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Elk / Whitetail combo rifle

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Elk / Whitetail combo rifle

Old 11-08-2011, 09:27 AM
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: SE Wisc
Posts: 677

308 Win, 165gr bullets, Stainless rifle with syn stock, Burris Fullfield II 3x9 scope, leather sling and go!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have all kinds of rifles and this one just does it all.

it's all you need for both species, any kind of weather, and plenty of power. (you could also substitute the 308 for the 30.06 here) but they are so close why take the extra recoil if its not necessary...
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:13 AM
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,357

A .30-06 shooting 180 grain Remington CoreLokt bullets and a 4x scope (or a 3.5-10x 40 mm scope) will work fine. Frankly, if you use a rifle such as this one, other factors are going to be more influential over whether you kill an elk or don't kill an elk. Can you find elk? Can you get close to the elk (close meaning can you approach the elk from the 1/2 mile to mile distance at which you first spot them to within whatever range you are capable of shooting at)? Can you shoot straight and accurate when you get to the elk? My guess is that the success of many more elk hunts hinge on these first three questions than what cartridge you use.

Of course other cartridges work also. You could use a .338 winchester magnum for deer hunting and elk hunting. More expense for cartridges. More recoil. Would it work? More than likely. Are you going to be super accurate with the .338 win mag? are you going to shoot hundreds of rounds at the range practicing with the .338 win mag? Probably not. But if you get within 200 yards of an elk and you just shoot 4 MOA accuracy, you should be able to land a first killing shot on the elk. Again, the trick is getting in a position to shoot the elk -- finding elk and then closing in on the elk in a timely manner. A lot of cartridges will work. Probably not a .22 LR. Probably not a .30-30. But that still leaves a lot of viable candidates -- and the .30-06 is a pretty good candidate. Lots of elk are killed every year with .30-06.

Taking a back-up on a distant hunt is a good idea, one someone mentioned above.
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:17 AM
Fork Horn
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 136

Originally Posted by Nomercy448
I know Fritz and CLD covered this already, but just to throw in my "moral support", 4.5-14x isn't bad, especially if you consider a 50mm scope. I'm a big fan of 4.5-14x or 4-16x scopes, but I actually tend to use higher magnification scopes, 5-22x, 6-18x, 6-24x, 6.5-20x... (One of my favorite scopes is a Bushnell Elite 6500 4.5-30x50mm. It's dang hard to beat a scope that will cover you from 20yrds clear out to 1000yrds!)

In Kansas, on any given day I might start the morning hunting in timber where visibility is limited (not just shots, but total line of sight) to under 50yrds, and then in the same afternoon be sitting over pasture or row crops with a 3 mile flat line of sight (obviously not shooting quite THAT far). Having a diverse scope and rifle rig is critical.

Having midrange magnification scopes like 4-16x or 4.5-14x scopes gives you a lot more at the top end, but still has a low enough bottom. Relatively speaking, a 3-9x40mm (the standard by which all hunting scopes are measured) usually has a FOV at 100yrds of about 30-35ft on 3x, whereas a 4.5-14x50 will usually have a FOV at 100 of 20-25ft. At 20yrds then, we're talking about a FOV of 6-7ft for the 3-9x40, and 4-5ft for the 4.5-14x50mm... Either way, both are pretty dang small FOV, and a 4ft long by 3ft tall (at the head) deer will basically fill the FOV for either. Finding the deer in the scope will be hard for either one.

But on the flip side, what's the difference at 300yrds? A 3-9x40mm will have a 10ft FOV at 9x at 100yrds, so then at 250yrds, it has a FOV of 30ft on 9x. A 4.5-14x will have an FOV at 100yrds of about 6.5ft at 14x, which turns into 19.5ft at 300yrds. If a deer is 3ft long, he'll make up 1/10th of the FOV in the 3-9x40, whereas he'll make up 1/6 of the FOV in the 4.5-14x50mm.

I know it seems like just a bunch of numbers, but when you consider your shot placement, for example how large a 6" vital zone will appear in the scope, things really change. 6" out of a 30ft FOV only allows a 0.8% margin for error (6" out of 30ft is 1.67%, so +/- 0.83%)! With the 4.5-14x50mm, you're looking at 1.3% margin for error (6" out of 19.5ft is 2.6%, or +/- 1.3%). So my allowable error is 57% greater for the 4.5-14x50.

Just for kicks, 300yrds on a 6" vitals is about 1.8% margin for error with a 5-22x56mm or 2.7% for 8-32x56mm. FOV at 30yrds is 4ft for an 8-32x56, and 5ft for a 5-22x56mm (vs 6ft 30yrd FOV and 0.83% margin for error for a 3-9x40mm). Ultimately, the close range challenge is about the same, but the long range margin for error gets improved 2-3 fold!

Guys get way too caught up on "anything above 3-9x is too much scope", but the numbers don't lie, 3x vs 4.5x doesn't really make much difference in the short range game, but the margin for error at long range makes a HUGE difference. For me, the moral of the story is that I'm hard pressed to find a negative aspect of a high mag scope, even for short range shooting, but the benefits at long range (or even mid range for precise shot placement) are HUGE.
In response to your comment on "too much scope", I agree.

I have a 3.5 x 10 x 50 on my slug gun. Yes, it is big. However, there have been times that, in the woods, I have had to shoot between 2 trees because that was where the vitals were and the chance was about to be lost. I have been able to make those shots because, I could see the target area clearly. Even at 40-60 yards, extra power can create a makeable shot.
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:18 AM
Nontypical Buck
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,482

It sounds like you are on the right track. A Model 70 in .308 or .270 should work just fine. I would go with the cartridge that you prefer, because I don't think there is going to be a major difference between the 2 when using premium bullets. The .270 is a little flatter-shooting for the long shots, but gives up some bullet weight and diameter as a trade-off. Flip a coin
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Old 11-12-2011, 07:30 AM
Fork Horn
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: US South
Posts: 444

Originally Posted by jerry d
Well here's my situation,i'm going to be retiring soon at the ripe old age of 54.I'll be moving to Tennessee so once i get settled in i what to do an elk hunt out west.It will an outfitted hunt.So because of the price of hunts i might only be able a few hunts in my lifetime or maybe only one.So i'm not going to go out and buy a dedicated elk rifle.

I own 2 centerfire rifles,a rem.700 in 243win. and a marlin336 in .35rem.But god willing i plan on doing plenty of whitetail hunting. So what would you guys suggest as a rifle to be used primarily as deer gun but also capable of taking an elk? My first thoughts were a 308 or a 270 either gun will most likely be a winchester model70.
OK Jerry,

Given your situation and with the rifles you already have,
Here's my 2-cents:

1) I like your first thoughts on the Winchester M70!

2) I also like first thoughts on the 308 and 270 - But, if me, in your situation and wants - I'd get it in a 30-06.

3) Take the M70 30-06 for any Elk hunts and carry that 35 Rem as the back-up rifle.

4) Once you have the experience of the first hunt, reconsider the possibility of adding another rifle.
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Old 11-12-2011, 02:13 PM
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,143

Yup i know what you're saying Ray. The reason i didn't mention the 06 is because i used to own one and just wanted to try something a little different.
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Old 11-13-2011, 03:52 AM
Fork Horn
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: US South
Posts: 444

Originally Posted by jerry d
Yup i know what you're saying Ray. The reason i didn't mention the 06 is because i used to own one and just wanted to try something a little different.
LOL - Jerry, The 30=06 ain't broke!
Don't try to fix something that's worked for over 100 years.
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