bigcountry

Well, your full of it because we have all proved you are. You said I said for example that all BARs are submoa. I challenge you to show me where I said that. I either said it and am wrong about you, or your a full of crap liar. Liars are horrible people that have agendas.

Your full of it when you say, "friends or family", but do not own or extensively test out said "product".

I mean could you imagine John Barsness, writing in handloader, that he read on the internet, or heard from frieinds about a particular product? He would lose all his creditibility.

From what you have posted, the majority of your experience is "hear say". There is a reason why hear say can raise an objection in the court of law. This type of orange army gas station k owledge is not accepted well here.

Lots of submoa shooters can be found like you the internet. What cracks me up is you do not understand why littlerly no-one takes you serious on here.

With all these friends, can you name one person on here that knows you personally and maybe knows your riflery knowledge?

I know for me, I don't have a ton of friends like you claim, but personally know 10-12 people on this forum, many I actually hunt with. One, I am on a bow league with. Two, I graduated college with. One is my brother. I mean if all these friends you claim, you would think at least one could vouch for you.

hometheaterman

Most of what you claim I'm full of it on, I've actually owned.

I've actually owned a Leupold VX-I and had plenty of experience with it as well as several other similar priced scopes to compare it to. I've actually owned a second VX-I that was broken when I bought it. I got it fixed from Leupold, compared the glass to the first one and saw it was no better. I sold this one without ever mounting it, but I did experience the glass in it and see it was still not up to par with other scopes in that price range. I also got to see first hand how it went from working great and being on a friends gun that shot great group one day, to not even being on target the next. I got to see him try to dial it back in only to see it move every shot. He was so fed up to me he sold it to me cheap. I've also owned a Leupold Vari-X II which I also felt the same about the glass. However, I never mounted this one either so I can't comment on how it functioned. The guy I sold it to says it works great, but that doesn't make up for the fact that the glass is still sub par compared to other scopes in it's price range. Not sure how much more you want me to test it other than testing out the glass in daylight as well as low light. Testing out the tracking, and repeatability on it. Doing a drop test, and seeing how long they hold up in the field. What further testing would you like me to perform?

The Browning BAR, I've not gotten it to shoot any better than 1.5" groups and often times 2" groups with ammo it likes. I've shot it, I've had others that are better shots than me shoot it, and I've tried a ton of ammo along with many suggestions I read online. Only to have it shoot exactly the same for all of us. It's a great deer gun, and is a great quality rifle, however, good accuracy for target shooting it doesn't have.

Those are basically the products you claim I bash, and I've had experience owning and using all of them. I have friends that also own the same products, and theirs are no better. It's not like I'm just going off of how theirs performs. It's when the product I own doesn't perform, so I compare it to a friends to see if the one I got was maybe a lemon. Then seeing that theirs is no better leads me to the conclusion that it's probably how the majority of them. I don't see how owning them and experiencing the problems first hand, as well as seeing others experience the problems makes me inexperienced in it.

Can you honestly say that the VX-I scope are better than others in that price range? If so what makes them better?

Maybe you didn't say they all were sub moa, but you did say that all you owned shot better than 1.5" groups. So what kind of groups do you get from yours?

balde

your answer!!!
IMHO!!
just find a decent used BAR in either 270 or the 308! preferably from private party so they can tell you what ammo it likes! im sure you will be happy with it! i love mine! it likes cheap ammo!and it kills em as dead as dead gets!
like i said b4, ive gotten tighter groups [cloverleafs] with mine, but it likes a cool, clean barrel! brought it to the range just to see if it was still on after stilling for a yr and you can see the second group spead out cuz i rushed it and didnt let it cool!
when hunting ive never had to take the 2nd shot! so, no worries
good luck! hope my post helps!

umm.....dont anyone else here go to the range?
show your advice!!

hometheaterman

Also let me ask. Big Country, when you get a product that doesn't perform well do you go out and buy 5 more of them to compare to make sure it's not just a lemon? Or do you read reviews online, or talk to friends that own the same product and ask to compare theirs to yours, or ask their experiences?

bigcountry

So, you have owned a vortex? I see you comment quite a bit on that?

Who cares about your little VX1. It was one scope. Move on. You comment on VXIII's and Mark4's and have yet to own any. Simple, rule, if you don't own it, don't comment on it. Simple.

Exactly, its a 30 year old technology scope that ran its course. Treat it as such.

Because you haven't. Sure read about it, but thats about it.

Nobody said it was a target shooter. But you continue to show how much full of it you are saying, I and others say they all are subMOA shooters. Real simple, quit being a piece of crap liar. Simple

Who cares about VX-I scopes???? They are junk, and I don't own any scope in the 100-150 dollar range.

I have yet to see too many guns I couldn't get to shoot well. Maybe when I was a newbie reloader. I have tweeked my COL and get avg. of 1MOA. Minimal effort really.

Not saying they all would be that easy. But you go on here and make statements like "they are all inaccurate". Or 98% of the people you talk too tell you how bad they are.

hometheaterman

So you basically just admitted that you know nothing about the VX-I scopes, yet when I post my experiences with them, you come out saying I'm full of it for bashing Leupold. While I don't own any VX-III's, I've used them and I've compared the glass to others. They are decent scopes, but you can get better glass for the money from other scope companies. With the Mark 4's, you can step up into Nightforces for not much more, and they are tons better scopes. It's not that the Mark 4's are bad, it's just that why would you spend that much on one when for a little extra you could get a scope that was a ton better.

Go ahead and post up your targets of your 1" groups. I'd like to see them. The above target doesn't look like 1" groups to me. I could be wrong, but it looks more like my groups do when I shoot 1.5"-1.75" groups.

Big Uncle

I will not waste much of my time on this, but since you have asked you must either truly want to know - or are looking for some excuse to write yet another self serving and verbose post.

1. Trashing another hunter's equipment is offensive. You do this with tiresome regularity.
2. I do not think that you have much actual experience or expertise (not just something you read on another internet forum). Perhaps you have both, but I doubt it. If so, your style of communication must be the thing that is causing substantial doubts.

It might be best to stop the trashing, and participate in a more positive manner.

bigcountry

I make an educated decision. I find the problem. Many ways to do this.

I am fortunate enough to know a good gunsmith, I live close too. Its nice having spare scopes around that you can trust. Simple stuff first, good crowns, even pressure on lugs, borescoping. There is always a reason why a gun is a lemon. Just find out why.

Don't have to spend days on the internet getting equal crummy opinions from folks who did the same thing you did feeding off "friends experience".

hometheaterman

Well, I'm not going to recommend something that's got a well known design flaw to a poster on this forum asking for recommendations just because another member owns it and might get offended. Just like I wouldn't want other members to come on here and recommend crap to me just because they are afraid if they tell me that's it's crap they might offend another poster.

As for the BAR I should also point out that I've shot 1" groups with mine and even under 1" groups, but it won't do it on a regular basis. However, if you fire enough groups you are bound to get one that's small.

bigcountry

So what would posting up 1" targets do for you? I am really not the one here that needs to defend my opinion. Just saying.

Do you understand what working up a load is? I couldn't imagine taking pictures of every target I shoot. Only reason I took the picture of the one I did for you was, you asked.

Since then, you have proved yourself a real hoser.