Good defense gun fora lil' lady.
12-13-2010, 12:21 PM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4
Good defense gun fora lil' lady.
I've been working nights the last couple weeks and my girlfriends been having to stay at the apartment by herself. She gets really nervous when things go bump intha night so i wanted to get a gun she could keep close by (I dont let her touch mine 
) But anyways i wanted to get her a gun she was comfortable shooting (somthing she could handle) But strong enough to stop an attacker. I would go with the 20ga but it seems like 20ga buckshot is so hard to come across in my area. I dont think she can really get comfortable with the 12. So im kinda torn wut to do. I was thinking of getting her a nice little semi auto .22 witha red dot scope or laser but im not sure that would do the trick ona drug hyped attacker. (this situation most likely will never occur but better safe than sorry) What do ya'll think would be a good option for us. All opinions are to my full interest and thanks for your time. P.S. Not old enough for the 9milly or this post would be non existant.
) But anyways i wanted to get her a gun she was comfortable shooting (somthing she could handle) But strong enough to stop an attacker. I would go with the 20ga but it seems like 20ga buckshot is so hard to come across in my area. I dont think she can really get comfortable with the 12. So im kinda torn wut to do. I was thinking of getting her a nice little semi auto .22 witha red dot scope or laser but im not sure that would do the trick ona drug hyped attacker. (this situation most likely will never occur but better safe than sorry) What do ya'll think would be a good option for us. All opinions are to my full interest and thanks for your time. P.S. Not old enough for the 9milly or this post would be non existant.
12-13-2010, 12:33 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,519
What about a semi auto gas operated 12 gauge? They will kick less than a pump or single shot. Granted, they still kick fairly hard with buckshot. I've shot some 20 gauges that are just as bad or worse due to them being lighter and on a smaller frame. I think a semi auto 12 gauge is what I'd go with, but if not, I'd get a 20 gauge and order some buckshot online. No way I'd give her a .22 for home defense.
12-13-2010, 12:54 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: central and east texas
Posts: 4,894
guessin yall are under 21, i believe thats what your saying.
i dont know that i'd give her a gun...sounds like she aint real familiar with them, why else would she not be able to touch yours; (my ol lady doesnt like shooting my 40, but she can take it apart and clean it properly, put it together and shoot it need be, but she prefers a 380/9mm.)
and on top of that she gets scared from stuff goin bump in the night in an apartment; ( its an apartment, your most likely connected to 4 or more with people doing all kinds of stuff at different times.)
put that together and its kinda scary.
a person with no gun skills walking through an apartment with a gun at nite because she heard something bump in the night in an apartment, ( this puts everyone around her in danger, funny thing is, no one around you would know, if they did, i bet they would move. lol )
maybe a can of bear spray for now, a plan of what to do if...i.g..go out this window, or use that door...a phone by the bed to call for help....
tasers are good, non lethal, wont go through walls ( if she did accidentally squeeze one off looking fer the thing that went bump in the night), and if she accidentally shoots you, it wont be permanent, in most cases.
i dont know that i'd give her a gun...sounds like she aint real familiar with them, why else would she not be able to touch yours; (my ol lady doesnt like shooting my 40, but she can take it apart and clean it properly, put it together and shoot it need be, but she prefers a 380/9mm.)
and on top of that she gets scared from stuff goin bump in the night in an apartment; ( its an apartment, your most likely connected to 4 or more with people doing all kinds of stuff at different times.)
put that together and its kinda scary.
a person with no gun skills walking through an apartment with a gun at nite because she heard something bump in the night in an apartment, ( this puts everyone around her in danger, funny thing is, no one around you would know, if they did, i bet they would move. lol )
maybe a can of bear spray for now, a plan of what to do if...i.g..go out this window, or use that door...a phone by the bed to call for help....
tasers are good, non lethal, wont go through walls ( if she did accidentally squeeze one off looking fer the thing that went bump in the night), and if she accidentally shoots you, it wont be permanent, in most cases.
12-13-2010, 12:56 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,780
At defense distances you will find that regular shot sizes would be very effective and would not have as much problem with over penetration. A load of #4 in a 2 3/4" shell from a 20 gauge would be very impressive at 10 to 20 feet.
12-13-2010, 01:35 PM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,902
What about a semi auto gas operated 12 gauge? They will kick less than a pump or single shot. Granted, they still kick fairly hard with buckshot. I've shot some 20 gauges that are just as bad or worse due to them being lighter and on a smaller frame. I think a semi auto 12 gauge is what I'd go with, but if not, I'd get a 20 gauge and order some buckshot online. No way I'd give her a .22 for home defense.
