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Some things I've learned the hard/expensive way....

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Some things I've learned the hard/expensive way....

Old 10-25-2011, 06:57 AM
  #11  
Fork Horn
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Colorado,

I know it must get old seeing all the magnum bashing threads. It honestly was not my intent to come across as "bashing" magnums. They MOST DEFINITLY have their place. Even with just whitetail deer.....If I hunted in South Texas looking down LONG senderos out of a elevated box stand, a 7mm. Rem. Mag. or .300 Win. or .300 RUM would be awesome for the TRULY long shots. On our smaller Texas deer, a good .25-06, .270, .280, or .30-06 would be sufficient for the ranges that I have any business shooting.
You're more the exception than the rule Colorado. MOST folks can't go grab a .300 RUM off the shelf a be proficient with it. I guess my point originally was that many hunters go out with too much gun and not enough experience with it.
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:03 AM
  #12  
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Some of what you say holds merit schoolcraft. I think that the problem with bad shots is confined to the magnum world, like alot of people try to pin it on, its all calibers. Too many guys, and I know a bunch from wisconsin like this, shoot maybe four rounds all year, then go out and whine, when they miss a deer at 50 yards, or they wound one, and suddenly the 308 is garbage, wont put deer down(yes I heard this from a gunshop). Then the poor shooter buys a 300 mag, and throws a cheap scope, and cheap ammo in it. Then, people jump on the bash the mags bandwagon. There isnt a thing wrong with magnums, and it seems the ones who bash them the most are either armchair gun experts, or those who are recoil intolerant. I had a crusty old man at Sportmans warehouse(employee) here in town tell me, dont need anything bigger then an '06. I laughed and told him, you dont need anything bigger then a 30/30 if you can actually shoot. He didnt like that. I still prefer my magnums, and I shoot them alot, and shoot them well. I blow ballistic tips for plinking, but stick to accubonds or partitions for hunting. IMO, if you are hunting with lower velocity standard calibers, the regular ammo is fine. When you get up in speed, then the choice of bullet becomes important. My 30/30 gets fed cheap stuff. The '06, regular bullets or ballistic tips. The 45/70 gets hornady flatpoints. The rest get better bullets. After learning about junk scopes, all I run is good glass. It may not be swaro, but its not simmons either. I once heard someone say, spend as much on glass as you do on the rifle. I wouldnt set that in stone, but I fail to see the sense in buying a $700 rifle, and throwing a $59 wally world scope on it. If you cant at least put a $400 piece of glass on it, get a cheaper gun and put better glass on it, and practice. There is sound reason why I got the cherry spots to sit, while everyone else did the deer drives thru the blackberries up north. I had a gun big enough to reach out and touch someone, I was the best shot, and everything I touched went flop.
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:20 AM
  #13  
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Optics, optics, optics. I read somewhere that most hunter are "Over magnified and under scoped".
I agree with this up to a point. I do believe that many people are over magnified. I collect and shoot military surplus rifles. Hunt with them at times also. And it's pretty amazing how far out you can keep a bullet inside a circle the size of deers vitals using just open sights. With practice 200 yards is no major feet. That being the case I don't really see the need for more than a 3x9 power scope on a rifle. I can shoot very accurately way out there with a straight 6 power scope.

Where do I disagree? I don't think you need to go all the way up to a Swarovski to get all the scope the average person needs to fill their needs. In fact I think that out around the 500 dollar mark you start to hit a point of seriously diminishing return on your investment. Is a Swarovski a better scope than others in the 500 to 550 dollar range? Yep, but there really isn't anything I can do with it from a hunting standpoint here that I can't do with a 500 dollar Leupold or Zeiss. I can see to shoot well past legal shooting light with these scopes. They don't fog up. They are clear. They hold zero. That being the case I just can't justify making the jump in price up to a Swarovski. But if anyone wanted to give me one to prove me wrong I am an open minded soul. LOL!
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:31 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by schoolcraft
It's funny how this hobby/passion of mine teaches me lessons. Unfortunately, it's usually the hard/expensive way! LOL!
All the fun stuff is expensive!!

1. Caliber.... For most of the hunting the average Joe will be doing, the caliber that you take a deer or hog with does NOT have to say "MAGNUM" after it. It amazes me how the advertising that companies do pushes us to think that even though the XYZ caliber may be....ok....for deer hunting, the new .300 Wiz Bang Boomerslammer would be SO much better for shooting past 500 yards. (No offense meant Ridge Runner...you're most definitly NOT an average Joe!) I most certainly DO think magnums have their place in hunting big boned critters like elk and larger or for particular LONG range deer hunting situations, but I wounder how many animals have been wounded from a weekend warrior who shoots a couple times a year with his Boomerslammer????
I pretty much agree, for the average hunter shooting under 300yrds hunting, deer, hogs, coyotes, black bears, moose and even elk (how many have been killed with 30-30's?). A magnum isn't needed, but if someone wants one and CAN shoot one well then go for it.

