The .243 Winchester
 

Generally speaking i consider this caliber a varmit and whitetail cartridge.My question is how many of you have shot larger game { elk,moose,black bear,caribou }Than the cartridge was intented for?

What was the circumstances,where you hunting whitetails or mulies and an elk present a good opportunity. Is it the calibers you prefer to hunt with.Are you recoil adverse and only feel comfortable shooting a light caliber?

The reason i'm asking is cause i've read more than one thread on this website where guys and girls have killed "out of class" game with the .243.

Not sure who decides what is out of class and what isn't but a .243 works just fine for black bears...I've killed several when they were eating our peanuts...The reason??? It's what I had in the truck when I spotted them...

I don't consider the .243 a light caliber, it's worked well for me on whitetalis for over 30 years...

The trick to clean kills is putting the bullet where it's suppose to be put...

The only complaints I hear on a .243 is from those who haven't killed a few dozen deer with them so they don't know what it is capable of...

I'm not recoil shy, I'm the guy others bring their guns to when they won't shoot straight...The guys that are recoil shy are the ones shooting guns too big for the class game they are shooting... :)

YUP! It doesn't matter if your shooting a .223 or a .338 Ultra, hit the animal in the kill zone and it will go down. :s4:

You hit the nail on the head when you said that you considered it a varmint and whitetail cartridge. Can you kill a bear with it? Yep. Can you kill an elk with it? Yep. Is it the best choice for a bear or an elk? Nope.

This argument is getting so old. Can I kill a bear with a 22.250. Hell ya! What do you think about a .243 for elk? It's the best ever.

Think of it this way....Would you want a .243, as the weapon in your hand, with a world class bull at 450 yards? Probably not.

Would you want a .243, with a pissed off black bear, charging your arse. Probably not.

Will a .243 work for an elk hunt for a kid, woman or even a grown man? Yes it will if everything goes right and the hunter is very patient and takes the right shot. But your shots would be limited to much shorter than realistic distances. Same goes for a bear hunt.

Just because it works, does not mean it's a wise or the best choice. We all know that everything goes as planned and there are never any surprizes when we are out hunting.

I personally never used a .243 for anything. But I do know a local guy that has taken a ton of elk, deer and bear with one. I guess he never felt the need to question or change up to a larger caliber. I would not be scared to use it. Shot placement is everything.

Just like everyone has already said; Shot placement is key.

-South

"Yes it will if everything goes right and the hunter is very patient and takes the right shot. "

Wrong attitude. I don't care if you are using a 22 or a 50 bmg. If you aren't taking a good clean kill shot, then you shouldn't be taking the shot. The .243 is a great gun for the bigger game, as are most high powered rifles. The fact that the .243 is the most popular hunting cartridge in Europe for their big game animals such as Moose and Stag seems to constantly be over looked.

On any animal shot placement is key. It's been said at least a thousand times when talking about this gun or that gun, but it is the rock solid truth. I took a nice bull elk, a nice mulie and a decent black bear last fall with my single shot .243. I hunt with it because i choose to hunt with it. I hunted with the 30'06 for over 30 years and have just last year dropped down to the 243 and i love it. If you can shoot a 243 with confidence and put the shot where you want it to be, hunt with the 243.

I stand corrected. I am now reformed. The .243 is the best elk, bear, moose, elephant, water buffalo and dragon gun ever built and I will use it from now on. Here we go again. JEEEESH!

You can bang a nail into a board with a wench....................I prefer to use a hammer !

Of course I did forget to mention...

We don't have any big bull elk, moose, grizzlys, elephants or while I'm at it rhinos in NC...(Except for the NC Zoo and they won't let me hunt there)...

I've been around black bears my whole life, never ever had one charge me, so I feel pretty safe with my little pea shooter... :)

Never said it was the best for any critter, there are no best cartridges...You can dispute any cartridge out there...Between friends and family I've seen deer killed with just about every combo out there, little difference in ground covered with a well placed lung shot...Little difference in ground covered after the shot with gut shots as well...

What I can't figure is why would anyone care what another hunter uses??? I have total confidence when I take a shot and don't question others as to what they shoot, so who cares??? :)

Enjoy Palm Sunday....

I agree with you guys:SHOT PLACEMENT IS EVERYTHING!!! I wouldn't dedicated the .243 as an elk or moose rifle but from what i've read...and there's been plenty,if the right shot presented itself i'd take it.

I passed on quite a few nice bucks when i bowhunting because i wasn't confident with the sitituation. I know alot of guy say if you're on a once in a lifetime hunt and a world class bull steps out @ 500yds. you want to have enough gun to get the job done.Logical statement IMO.........but are you capable of shooting "enogh gun" and do you practice at that distance regularly so you can make a clean kill.