To answer the original question. No long gun for home defense. It's way too easy to disarm ANYONE with a long gun, let alone a woman (not trying to be sexist, but less body weight and/or less strength is a fact).
Personally, if she doesn't shoot much, I'd recommend a double action .38spcl snub nosed revolver. Tell her to fire until it's empty, so the gun can't be used against her if she misses and gets over powered (advice from a FBI officer I used to shoot with). My fiancee has a Taurus 85 Ultralight .38spcl and a Smith and Wesson 65 Ladysmith .357mag (loaded with .38spcl). The advantage is that if there's one in the tube and she pulls the trigger, it goes bang... Every time...
If she shoots quite a bit, then a double action semiauto with a magazine disconnect is also a good option. She has the option for more shots, but if she gets in trouble, she can drop the magazine to prevent the gun from being used against her.
NO way I'd use a .22lr for home defense. Unless ur girlfriend can shoot a flying cantelope rapid fire in the dark without missing, then there's no way to guarantee she can connect the necessary head shots to stop an intruder.
Regardless of what you get for her, the most important thing is to have her practice with it and get familiar with how it operates. Practice will also help her be familiar with the recoil and flash, which can be startling for a new shooter.
12-13-2010, 01:46 PM
#6
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Upstate NY/Prescott AZ
Posts: 129
I'd suggest a Taurus Judge, but if handguns are off the table due to age constraints, then possibly a 410 or 20 gauge.
Wouldn't worry too much between 00 Buckshot, #2, #4, or #7, though the larger the shot the higher the probability of lethality.
Short barrel, improved choke for max spread, and it's on like donkey kong on roids if something goes bumpity bump bump in the night.
I used to give my girl my 12ga 870 loaded with a "specialty" load, along with her 380, while I checked it out with my 45.
She had her cell phone, I had mine. She got the ALL CLEAR before I got anywhere near the bedroom too...
Wouldn't worry too much between 00 Buckshot, #2, #4, or #7, though the larger the shot the higher the probability of lethality.
Short barrel, improved choke for max spread, and it's on like donkey kong on roids if something goes bumpity bump bump in the night.
I used to give my girl my 12ga 870 loaded with a "specialty" load, along with her 380, while I checked it out with my 45.
She had her cell phone, I had mine. She got the ALL CLEAR before I got anywhere near the bedroom too...
12-13-2010, 04:38 PM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,425
I agree with #2 or #4 shot out of that 20 gauge...I use my 12 gauge with #6 shot and a full choke to cut through 4-5 inch tree limbs that I can't reach with a pole saw when clearing shooting lands...
You DON'T want to get hit with a load of #4 shot at 15 feet, the docs wouldn't be able to fish them all out...
You DON'T want to get hit with a load of #4 shot at 15 feet, the docs wouldn't be able to fish them all out...
12-13-2010, 05:28 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,056
Quite a few information gaps here, so I'm with halfbaked on this one. If she's not familiar with firearms, there's far too much that can go wrong before she reaches the moment of truth. Any hesitation, apprehension, or fumbling up to that point is just asking for a potential intruder to wrest said firearm away from her, and now you have an armed intruder.
A dog is often the most effective deterrent to strangers. In an apartment where dogs may not be welcome - pepper spray, mace, or a taser would probably be better choices than a firearm.
A dog is often the most effective deterrent to strangers. In an apartment where dogs may not be welcome - pepper spray, mace, or a taser would probably be better choices than a firearm.
12-13-2010, 06:57 PM
#9
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 608
And semiauto shotguns are much more finicky for the female shooter. HIGH END shotguns will cycle well regardless of hold, but many low-end up to middle of the road semi-auto shotguns will fail to feed if the shooter doesn't meet the recoil well. One of my Berettas functions FLAWLESSLY for anyone over 150lbs, but my fiancee and my sister have to make a conscious effort to meet the recoil to ensure feeding. My younger cousins also have the same problem with it. My mother did considerable action work to her Franchi semiauto to lighten the springs so it would fully cycle for her. In a panic, how much focus will your girlfriend have on meeting recoil? She'll need a gun that will go bang every time she pulls the trigger.
To answer the original question. No long gun for home defense. It's way too easy to disarm ANYONE with a long gun, let alone a woman (not trying to be sexist, but less body weight and/or less strength is a fact).
