.375 Ruger .416 Ruger...Fad?
 

10 Years ago I bought a 7mm WSM..the world seemed to be changing and time tested cartridges were "new and improved" Now Cabelas has stopped carrying ammo for the 7WSM-and I'm not sure there are any new production rifles in that caliber anymore.

So now that I am looking at a big bore rifle..am would I be going down the a similar path with one of these new Ruger/Hornady rifles?

Is there much to gain in these updated calibers?

IMO, you gain a little more power with a 375 ruger over the legendary H&H, but not enough to warrant selling one for the other. The two ruger cases are capable of fitting in 30-06 actions, where as the full length H&H needs an action to handle a 3.600" OAL round. Winchester long actions already do this, and finding full length actions isnt too hard or pricey, so the need isnt there like it would be say 30 years ago, IMO. For the last few years, the 416 Rem mag languished, and was disappearing, so the new ruger had a legit purpose. Now Winchester is selling the safari rifles again, and ammo is coming avail again. Finding brass or ammo is fairly simple for the 375H&H, just about anywhere in the world. The new ruger cases, good luck. With the H&H case, you can make just about any belted mag from it, ie 7mm STW, 358 STA, 8mm mag, 416 mag, just to name a few. If you have a H&H, and want a definate improvement, have it reamed for 375 wby, and it will still take the old case with ease, fireforming new brass in the process. If you want the ruger flavor, then go for it, their alaskan rifle is cool. Only problem is, I dont think in the long term(15-30 years) ammo will be around. Time will tell on that.

I'll also add, unlike other guns, you do want some meat, aka weight with these calibers. It will tame down the recoil. I would think 8.5-9lb to be a good weight for a 375 or maybe a 416, and not be unwielding. Hence I rather have a full sized action, and not an intermediate action.

Browning still offers new rifles in 7mm WSM, though I'm not sure anyone else does, I think the 270 and 300 wsm are here to stay.

The .375 and .416 Ruger offer little IMO over the .375 H&H or .416 Rigby


Expand on what you mean by big bore?
IMO once you hit .375 and larger the decisions are easy, 375 H&H, 416 Rigby, 458 Lott
I don't see any hot new round coming into these markets and taking over, we have the weatherby's, 375RUM, which is now dead I believe, the 450rigby is nice, but the Lott is the way to go in the .458 caliber IMO, plus it'll shoot .458 win.mag.

also there is the .338win.mag, or .340wby.

the best round doesn't always win the race, many times the first/popular one does, and that means a lot especially if you don't reload or may one day sell the rifle or need ammo in a pinch.

btw I believe it is said that the 375H&H only needs 22" of barrel to burn that powder effectively, etc... so if you just want a handy rifle, a .375 ruger isn't required, sako has a H&H with a 21 1/4" barrel, ruger has a 23" in the H&H.

I'm not sure there are any stats on it, but it would be interesting to note how many rifles over .375 caliber or larger are sold each year, compared to under .300, I believe I once read that up until 308caliber all calibers are pretty popular, but after that sales drastically drop, ie way more 300mags are sold than 338mags, and I'm pretty certain that trend continues on up...
although they say big bores are more popular than ever before, but I still wouldn't think they're a 1/10th of deer rifle sales.

loper,

"So now that I am looking at a big bore rifle..am would I be going down the a similar path with one of these new Ruger/Hornady rifles?"


You answered your own question..............even with a question ?



Bet you wished you brought a 7MM Rem Mag right about now, huh ?

The .375 Ruger just doesn't have the popularity and ammo is just not as readily available as the tried and true .375 H & H

That's the big problem with new caliber releases. It takes awhile (maybe never?) for them to gain a following which leads to stores stocking them.

I am looking for a rifle fit for caribou/bear up to 300yds so that I don't need to tote around two rifles...but I also want enough 'umph for a cape buff.

My thoughts are to look at the .416-.458 calibers..but they aren't as adept for a 300yd shot as the .375's are...BUT they pack a bit more punch when it may be needed.

As far as my 7wsm goes..I like it. As long as Federal keeps packaging the Barnes TSX..I'm happy-and I can always get hand loads after that.

the 375H&H has enough for cape buffalo, cousin took his with 300gr solids.

the 375 and 416 are certainly flatter than the 458

the 375 and 458 are more popular/cheaper I would think than a 416, but I think the 416 is growing in popularity.

Why in the world would you think that you need something bigger than the 7mm mag for caribou and bears?

If and when you go on a buffalo hunt then worry about getting the DG rifle.

.375
 

I always liked that saying. ".375 H&H. One planet, one rifle."
But the .375 Ruger, does the job. And, it's made in the good old USA

ATB

7mm mag will work fine for caribou or bear, though for big brown bears I might like a little more so I dont wet my pants.

