help me choose a rifle and caliber for deer hunting
 

Hi I am new to this site and I had a few questions. I recently got into deer hunting and went last weekend. I used my shotgun (remingtion 870 12 guage) I only saw one small doe and didnt take a shot. I would love to get a real deer rifle because I only want to use the shotgun for turkey hunting and trap shooting. I live right in the middle of missouri so im not really sure if we have big, medium, or small deer. Ive been doing a lot of research and there are a few rifles that Ive come across. So far my top two picks are a marlin xs7 or a marlin xl7. My freind also has a mossberg 270 and its really nice but Im still deciding. My price range really isnt much I cant spend over 400 dollars and it would be nice to have a scope too for under that price. But first I have a few questions, whats the difference between the xs7 and xl7 besides the short and long bolt throw? What is the differences between a short and long throw bolt? What is the best length barrel to get for most accuracy and velocity?

Now the question is what caliber to get? Ive been reading a lot and everyone is saying the 30-06 is the way to go but that seems really big and I want somthing that is fun to shoot and wont kill my shoulder. So far its in between a .270 and a .308, and im leaning more towards the .308. Could you guys tell me the differences between the two I hear that they really arent that different?

Where I hunt isnt very dense brush just trees and bushes so Im not really worried about a few extra inches of barrel. If you guys need to know anything else to help me make my selection please feel free to ask and recomend anything you think is better.

Easy answer;

BTW – “most” commonly published ballistics are from a 24” barrel.

Take a look at these;

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=117270

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=117249

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=113410

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=87768

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=99595

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=90826

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=86358

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=86703

If you just got into deer hunting, don't have a bunch of money to spend, but already posses a shotgun.
Get a rifled slug barrel with a cantilevered scope mount.
You could go get another gun, but why? You own a perfectly good weapon, that is more than capable of killing any deer within a reasonable range. Slug barrels are far cheaper than buying another gun, and if you decide that deer hunting isn't for you, your not out another 400, for a gun you won't use again.

double post

I like the Winchester model 70 Featherweight in 7-08 myself.A little less recoil than the .308 with better ballisitics.

check out the new TC Venture!!! comes in many calibers for Whitetail and a M.O.A of under a inch at 100 yds.
you can buy one for around $400 a great gun and quality made.
www.tcarms.com

Imo the Marlin XL-7 or XS-7 is a good choice, however, not the best in that price range. IMO the Savage Model 10 or 110 depending on long or short action is a lot better choice in the same price range. Make sure you get the one with the Accu Trigger though. Walmart sells the Savage Model 10 and 110 for $387 at the one nearby us. The one in the next town over is $397, but they are always under $400. They come as a package deal with a Simmons 3-9x40 scope which is decent. When I say decent, the glass is decent, and they seem to work okay for the most part. They should get you by for a season or two until you can afford a better scope. This rifle also comes with a sling, and is the one that has the accu trigger. This really is a great rifle for a great price. IMO you can't beat the accu trigger with a factory trigger, and you get a great quality rifle, that's also easy to change barrels on should you ever want to all for under $400.

I'd stay away from the Savage Edge rifles though. IMO they are more along the lines of the Remington 770. Maybe slightly better. Those two are rifles I'd stay away from.


However, if you don't like the Savage for some reason the next best choice imo is the Marlin XL-7/XS-7 rifles you are looking at. These are decent rifles, but just not as good as the Savage imo.

As for the Mossberg, I've read some decent reports, and some bad reports. The issues with the bolt flying apart and injuring shooters concerned me enough that I wouldn't buy one. I hope that they have this fixed. Other than that issue, I still wouldn't buy one as while they may be decent, the Savage or Marlin rifles are just soo much better of a rifle for the price. There is no comparison in quality and the price is very similar.

Another popular option is the Stevens 200. This is the older Savage Model 10 before the accu trigger models came out. These are good guns, although the trigger isn't great. IMO though this isn't the best buy out there, just because they often run around $300-320 depending on where you get it. So for not much more you can get a much better trigger, a scope, and a sling. However, if you found one of these cheap enough, it might be a good deal. I think the Marlin is also a better buy than this.


As for calibers, it's really a personal preference. 30-06 is probably the most versatile caliber. You can take pretty much any game you could want to in North America. You get tons of bullet choices from both factory rounds or reloads. You can pretty much find ammo anywhere. Even most country stores that only have a couple of boxes of ammo usually have 30-06 ammo. It's just super popular and there is a good reason for it. Ammo prices are also pretty decent on it.
The 308 is very very close ballistic wise to the 30-06. They use the same bullet, just a difference case. One is often chambered in a long action one in a short action. Both are great choices, although I prefer the 30-06 just for ammo availability. The recoil on a 30-06 is there and it's not something I'd want to shoot all day long, but at the same time it's fine if you are just going to sight it in and then go hunting with it.

The .270 is also another very popular choice and is a good choice. Ammo is common for this also, but not as common as 30-06. The recoil on a .270 is more than what I'd want on a rifle I was going to shoot all day, but as said with the 30-06 it's fine for sighting it in then hunting with it.