Personally, if she doesn't shoot much, I'd recommend a double action .38spcl snub nosed revolver. Tell her to fire until it's empty, so the gun can't be used against her if she misses and gets over powered (advice from a FBI officer I used to shoot with). My fiancee has a Taurus 85 Ultralight .38spcl and a Smith and Wesson 65 Ladysmith .357mag (loaded with .38spcl). The advantage is that if there's one in the tube and she pulls the trigger, it goes bang... Every time...
If she shoots quite a bit, then a double action semiauto with a magazine disconnect is also a good option. She has the option for more shots, but if she gets in trouble, she can drop the magazine to prevent the gun from being used against her.
NO way I'd use a .22lr for home defense. Unless ur girlfriend can shoot a flying cantelope rapid fire in the dark without missing, then there's no way to guarantee she can connect the necessary head shots to stop an intruder.
Regardless of what you get for her, the most important thing is to have her practice with it and get familiar with how it operates. Practice will also help her be familiar with the recoil and flash, which can be startling for a new shooter.
To answer the original question. No long gun for home defense. It's way too easy to disarm ANYONE with a long gun, let alone a woman (not trying to be sexist, but less body weight and/or less strength is a fact).
Personally, if she doesn't shoot much, I'd recommend a double action .38spcl snub nosed revolver. Tell her to fire until it's empty, so the gun can't be used against her if she misses and gets over powered (advice from a FBI officer I used to shoot with). My fiancee has a Taurus 85 Ultralight .38spcl and a Smith and Wesson 65 Ladysmith .357mag (loaded with .38spcl). The advantage is that if there's one in the tube and she pulls the trigger, it goes bang... Every time...
If she shoots quite a bit, then a double action semiauto with a magazine disconnect is also a good option. She has the option for more shots, but if she gets in trouble, she can drop the magazine to prevent the gun from being used against her.
NO way I'd use a .22lr for home defense. Unless ur girlfriend can shoot a flying cantelope rapid fire in the dark without missing, then there's no way to guarantee she can connect the necessary head shots to stop an intruder.
Regardless of what you get for her, the most important thing is to have her practice with it and get familiar with how it operates. Practice will also help her be familiar with the recoil and flash, which can be startling for a new shooter.
Fist of all, she needs to take a personal protection course that does not involve firearms. Look into taking some type of martial arts. Doing some strength training is also a good idea. Second, if she is going to handle a firearm, she should take a safety course first and work with a certified instructor. Once the fundamentals are down, take advanced courses. Proper instruction, training and practice are very important. You don't want to get shot because she was afraid of the intruder coming into the apartment.
A snubby is made for experienced shooters, not novices or the occasional shooter. Inexperienced shooter with a snubby equals a frustrated shooter (hard time hitting a 10 inch circle at 10 to 15 feet). The key is to hit your target every single shot, not fire hoping to hit your target. Where will the bullets that missed the target end up? Scary thought, especially in an apartment environment. A revolver with a 3" to 5" barrel can make a good house gun. You lose velocity and sight radius with the subby and gain muzzle flash and muzzle blast.
I personally would not own a firearm that had a magazine disconnect for personal protection at home or a carry gun. You have have the semi-auto shotgun, I will take a pump action.
Either you misunderstood the FBI agent, or they do not know much about firearms and their proper use for personal protection. I have witnessed many LEO and military who are not fundamentally sound in shooting a handgun. When they are taught the proper fundamentals, they are amazed at how much their accuracy and target acquisition improve.
12-13-2010, 08:18 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,902
There are so many incorrect statements in this post.
Fist of all, she needs to take a personal protection course that does not involve firearms. Look into taking some type of martial arts. Doing some strength training is also a good idea. Second, if she is going to handle a firearm, she should take a safety course first and work with a certified instructor. Once the fundamentals are down, take advanced courses. Proper instruction, training and practice are very important. You don't want to get shot because she was afraid of the intruder coming into the apartment.
A snubby is made for experienced shooters, not novices or the occasional shooter. Inexperienced shooter with a snubby equals a frustrated shooter (hard time hitting a 10 inch circle at 10 to 15 feet). The key is to hit your target every single shot, not fire hoping to hit your target. Where will the bullets that missed the target end up? Scary thought, especially in an apartment environment. A revolver with a 3" to 5" barrel can make a good house gun. You lose velocity and sight radius with the subby and gain muzzle flash and muzzle blast.
I personally would not own a firearm that had a magazine disconnect for personal protection at home or a carry gun. You have have the semi-auto shotgun, I will take a pump action.
Either you misunderstood the FBI agent, or they do not know much about firearms and their proper use for personal protection. I have witnessed many LEO and military who are not fundamentally sound in shooting a handgun. When they are taught the proper fundamentals, they are amazed at how much their accuracy and target acquisition improve.