The anwer for me is NO! I've never shot my rifle over 200yds.because on LongIsland there isnt a place to do it. I would have to pass on a shot @ 500yds. because i don't have the convidence that i could make the shot. I don't care how much i spent on the hunt.I wont shoot if i'm not 100o% sure that it's a kill shot.But in short if i had an elk within 100yds. i wouldn't hesitate to take it with a .243.

I'll bet 95% of the hunters on here couldn't hit an elk at 450 yards with any centerfire rifle...

I'll bet 95% of the hunters on here wouldn't know what 450 yards looks like...

I'm glad I'm in the other 5%. If what you say is true, I feel sorry for the other 95%. However, I think you are short changing a lot of guys on here and trying to put them in the category that you fit in. Long shots in Colorado are very common. I don't usually take them but I will with the right weapon in my hand. I turned down a 385 yard shot on a nice elk this year because I was shooting a 30.06 that I had only practiced out to 250 yards with. I wouldn't hesitate to take that shot with my 300 Ultra mag.

My buddy was just here a few minutes ago, trading me a shotgun for my old bow. He was telling me how his wife shot her elk this year with a .270. Her shot placement was perfect. No exit wound. No blood trail. (fresh snow) The elk lived for 15 minutes before it expired. She decided that she wants to get a 30.06 for next years hunt.

If you want to hunt with the minimum caliber to do the job, I hope you are patient and really do wait for the right shot. There is a reason the DOW places minimum calibers on big game animals. They know if they didn't some A-hole would be hunting eik with a 22.250 and telling all of his friends how his grandpa had killed hundreds of elk with a 22lr.

The .243 is a great LITTLE round. I've used it on many deer, and even my biggest. But the biggest whitetail is altogether different than a small elk, or medium elk, or avearage bear.
I believe I could kill all these larger animals with a .243 but would opt for my 30/06 or my 8mm/06 first. I don't really own a great elk rifle, but sure wouldn't select my .243 from my rack if offered a hunt.

Given normal hunting conditions: wind blowing, cold, stiff fingers, out of breath, bulky clothes, low light, snow or rain, buck fever, 100 yards is a long way. Most of the deer and elk, especially Roosevelt Elk, that are killed every year, are shot at 100 yards or less. I know that most of mine have been. I suspect that most of the animals that are wounded and crippled are shot at from further away. Probably by someone who once hit a paper target at 300 yards, on a calm summer day, from a bench rest.

In my case this statement is true but i hunt in NY state,mostly wooded areas.

So what do you guys think, are most deer & elk shot @ 100yds. or less?

Jerry that's a good point. I have hunted places for whitetail and hogs where you couldn't get a 100 yard shot because it was so thick. In Colorado and other western states shots of several hundred yards are very common. 200 or 300 yard shots(or longer) on mulies, antelpoe and elk happen all season every season. I prefer not to hunt that way and I prefer to get as close as I can to the animal, it makes it much more fun. I have killed four elk with a rifle that were 10 to 25 yards. However, I practice as much as I can out to longer distances. My buddie has a range in the foothils that has a 16"x16" gong at 540 yards. When you can bang that gong all day long you feel prepared to take the shot even if that is not the shot you are really looking for.

I have witnessed morons that are not capable of those shots, blazing away and reloading. I have also witnesed guys that are perfectly capable of making 500 yard shots, that let the animal walk and try to get closer. I like to be prepared for anything but I will never go under gunned. It's just stupid.

I still think there is a place for .243's in elk hunting but it should be the exception, not the rule.

If you can shoot a .243 well and know where to hit an animal to put it down humanely then why not use a .243? That doesn't mean that you take a 500 yard pot shot at an elk with it, but under 200 yards, why not? I think that part of the problem is that we all read too many magazines and they are in the business of selling us on the newest and supposedly best guns and with them being all lawyered up nowdays they can't possibly tell us that a .243 is going to get the job done.

I'm sure glad I don't set limitations on myself.

No anecdotal discussion here, I've actually killed elk with the .243, and on more than one occasion.

Each shot was less than 150 yards, two of them head-on and one slightly oblique. None of the bullets exited. It was the only centerfire rifle I owned at the time.

Would I recommend it over a .30-06 (et al) for elk or caribou? No. If it were all I owned yet, would I still use it on elk? Yes.

The .243 has a love-hate relationship going with this board. It's not flashy, it's a "girl's gun", "there's a reason it's the state minimum." The posters who are most convinced tend to be those who can't relate any personal experience with a cartridge's effectiveness (I don't own a .270 or a 7mm RM, I don't have much business advising anyone one way or another how effective either of them are).

Yes, the .243 does make you think a little more about setting up your shots and about your point-of-aim. Maybe more hunters should shoot their bigger calibers like they'd have to shoot the .243?

This comment responds to one of the questions above. From what I've been able to deduce, the statement that 95% of hunters cannot hit an elk in the vitals at 450 yards would be entirely true. I would be willing to bet that I could NOT put a first shot into a vital sized target at 450 yards, even if some other shooter got my rifle sighted in for 450 yards. I have read that seasoned guides say things like 80% of their hunters can hit vitals at 100 yards; 30% can hit vitals at 200 yards; maybe 10% can hit vitals at 300 yards. Actually, it might be even worse than this. Any guides out there willing to make any generalizations on the marksmanship of your clients?

My guess is that many hunters only shoot their guns at game animals during the hunting season -- no pre-season shooting range work. Of those who shoot their guns at paper, how many of these shoot more than enought to deem their rifles sighted in? How many shoot a box of cartridges a year? How many shoot five boxes of cartridges a year? How many shoot at paper located more than 100 yards away?

I live in a suburb north of Dallas. I know of two shooting ranges. Both are about 50 miles away. I don't go there to shoot very often. I'll go out probably in June or July to see how my .30-06 rifles are shooting. If they are sighted in, I probably won't make the 50 mile drive again until late September to see if they are still shooting where they are supposed to and to confirm the rifles are still OK. Sure, low probability of any mechanical difficulties, but I'ld rather know a couple or three weeks before elk season rather than when sighting in two days before the season opens out in Colorado.

I'm not a trophy hunter. My usual shooting takes places at moderate distances. I took my 2009 elk at well under 100 yards, maybe at about 50 yards. I've shot deer at 15 yards, 25 yards, 140 yards. I shot a pronghorn antelope at 240 yards from a prone shooting position. Under these circumstances I do not feel the need to practice shooting at extended ranges. If the animal is too far away, I don't shoot, I try to move closer, or I wait to encounter another animal. When you aren't hunting for trophies you can afford to pass on an out-of-range animal.

I think a .243 ought to be used for deer and pronghorn antelope and varmints. If you are going after elk or bear you probably are wise to use a bigger gun. But that is only my opinion. Also, if all you have is a .243, that might change the picture a bit. For example, when I'm shooting a cow elk at 40 yards in October, probably a .243 would work . . . but I've got a couple of .30-06 rifles so I'll use one of those instead. I'll take my .243 Winchester featherweight and/or my .25-06 -- both of which I love dearly -- when I'm out pronghorn hunting or deer hunting and then leave the .30-06 at home.

There is a range right outside of Meeker Colorado. I go there every year before our elk hunt and sometimes I just stop in during the hunt. I have made friends with a guy up there I call Preacher.(some of you guys may know him) He is just a good old dude and has been giving me advice on hunting elk since my very first hunt some upteen years ago.

At the range they have a gong at 300 yards. I have yet to see someone set out to ring that gong and not hit it. The guys at the range recommend every hunter to be able to hit it before they leave the range. I have never witnessed anyone having a problem doing so. I'm sure there are some that have a problem but most don't. I have been going there for more than 15 years.

450 yards is a lot different than 300. We all know 300 is the magic mark where most bullets start to drop like rocks. But there are a lot of guys that can make a 450 yard shot. I wouldn't condone anyone taking a shot that far if they haven't practiced that far and they sure as hell shouldn't take that shot with a .243.

Alastain...

I'm not a guide but I have seen a ton of deer killed in my lifetime...We have 3 family farms so I keep the .243 in the truck...It's used to kill coyotes, foxes, crows, groundhogs, feral dogs, feral pigs, deer, bears and other varmints...

We kill 40-50 deer a year and have done so for 30 years off these farms...In a season we will have somewhere between 12 -18 hunters...As you mentioned, somewhere around 125 yards the boys start missing...I'd say for the average shot as you mentioned that deer is pretty safe out at 300 yards...

That's one reason I stick with the .243, I've used it since 1980 and only lost one deer to it...I've killed plenty between 250-350 yards and simply don't like to take them much past that...Killing a deer at 300 yards is a snap when you can kill crows and groundhogs at that distance...

Doping bullet drop is one thing, doping the wind is another, especially with 100 gr bullets...

If I lived in elk country I'd probably have a 300 Mag, but I don't and a .243 will do for the bears I have to dispatch...