The 25-06 is another caliber to consider. Recoil is heavy on some rifle, and mild on others. Just depends on the weight and stock style of the rifle. This is basically a 30-06 case necked down to hold a 25 caliber bullet. It's a very flat shooting round and good for long range.

Now if you want something you can target shoot all day long and still hunt with the two biggest calibers I'd look at would be the .243 Winchester, or the 7mm-08. Both are good calibers and based off of the 308. They are 308 cases necked down for a 7mm bullet or a 6mm bullet for the .243. They are plenty for deer sized game, although if planning a trip to Africa and hunting large game I'd want something more. I really like both of these calibers. Ammo is pretty common for the .243 and you can find it for the 7mm-08, but it's no where near as common as .243 much less something like a 30-06. Both have relatively light recoil.

So those are my opinions on several of the popular calibers. It's hard to say what the get as everyone likes something different. I have a friend that won't shoot anything but a .270, yet I have several friends that have switched from .270's to .243 just because of the lighter recoil. Then I've got guys that don't want anymore than a 30-30, or friends that only will shoot .280's, or 30-06's. It basically just all comes down to what you personally like. Most of them are good enough, and for deer it's not like one's a ton better than another.

Very well put.

I have used a Glenfield .30-.30 for the last 30 years. Always brings them down, cheap to shoot, and good for 100+ yard shot with a little practice.

I have shot deer at 300 yards with it before but I used to practice the shot for fun.

ps...Had to scope it two years ago....eyesight is not what it used to be.

I hear mossberg has improved on there bolt on the 4x4 and the ATR 100 model
The marlin was on my mind I read a lot of great reviews on the rifle.
I would not Waite to purchase one only because Remington took over marlin:I would prefer a gun made by marlin instead of rem:
I would favor the 308 more then enough for game and yet not that bad on recoil.
The 270 a great round but I never cared for the sharp recoil
I shoot the 30-06 but I down load to around 2600 fps make it a lot less recoil compared to the 2900 fps factory round and the 165 gr. bullet

thanks for all the help guys.

My Mossberg shoots just fine and, so far, the bolt hasn't blown up on me. I have also heard great things about the Weatherby Vanguard, which should be in the same price range. I was not able to find one around town and the Mossberg was on sale (with their new LBTrigger :D) so I decided to go with it. I shoot the .308, but mostly because I wanted something that would take down a deer at longer ranges but would put an elk down at around 200 yards. But if you're sticking to the Missouri woods I would go with what hometheaterman said and stick with something smaller like a .243 or the .270. Ammo is plenty for both and neither your shoulder nor the deer's will be mauled by them. This isn't to say that there aren't any monsters out there in Missouri (F&S labeled you guys as their top sleeper state this year) but you probably won't need a 30 caliber to get the job done.
~~Brasky

Do yourself a favor and pick up Browning A-Bolt Medallion in .270 Win.

I second spending some $ on a rifled slug barrel with a cantilevered barrel. It will give you an extremely versatile multi function weapon and it can serve as an excellent back up for when you do have a rifle for deer.

If you really want to get a rifle and want to save as much as possible look for a good deal on a used rifle of choice. A Savage 110 / 111 or xl7 or xs7 in 308 is a very sensible choice. But it would be hard to pass up a good deal on any calibers like 308, 30/06, 243, 7mm/08, and many others.

If you really want to buy something go to a big box sporting goods store so you can handle and shoulder as many as possible and learn about all the features. Then buy wherever the best deal is offered. But used is always a great option and can lead to some great deals if you are patient.

If you want a great looking rifle, with beautiful wood, and just an all around good rifle, I like Brownings a lot. However, it's not often you can find one for under $400 which is why I didn't recommend one. That being said, I've yet to see one any more accurate than a Savage, and I've seen several that aren't as accurate. As far as accuracy, and just an all around quality rifle, the Browning doesn't beat the Savage and usually isn't as accurate. However, the Savage is basically a no frills rifle with a cheap feeling synthetic stock while the Brownings often have beautiful wood on them. That's basically what you are paying for with the Browning. If you don't want the fancy wood and deep gloss bluing, no need to spend the extra on a Browning.

I own both, how many have you owned? I have always got submoa out of brownings. But so have I with savage 110's.

Isn't everybody supposed to start off with a 30-30? LOL, although a lot of people will knock it and say that it isn't the best choice, it isn't an underpowered deer wounding weapon that a lot of people have come to believe. Actually the 30-30 has only gotten better with age, and with the new Lever Evolution ammo it is a true 200-250 yard weapon. Ammo is cheap and recoil is easy on the shoulder.

Never owned a Browning bolt action, but have several friends that do. That being said, when I said more accurate, I don't mean by much. Both the Savages and Brownings have been sub moa. .8"-1" groups seem to be about the average for the Browning bolt actions I've seen. I've also seen several Savages that would shoot .5-.8" groups. So it's very very close. Then again, I've also seen older Savages that shot 1" groups and that was the best they could do. So I guess it depends on the gun you get. Both are very accurate, I just don't think the Browning is any more accurate, and I've seen several that weren't quite as accurate, but at the same time it's been very close, so it could have been the shooter.