Fist of all, she needs to take a personal protection course that does not involve firearms. Look into taking some type of martial arts. Doing some strength training is also a good idea. Second, if she is going to handle a firearm, she should take a safety course first and work with a certified instructor. Once the fundamentals are down, take advanced courses. Proper instruction, training and practice are very important. You don't want to get shot because she was afraid of the intruder coming into the apartment.
A snubby is made for experienced shooters, not novices or the occasional shooter. Inexperienced shooter with a snubby equals a frustrated shooter (hard time hitting a 10 inch circle at 10 to 15 feet). The key is to hit your target every single shot, not fire hoping to hit your target. Where will the bullets that missed the target end up? Scary thought, especially in an apartment environment. A revolver with a 3" to 5" barrel can make a good house gun. You lose velocity and sight radius with the subby and gain muzzle flash and muzzle blast.
I personally would not own a firearm that had a magazine disconnect for personal protection at home or a carry gun. You have have the semi-auto shotgun, I will take a pump action.
Either you misunderstood the FBI agent, or they do not know much about firearms and their proper use for personal protection. I have witnessed many LEO and military who are not fundamentally sound in shooting a handgun. When they are taught the proper fundamentals, they are amazed at how much their accuracy and target acquisition improve.
To verify, YES, the FBI agent said to fire the gun empty. His point was that home invasion usually involves point blank shooting. A BIG room in a house is 20ft in one direction, so unless both the shooter and the assailant are standing with their backs to the walls, home invasion shootings will happen within 10ft.
Secondly, as a 15+ yr veteran of multiple martial arts, I very strongly disagree with you about the girl taking martial arts. "Strike and Run" self defense classes are MODERATE benefit, but in a home invasion situation, I'm not buying it. Training in a true martial art will give her a false sense of ability. This isn't a 1985 womens self defense video, it's real life. Having trained many martial artists myself over the last decade, unless this girl/woman is on the large size, then martial arts will be useless. A 200lb man with no training WILL overpower a 150lb or less woman. Period. The same would be said for a 150lb man, in my honest opinion. MAYBE you get lucky and the assailant doesn't have much perserverence and a broken nose will deter them, but in my professional opinion, if a 50+lb weight difference is involved, unless she's a blackbelt, she will not win. Martial arts for women is great for sport, but don't be mistaken that it'll save their life, Nike will save their life before Ninjutsu.
As far as "snub nosed" 2-3" vs a 3-5" revolver goes, now you're just splitting hairs. If she's inexperienced, she's not going to be very accurate with EITHER gun. I don't care whether it's 2" or 8", unless she practices with a handgun, she's not going to be very accurate. On the other hand, we're talking about 5 shots within 10ft. Either the guy is going to advance or retreat, but we're talking 10ft. If he runs, she wins, if she advances, then her 25yrd groups won't matter much anyway.
My philosophy for home defense is to kill the intruder, but if SHTF, don't get killed with your own gun. If I surprise you at night in your bedroom and you jump up for your shotgun, even as a MAN I guarantee you will not get a shot on me. Having been in exchanged fire situations in the past, the ONLY focus is on the gun. I'm grabbing your gun... Your long, unweildly gun. Even on a 20" shotgun, once I grab the barrel, it's useless to you. Whether it's a long gun or a handgun, I want the gun to be able in my hands, and disabled in his. Whether it's EMPTY, or has the mag removed, if I lose control of my gun, I don't want an intruder to be able to use it against me.
Additionally, a girl defending herself in the dark isn't an LEO. Her use of a gun is to defend herself and not get killed in the process. She's not going to maintain a sustained gun battle with an assailant, and an assailant isn't going to sustain a gun battle against her. A "wake up to a man in the room" situation is a race between her waking up and realizing danger, grabbing the gun and getting it on target and getting a shot off before the assailant covers 10ft... test it against your wife sometime. Use a kitchen timer, when it beeps, have her go for a brush on the nightstand, and you dive at the bed. Try it 10 times and keep track of who wins... You'll be surprised. I've demonstrated this same act using paintball guns.
I DO agree with you, however, and maybe you misunderstood my point, that a pump shotgun would be a much better choice than a semi-auto. I OWN semiauto shotguns for hunting and 3-gun competitions. The point of my post was that semiauto shotguns DO NOT make good home defense guns for female shooters. But then again, I'm still never convinced ANY long gun is better than ANY handgun for home defense.
Read some statistics on home invasion shootings, then compare it to your own notes. You'll be surprised what the last 20yrs of police reports will tell you about the necessary weapon for home invasion defense.