Here's my .243 (improved version), still has 1300 lbs of energy at this distance. Sure, its not ideal for elk/moose/bear and if you have a bigger gun then use it. But if all you have is a .243 and know how to shoot it then use it and be patient. :s4:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X54ySM10Pc

That's pretty good shooting Jeepkid !!!

I love my .243, but it's just a win not an ackley.

My goodness there are alot of people on here that think black bears are hard to kill. I wouldn't hesitate to use any "deer caliber" including a .243 on a black bear. Of course I've never killed or even seen a 400-500 pounder but the ones I've seen from PA and Maine sure were not wearing Kevlar. Can't comment on Elk as Ive never hunted them but if I did and only had a .243 I would load it up with a heavy, premium bullet and go get em.

Nobody here said you couldn't kill a bear with a .243. Just that it wouldn't be our weapon of choice.

All the elk in Colorado do wear kevlar. They are sneaky like that.

Going back to my post on page 1 I feel i need to clear up 1 or 2 things, First, i never said that the .243 is the best gun to do the job, i said it is a great gun for taking big game. Second point is, i'm not trying to convince or convert anyone that it is the best caliber for elk, moose, or bear, but it will do the job, plan and simple.

I have a few decades of hunting and guiding for big game here in Montana, and I can say with 100% certainty, that the big shoulder howitzers that a lot of young hunters take into the woods are also not the best, i.e. 300win mag, 338 magetc, etc.... All those big guns do is give a hunter a chance to be successful on a less then optimum shot. i have tracked elk for over a 1/4 mile for clients after being shot with one of these big guns so don't try to tell me that they rae the be all, end all answers to this debate either.
Most of the time we would get these fella's in from back east that have never hunted anything other then whitetails and they run out to their local gun store and buy one of these big guns from some guy that chances are has never been out west to hunt either, but he's interested in amking a sale. I've asked hundreds of clients what the normal hunt with at home, then ask them why they thought they needed to buy a gun that they have zero real field experience with to come hunt out here. Their answer is, " well i'm not real sure, thought maybe my 06, or 270 or whatever was too small to do the job."

If you hunt with a 300 win mag, then good for you. I hope you like it, and i hope it works for you, but believe me it is more gun then needed to take down the biggest muley, elk, moose, or black bear here in the lower 48. As i posted earlier, i hunted with the 30'06 for over 30 years, it was only in the last year that i switched to the 243, the reasons for the switch are varied, but i enjoy hunting with the smaller caliber and the cheaper cost of ammo too. If i'm going out bear hunting is the 243 the first gun out of my safe, no. The 06 is, but if i'm out chasing deer and i see a black bear will i take it with the 243, absolutely will if the right shot presents it's self.

Have read many comments on these posts about taking long shots and want to say this about that, If you have hunted out west or live out west then you know the difference between what we consider a long shot and what others consider long shots. 350-500yrds on an antelope hunt is not what i would consider a long shot, in fact on and elk or muley hunt those distances are not long shots. We have miles upon miles of wide open spaces, whether it's shooting across the plains at a speed goat or shooting across a canyon for a muley, shots in those ranges are not uncommon. What is uncommon is someone from other then out west that can consistantly make those shots. Every center fire gun i own is zero for 500, but if you don't shoot it regularly, don't try it regardless of the caliber you shoot.

Scottb3472, I like your signature line.

Alsatian and Scott.........that's some very good and informative input thank-you

I think where you're hunting black bears can matter greatly, a black bear in the lower 48 vs. some in canada, BC, alaska...a true 500lbs black bear vs. some of these 100 lbs bears I see taken are a huge difference.

But I agree most hunters, most bears, a deer rifle is plenty gun, esp a 270 or 30-06

I took 2 bears in BC, both with a .300win.mag, one dropped dead on the spot, the other soaked up quite a bit of lead, the 1st shot probably killed him, but put a few more rounds in him.

I recently heard these black bears have been reclassified as coastal bears, and have a larger variation from black bears, than grizzlies/browns do.

Some of the whitetails in Canada are brusers also.

Nor did I say anyone said a .243 wouldn't kill a bear. I simply said that it seems people give black bears more credit for being hard to kill than they deserve.

Wisconsin has some of the biggest whitetails in the lower 48. A .243 can take down the biggest of them with ease.

It's an extremely well performing cartridge.

I knew a guy who went to BC where his inlaw lived. He came back and told me he shot 2 bears about 200 lbs each from 250 yds. He shot a cow moose, and a sheep. I asked what caliber? Thinking a 300 win. Just a 243. Surprised look on my face. He said put her in da bread basket and dats all dat matters.