2. Bullet construction.......At a recent trip to the rifle range and talking with a couple guys there, I ran into more than one fella' that was shooting a multi thousand dollar custom rifle with a $1,500 plus scope on it and shooting blue box federal or corlokt ammo. Not that there's anything wrong with the cheap stuff, but why would you skimp on the ONLY piece of your hunting setup that will actually put your target down? I find myself now seeing how a smaller caliber with a quality constructed bullet is superior to a big boomer shooting a bullet likely to come apart during penetration. Example: I would now be much more confident with a shot at a big bodied deer with a .25-06 or .270 loaded with Accubonds, Partitions, or TSX's (or something similar) than my current .300 Win. Mag. with cheaply constructed bullets.
What makes a bullet a premium bullet? Price? Construction? Materials used? BC? Color of the tip? Would you rather shoot cheaper bullets that shot sub-moa all day long and you had faith in hitting the target with, or expensive "premium" ammo that you can barely hit a pie plate with at 300yrds?

3. Optics, optics, optics. I read somewhere that most hunter are "Over magnified and under scoped". Recently having the opportunity to have a Swarovski scope on my rifle, I can't help but agree. Not to say there aren't quality optics out there that don't cost a grand or more, but you sure do get what you pay for 99% of the time with optics. I always wondered how these guys I read about were taking 200-300 yard shots with scopes using "moderate" magnification. Well, now I know.
Agreed, not everyone needs a Swaro but something better then a Wal-Mart or Big5 special is worth A LOT out in the field!!

4. This is what I think is the absolute most important thing we can pass down to new or young hunters....SHOT PLACEMENT!
This may seem like such a obvious thing, but I know there are many youngsters or new hunters who are simply told to "shoot behind the shoulder". On a broadside shot...sure....but what about if the animal is quartering to or away?
See #2


GO RANGERS!!!!!
WOOOOHOOOO...Napoli!!!
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:47 PM
  #15  
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I guess it just goes to show folks that the lessons that I'VE learned might only apply to someone else a little or not at all.

It's very cool to have some many people with different opinions and experiences come together in one big place to share their passion for hunting/firearms/reloading/ect.

Even if we sometimes have to "agree to disagree".


GO RANGERS!!!!!!!



SCHOOLCRAFT
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Old 10-25-2011, 02:29 PM
  #16  
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I shoot those blue box 270win-130gr, they group the best in my rifle, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a muley out to 500yds with that load.

No need for a super premium bullet when a good quality bullet is being used, ie I don't need a TSX for deer with my 270 when a core lokt will get the job done well.

I think using the correct bullet becomes much more important when you're marginalizing the cartridge/game being hunted. ie an elk with a 270 I'd much rather have a TSX than a blue box federals, but then again a blue box 300win.mag federal would be perfectly fine probably.

Magnum-itus does exist I think, but so does shooting tiny/dinky cartridges for game too big. Doesn't take a 300mag to kill a deer at 200yds, but I wouldn't go on a brown bear hunt with a 270 either.

Sometimes guys just have a favorite rifle/cartridge, my cousin would probably take his 375H&H on every future hunt if he could.
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Old 10-25-2011, 02:40 PM
  #17  
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PS- I do think, plan for the worst shot, ie that trophy bull elk on the last day of the guided hunt at 400yds 1/4 away,

what do you want to have in your hand? a 270win w/130gr or that 340wby with 225gr TSX?

go on a deer hunt with a 270, and you'll have few arguments, just as an elk hunt with a 300mag.

I do think I'd rather be over gunned than under gunned, but at the same time realizing I don't need to be the macho man in camp with the biggest magnum making fun of other deer hunters carrying the wimpy 270...haha.
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Old 10-25-2011, 04:03 PM
  #18  
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I say shoot whatever you are comfortable with. The problem I see is guys buying magnums to compensate for marginal shooting ability, but the flinch they develope deteriorates their shooting further. For deer sized game, why does the 300 Win Mag or 7mm have to be the gun of choice? I have a 257 Weatherby Mag that is pleasant to shoot (although not on the wallet), and I don't think anyone will disparage the ballistics on that one. I reserve it for hunts out West, as most of my shots are within 50 yards at home, and my 30-30 or 30-06 do just fine. Shoot whatever you are willing to put the range time in on. (And I do work with a fellow who hunts elk with a 300 RUM, and he is the best marksman I know, capable of killing elk out to 700 yards. I would never tell him he was over-gunned. Unfortunately, some are.)
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Old 10-25-2011, 05:21 PM
  #19  
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What have you guys bought that seemed like greatest thing to have/use or bought because it was on tv and ended up being a waste of money?

For me it was Nikon scopes, i got 3 Nikon Buckmasters w/ SF and a Nikon Monarch. None of them will shoot the box or return to zero. I didn't realize how bad they were till i tried to shoot at a 300yd target and adjust for my drop rate and it didn't move from my 100yd zero then jumped 6" over the 10 ring with only 1" more elevation added to it.
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:28 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by stapher1
For me it was Nikon scopes, i got 3 Nikon Buckmasters w/ SF and a Nikon Monarch. None of them will shoot the box or return to zero.
Nikon scopes just suck. I'd probably give you a couple hundred bucks for all of them. I don't really need them but I would do it to help you out.
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