Now bigbulls, why on earth would you try and talk a man out of buying more guns?lol. 375H&H is a good all around gun, and is alot of fun to shoot. Much more of a push on recoil. You can use lighter bullets for the 'bou, or anything else that walks, or go with the heavier bullets for big'nasty.

Keep your 7mm wsm, reload if you dont yet, or consider a rebarrel to 300 wsm. Then get yourself a 375H&H, and maybe a nice bigbore lever gun in the mix. You can NEVER have too many guns!lol

I have a Howa in 300wm, a 45/70 Marlin and just bought a Howa in 375 Ruger:cool2:

I bought a Howa in 375 Ruger, cos they are Sooo cheap to buy, I would have had a 373H&H in a heartbeat, but the savings will buy lots of brass and I'd reload anyway:deer:

That's good!

160gr is too light for bison, or brown bear, etc. If I were to be doing more of the Big 5-then the .458 would be the best choice. But it looks like its going to be hard to beat the H&H.

Just for fun why not the 378 Weatherby? Now your talking extended range too.

http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=139902

http://www.weatherby.com/_docs/Weath...ballistics.pdf

Energy at the muzzle 5700-6100ft/lbs....is that accurate!?

$70/box for the H&H, $140 for the Weatherby...I hadn't thought of the .378-but that's a hell of a cannon!

Check out the 375 weatherby. Its sort of an improved H&H. Give you the option of shooting lower power loads with H&H brass, or stout loads with wby ammo. I might consider having my model 798 rechambered for it one day.

Have a good look at the 9.3 X 62 Mauser.....fits in a .30-06 action and does exactly what you want!

What about the .338 win.mag?

While it's sometimes nice to be on the cutting edge, I'm generally more conservative when it comes to firearms and would select the H&H over the Ruger chambering any day of the week.

On the surface the .375 Ruger looks like the cat's meow. It wasn't until I tried to find ammunition for it that I realized that the .375 H&H was the better option for me at this point in time. Maybe in twenty years, if the round catches on, I'll opt for it. Heck, as it is I like the 9.3 x 62, and that can be hard to find ammo for at times, but not near as hard as the .375 Ruger.

.375 H&H is available worldwide. That says a lot right there.

Biker

The Ruger is the better cartridge if you reload since there is less case stretch/greater performance.Otherwise the availability of the H&H wins out.

I just got back to the USA from Zimbabwe this weekend. The only rifle I took was a Ruger Hawkeye African in .375 Ruger. It will never be as popular as the H&H due to a 100 year head start, but it is not an uncommon round in Africa (I guess mostly due to hunters from the US). I can't tell any difference on game, but I like carrying the little Ruger. The .375 Ruger works very well and I think it is here to stay.

The 375 Ruger is the cartridge that I would have chosen over the 338 Win Mag if it came out 30 years ago. I did buy a 375 Ruger last year for a build. It was pleasant to shoot before I sent it off for a 500 AccRel rebarrel.

The 375 Ruger cartridge is a beautiful design and should be supported and chosen over the H&H. It is about an ideal capacity for the medium bores, efficient by filling out the body, and not demanding extra length in the action. While the 375H&H is a great cartridge, the 375 Ruger is better. Yes, that means a commitment to handloading, but such a commitment is necessary for tailoring any hunting load, especially as one goes above 338 calibre.

When the question moves on to the 416 calibre I am mixed.
The 416 Ruger is a great cartridge and design in the Alaskan Hawkeye model. I would handload 350 grain TSX or TTSX at 2600fps or a lighterweight CEB tipped non-con at 2800fps. My problem is that I love shooting the 416 Rigby with 350 TSX at 2825fps (6200 ftlbs). If I didn't have the Rigby I'd go with the 416 Ruger and save a pound of rifle weight. Maybe. I really like the Rigby. The bullet seems just the right size in one's hand.

So what would I recommend? Maybe the 416 Ruger in Alaska and the 416 Rigby handloaded as above in Africa. For elk the 375 Ruger is about right, with 250-grain TTSX or the newer CEB tipped non-cons.

Finaly bought my .416 Ruger Alskan :)

No all I need is a .204 Ruger to complete the trifecta

I have done a fair amount of caribou and bear hunting over the years in Alaska...I have never used anything bigger than my 270WSM on caribou and my brother and Sis-In-Law most commonly use 30-06 and 300 Win Mag's on our regular caribou hunts...and we all have taken animal out to 300+ on several occasions.

Now bear is a different story...but only if you are Griz hunting...99% of my black bear hunts were with a 308 or 270...and one of my hunting partners who is a big time bear hunter has taken more black bears with a .243 loaded with 100g Nosler Ballistic Tips than the rest of us in the group combined.

Cape buffalo....now that's a different story....but a 375 or 416 would certainly be overkill for a caribou.

.338 WM is all you need for North America.

Going to Africa - .375 H&H or .416 Rigby


You should find available ammo in those calibers on each respective continent.

I have seen many more .416 Rem Mag rifles in Africa than the Rigby version. I would hazard a wild guess that there are more rifles chambered in .416 Ruger than Rigby.

The Rigby seems like it would be more popular, but from what I have seen it just is not. The cartridge case is just too darn large to fit in many actions and ammo is expensive.

Good read;

http://www.huntinglegends.com/2008/11/416-rigby/


Don't have to guess - The Rigby is a classic cartridge since 1911 (the Ruger 2009) .

When you hunt Africa the expense for the ammo is totally insignificant.

I haven't read all of the threads, but here's my take on it....

The "average rifle hunter" is a whitetail deer hunter, so he needs something along the lines of a 100-200grn bullet cruising anywhere from 1800-3500fps. Henceforth, there are hundreds of mainstream cartridges that deliver that level of performance. Every one of these "average hunters" has an idea of what the ideal cartridge is for his use, but ultimately, the significance in the gap between these hundreds of cartridges is imaginary when it comes to actual on-game performance.

The 'average rifle hunter' doesn't spend much time shooting rimfire for anything more than casual plinking, so his standards are low. Henceforth, we had only 2 common rimfire cartridges for years, and now only have 5. We made no illusion that there was a gap to be filled, so there weren't 'filler cartridges' produced, as there just wasn't demand for them. Is there room? Sure. Are they needed? Eh, not really, but neither are HUNDREDS of those deer cartridges mentioned above.

At the other end of the spectrum, there are a scarce few hunters that spend much time in need of a big bore rifle, therefore the demand is low. Again, there have been a dozen or so what I'd call "mainstream" heavy cartridges for the last 100yrs or so. Again, these powerful few have met the needs of all of their hunters, so there hasn't been a huge demand for new alternatives. Is there room for others? Sure.

So to say that buying a 375R or 416Ruger is a waste of time because it's not any 'better' than a .375 H&H or .416 Rigby or Remington, I'd ask the question: "then why in the sam he11 do we have a .30-06, .308, .300WM, .300WSM, .300 Savage, .30......?" None are significantly better than the other, but we have them.

The mentality that a .338wm, .375H&H, and .416Rem are the ONLY heavy cartridges anyone would ever need, and therefore should be able to buy is the same logic that all pick-ups should be white Ford F-150's.

The only legitimate reason, in my opinion, to not buy a Ruger cartridge chambered rifle is that too many people will stand up and say "the only pick-ups should be white Ford F-150's", and eventually that mentality will kill a great cartridge. In all fairness, most guys that buy these rifles end up selling them after a once in a lifetime hunt with no more than few boxes fired through them AND the overall rifle/ammo cost of such a hunt is minute compared to the hunt costs, so considering 'longevity' of these cartridge against resale value of the rifles is essentially moot.

I still have a .416Rig and a .375 H&H, even a .338WM in the safe. Almost never shoot them, don't even have dies for the .375 or the .338wm. If I get a chance at another bear hunt in a couple years, then I'm pretty interested in taking a .375 Ruger, just for something different (will probably take my Marlin 1895 Guide Gun though ;) ).

But everybody else can go ahead and keep driving their White Ford F-150's and wearing the same pair of shoes...

On the Rigby vs Remington issue, I'd say 10-15yrs ago, the common perception was that you could find Rigby ammo on the other side of the pond a lot easier than Remington, so no matter which one they preferred, having a ammo was favorable to getting overseas and having your ammo not make the trip, so guys bought the Rigby. So that bolstered sales of Rigby's, even if guys thought the Rem was superior (my vote was Rigby either way).

I don't think those rules apply today. Getting ammo to your destination is a lot more reliable, and I think .416Rem has gained enough popularity that you could get ammo either place.

For what it's worth, I have heard a parallel thought process that guys should never reload ammo for their 'African rifles', because if your ammo doesn't make it, you'll be stuck with factory loads available, so you should just shoot and zero to the factory fodder. It's sound logic, but I think it's better to just plan your trip effectively enough to get your ammo there, no matter what you're shooting.

My comment about ammo is certainly significant to the fellows that live over there. All rifles and ammo are expensive for the locals.

For the traveling hunter the cost of ammo is insignificant compared to all of the other costs.

The comment about seeing more .416 Rem Mags than Rigby was my personal observation of the rifles that the local guys use. I don't recall seeing a PH that used the Rigby but I do know several PHs that use the Remington version and one that uses the Ruger. They are all fine cartridges, but the recoil from a .416 or larger wears me out quickly.

I voted for the 375 H&H.

Call me a nostalgic old fool.