Another thought, hammer, if you have been shooting slugs, I really wouldn't worry too much about the recoil of the calibers you have been thinking of. The average slug kicks about as hard as a .375 H&H mag, so if you are leaning toward the .308 or the '06 either should still be a relief to your shoulder.

Excellent point about the recoil.

And Hammer, if you do end up staying with the shotgun set-up you might be surprised that some of the lower powered decent slugs (with a lower recoil rate) may be just as accurate or more so in your shotgun, regardless of the type of slug or barrel you are using. Its amazing how a more comfortable gun will produce a more accurate shooter.
You don't need the heaviest slug with the greatest amount of powder to knock down a deer.

the Mossberg ATR 100 is a good straight shooting rifle!! I bought mine 4 yrs ago at Walmart for $221 and I put a quality Nikon scope on it with new sling,and Limbsaver recoil pad to take the punch away of the 30.06...no bolt blowing up here!!!

Three pages so far, and, basically, the guy had a pretty good idea from the get go... The Marlin XL-7 and the Marlin XS-7 are an excellent choice. According to every review I've seen, it packs great performance for the price. The XL, long action, is chambered for lengthier cartridges, i.e. .25-06, .270, and .30-06. The XS, short action, is chambered for shorter cartridges, i.e. .243, 7mm-08, and .308. If you're worried about recoil, the smaller the caliber the less the kick. The short action cartridges all kick less than their long action counterparts. If I were the original poster, I'd be looking at the XS-7 in .243 or 7mm-08...

You can get a pretty good idea of the relative recoil of the various cartridges here:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

This is the only thing you've said that makes any sense at all. Accuracy is more about the shooter than about the gun. In my experience, every gun I have owned has been more accurate than I am.

I would not buy anything gun...I have the same gun as you..It shoots rifled slugs OUTSTANDING when you screw in the Improved Cylinder...I would buy the Gobble Dot..that fit on your ventilated rib on top of the barrell.I learned all this from a friend in Missouri...by the way.central Missouri has decent deer..they are smaller in the south east.OZARKS..that gun will put rifled slugs in a 3 inch circle at 100yds..ONCE YOU GET THE GOBBLE DOT site correct

If money is no problem...I'd recommend the 270 with a decent scope..When I was in Missouri...I hunted in THICk stuff where an 870 is perfect..but if your hunting open fields..I'd go 270 for sure..

I've been thinking about your guys post and now I'm open to a 3006. I shoot a lot of turkey rounds and some slugs and I don't think the recoil would be as bad. I'm torn between the .270 .308 and the 3006. My friend has a 270 and it's all right but I like .308s a lot more. I've never shot a 3006 but on the internet that's what everyone is recommending. I was just wondering which would be the best choice for me. I went and held a marlin xs7 and xl7 at my local sporting store and loved both of them. The guy there said he had a xs7 and a savage edge, he was trying to talk me into a edge but I heard somewhere to stay away from them so what do you all think.

Between the two, I'd definitely go for the Marlin. The Edge is, quite possibly, the ugliest rifle on the planet...

You might want to compare the ballistics of a 140 gr. 7mm-08 vs. a 150 gr. .308 or .30-06. Milder recoil (very noticeably less than the '06). Flatter shooting. Better ballistic coefficient. More retained energy on longer shots...

i would take a look at Savage or Marlin in the 308. I absolutely LOVE the 308. i have a 30-30, 30.06, and a 7mm-08 and i always find that my 308 just works. The recoil of a 308 is nothing. my nephew shots one and he is in 8th grade. Trust me, after a slug gun the 308 feels like a 22 lr and has plenty of power and bullet options available. Even at the big box stores.

Ahh, the battle between .308 and .30-06 is here again!:rock:

I would say that unless you're shooting over 400 yards or you see yourself hunting elk or moose at long range, the differences between the two are negligible. The only other slight differences are going to be in power and accuracy. Short actions like the .308 have a fatter case that allows for more uniform gas expansion at the expense of a few grains of powder. And as much as .30-06 fans hate to admit it, the nature of the case makes the .308 a (slightly) more consistent cartridge. The long-action '06 can push bigger bullets faster and farther, but the (slight) differences between bullets, boxes and brands are going to be (slightly) less consistent because a narrower case means more surface area for the gasses to collide against with less area to expand before the bullet leaves the muzzle. With that extra power, though, and as much as .308 fans like myself hate to admit, the .30-06 shoots (slightly) flatter than the .308 and requires (slightly) less compensation for drop and has a (slightly) longer terminal range than a .308. Keeping that in mind, for how often I have used a variation of the word "slight" in this post should convey some sort of idea that these two cartridges are essentially the same. Same bullet, same uses, same successful military tenure. The important thing is that you pick one and then really get to know it.

~BillBrasky!!!

I would choose the wickedly accurate and equally legendary .308 winchester for a cartridge. The rifle brand would be Savage.

My Savage .308 did this earlier this fall from a bench rest at 100 yards. I have since tweaked the elevation turret "up" 4 clicks, so it's an inch high at 100 yards. :s1: