle.

Here's my mode of thinking so far........

If this is going to be my "do everything" rifle, the .30-06 make quite a bit of sense to me simply because I hunt hogs year round and some of those jokers get upwards of 400lbs and are tough. Being able to shoot a stout 180gr. if wanted seems like an advantage. My ONLY concern about the .30-06 is what the recoil might be like in a 6 1/4lb. total weight rifle. The 8 1/4lb. .300 Win. Mag. I have now does not bother me, but less recoil wouldn't hurt my feelings any.

But......the last 400lb. hog I took was with a .270 Win. with 130gr. Hornady Interbonds. Shot through the chest, it ran 35 yards and tumbled. Left a blood trail that Ray Charles could have followed. The bullet did not exit though, which is a BIG plus when having to track hogs after the shot. I have a feeling that a 130gr. TSX or 150gr. NP would have punched through.

The .280 Rem? I simply have no experience with it. I don't think I have EVER heard or read a single negative comment about the round. Just have no hands on experience with it.

I say go with a .22 Hornet. It is all the gun you will ever need, even on elk with a 400 yard head shot.

And, I kid. Of the calibers that you have listed, and I will reply as to the questions that you have asked rather than ask why not another, I would say the .280. I don't have one, and do have a .270 that gets some deer action and has dropped every one she has shot right on the spot, but I would love to have a .280. Funds won't allow a new rifle in the near future, and I am not willing to part with any of the ones that I have in order to get one.

You won't, as you said, be disappointed in any one of the calibers, but if it were me and not you, I know I'd be happiest with a new .280.

As for why build a light weight, long action rifle? Well, that is simple...you know what calibers you have narrowed it down to and you want a light weight rig. It's just that simple.

"Obviously, you're insane for starting another 270/30-06 thread (I wonder how many there are in the world)."

True.....

"Who wants a 270? Yikes. And a 30-06? That's like saying you wish you were working in a cubicle, listening to a recorded political debate on your cassette walkman.

LOL.....Big Z....I love reading your posts.

Of the three there is no doubt in my mind, 280 Rem. What I think might be as good or better on a long action is a 6.5x06. I have one and it is super. You said your gonna get back into reloading so it would work fine. And of course for deer and hogs, why look past the 25-06? For deer and hogs I can't see any advantage of cartridges having heavier bullet's.

If all else fails, get a 50BMG, you'll need a long action for it!:arms:

You know you want that model 20 I think it is with a .284win....short action...

How popular is the 280rem? the 270 and 30-06 hugely popular....

ie if you decide the 280rem, then why not get the 284win?

the 280ackley improved is also an option.

god there are so many options! haha. the 7mm-08 will kill a deer, but if you go short action, then why not get a 270wsm or 7mm wsm or 300wsm? or 284win?

btw IMO the 270 is a 130gr bullet, the 30-06 is a 165/180, so that may help decide things, of course then you may want the 280 with 140's 160's...haha.

As soon as you say "everything gun", you know the .30-06 is going to offer you more choices of factory ammunition.

However, if you can use a 139gr. to 175gr. bullet to hunt everything you had in mind; you may want to look at a 7MM Rem Mag as well.


All the best with your decision.


BTW - I think you are doing the right thing (you'll get far more use from this new build) !

Well, I ruled ONE of the 3 choices out.......the .30-06.

Why? Well, one of the reasons I'm looking at these 3 calibers is to have something not as "excessive for it's intended use" as my current .300 Win. Mag.

If found a really good recoil calculator that someone posted on another thread and pluged in some comparisons between the recoil of my .300 Win. @ 8 1/4lbs. with a 180gr. load VS. the .30-06 @ 6 1/4lbs. with a 165gr. load.

Guess what??? The recoil velocity and ft/lbs. of recoil are virtually identical. So, not that the lightweight .30-06 recoil would really bother me, but if I'm going to put up with a rifle that kicks like a .300 Win. Mag.........it might as well BE a .300 Win. Mag.

Now, when I compare my Winny to a 130gr. .270 @ 3150fps or a 140gr. .280 @ 3100fps, then the jab at the shoulder takes a noticable plunge.

RECOIL COMPARISON

.300 Win. Mag. 180gr. @ 3050 fps = 26.80 ft/lbs @ 14.46 fps
(out of my 8 1/4lb rifle)

.30-06 165gr. @ 2900 = 25.17 ft/lbs @ 16.10 fps
(out of a 6 1/4lb rifle)

.280 145gr. @ 2975 fps. = 20.99 ft/lbs @ 14.71 fps
(out of a 6 1/4lb rifle)

.270 130gr. @ 3150 fps. = 19.72 ft/lbs. @ 14.26 fps.
(out of a 6 1/4lb rifle)

Notice how the 165gr. or the 180gr. in the 06' jumps the recoil velocity up over the .300 Win.?

If the .280 with a 140gr. was pushed to around 3100 fps., the numbers would rise a tad. Probably just about in between the .270 and the .30-06.

So it looks like I'll be choosing between the .270 Win. and .280 Rem.

School,

That's a no brainer!
Since you don't reload - Get the 270!!!

It sounds like this decision is more about (perceived) recoil, than the right rifle/caliber/cartridge/bullet for the job at hand.


Hunting rifle right, not a bench shooting gun...............food for thought ??

Sheridan,

That's a very good point........Most definitly a HUNTING rifle.

Well played Sir!

Really too bad you have no experience with a 7mm-08, it's made to order in a lighter rifle...The same brother that bought the .280 also bought a 7mm-08 at the same time, in a Model 7...It's his woods rifle, that being said, he's made some pretty impressive shots down a power line we have...When he drags up a deer, you can't tell which did the killing...He shoots the CoreLokts in both...

The big advantages of the 7mm-08, reduced recoil in lighter rifles and short action...Someone that doesn't reload the .280 would never know the difference between the 7mm-08 and a .280...

If you reload i recommend the 280 AI, you can load it light to 280 power or hotter and get 7mm mag power with a 140gr, 150g or 160gr bullet. A 280 AI can get 3222fps with IMR 4831 and a 140grbullet. A 270 win can't get close to that.

I picked up a 280 last year after wanting one forever. I'm glad I did as it is just plain awesome. It has become my go to rifle. Good luck

I still say go with a 280, of the choices listed. Nice selection of bullets, and its not the same vanilla caliber that every realtree outdoor fashion bug shoots. Its still available, and if you reload, you wont have a problem finding brass, or bullets. In reality, bullets for the 270, 280(7mm), and '06 are all capable of killing deer or elk, no matter what some hunting magazine will feed you. Its one of those things, you must use common sense on. If you only went off numbers, a bullet for the 45/70 couldnt kill a fox. Most of know that is far from true. To argue over who's SD and BC is better, well we are all splitting hairs,lol.

As for penetration and blood trails, I prefer full penetration and an exit. 2 holes is always better then one, and with the right gun, the exit hole bleeds better then the entry hole. Honestly though, I dont know first hand. My 7mm mag blows thru both sides, leaves half the blood of the deer on the backside on the ground, and a dead deer laying there, every time. Piggys are a different breed, and honestly, if you are dealing with 400lb boars, I prefer something that makes a bigger hole and penetrates, over the small caliber guns. 45/70, or 375H&H comes to mind. Hits hard, puts holes thru them, and helps take the fight out, even with a 'plate, under their hide.

I still stand by my other posts, in that going with such a light gun, if you are physically able, is just putting you thru more recoil then needed for an '06 sized gun. Get a standard hunting weight rifle, unless you are hunting goats, and not worry so much about these details. Thats time you could be spending scouting, or hunting, or shooting at the range!

.270 is hard to beat.

.280 AI if you want to go 7mm on a long action, if short action then 7mm-08.

Was just wandering around Kimber's website...

they chamber the montana in .25-06, 270win, 280AI, 30-06 all at about 5lbs-10oz!
and the .308 class cartridges at 5lbs-2oz!

has me curious...I've heard good and bad things about kimber's though...

"I've heard good and bad things about kimber's though..." Salukipv1


Me too, but don't tell Kimber owners that ! LOL

Not even consider a 308? It's the do everything caliber and ammo is plentiful and cheap.

About Kimbers....yes, they do make some wonderfully light and trim rifles. Their owners are very loyal and quick to defend their rifle.
Having dealt with Hill Country Rifles lately, I have this to say about my limited experience with them...Hill Country can "accurize" your rifle and give you a sub 1 MOA guarentee. Most accurized rifles I've seen fall closer to 1/2 MOA. There are only a handfull of rifles that HCR won't give a sub MOA guarentee to, and Kimber is one of them.
The last Kimber Montana I picked up felt like it was going to fall apart in my hands. Every part of it rattled. Very dissapointing.

As to the. 308 question (or all other short action suggestions)...I'm sure they're all fantastic. Hell, I remember ready SEVERAL articles about how the 7mm-08 was considered the ULTIMATE whitetail deer round.
I just grew up shooting the 06' family of cartrides and later added in the 7 mags and 300 mags. I guess I'm just more confident in them, and a lot of that has to do with my lack of hunting experience with short action calibers.

The 308 caliber is another short cartridge option. The 7mm08 and 243 are necked down versions of the 308 after all.

Trust me, if all you want to hunt is everything under the size of an elk, all three of those calibers, as well as what you listed, are perfectly capable of taking your game.

My father started out using a 30-06 after he got out of the military in the early 70s. Yeah, for a change he used a .44 mag rifle, but the 30-06 was his primary rifle. He took many deer with the gun, and then moved to a .270 about 15 years ago. He made the change from his heavy semi-auto 30-06 to a lighter bolt action .270 and took many deer with his A-Bolt.

Then, because he wanted a lighter kicking gun, and new backup rifle, he bought a .243 that he made his primary gun last year. The buck he shot last year was just as dead with a shot from the .243 as with a round from the other two rifles he's used.

If you are not worried about bigger game, then you can choose from such a wide variety of calibers that are honestly equally good for taking most North American game it's not even funny.

Of the three calibers you are considering, I'd go .270 if you don't reload your own ammo. If you reload then go with the .280. The one nice thing about some calibers is that if you forget/lose your ammo then you can to any store that sells ammunition and be back in the woods in relatively no time. Which is a downside of the .280 at this time being not as popular as some other cartridges.

Go with the 280.

BLASPHEMY! ;)

But I do agree with your comments on the 30-06 LOL