Choosing the perfect Caliber
 

Hi guys, this is my first time on this forum and I would like to get your alls input on something. I need some help on deciding which caliber rifle I want to buy. Now, I did do some searching, and have learned quite a bit about which calibers are good for what I want to do, but I have an additional factor thats needs to be thought about. Recoil.

Here's where I'm at. I live on the Eastern Shore of Maryland. Around here about the only thing you need a rifle for is whitetail or sika. So I had a Remington .280, and I loved it. But, the person I had entrusted the storage of my rifles too no longer has them, and I'm left having to start from scratch.

For around here, my .280 was perfect. It also was on the border of respect/fear as far as the recoil goes. See, soaking wet I'm maybe 145 on a good day. I'm a scrawny type dude, with little upper body strength. My .280 had just enough recoil that sometimes I could feel the scope barely touch the hairs on my eyebrow, but not enough to actually hit me.

What I'm looking for is a rifle that can successfully hunt anything in North America, without having more recoil that my .280, and ammo that is reasonable cost($20-40 for a box of 20). So, I'm thinking that I will certainly need a recoil pad for the stock, and a muzzle brake.

I had been leaning toward a .270 Weatherby Magnum, but after some reading on this forum I've decided that a .270 is too small for things such as elk. I have similiary discard a 7mm and 7mm Magnum, due to a 30-06 being ballistically superior with bullets weighing 180gr and above.

Right now I'm thinking that a 30-06 with a muzzle brake and recoil pad would be my best suited choice, but would like the input and suggestions of hunting pros such as you guys for any other cailbres and then a rifle suited to me in the decided-upon caliber.

Thanks!

Whether the .270 is suitable for elk is a loaded issue and sparks fly every time it's bought up.....I'm going to recommend .284 caliber and larger.

Since you mentioned the .30-06, lets discuss it!!!!!

You didn't say you're a handloader so I will assume you could get someone to help with this.....

1. Barnes makes light bullets in .30 caliber that will have great success on deer and very light recoil. Problem is that you might want to reload them! I haven't checked them recently but will bet they have a TSX or TTSX in 120-130 grains which will be pleasant to shoot, have great trajectory, and light recoil.

2. When it comes to bigger than deer animals you have the world at your fingertips!....all the way to 250 grains if you wish.....

3. Install a 1" decelerator pad.....it's all you'll need for recoil protection.

The choice of .30-06 will never be a bad one....it's a superb cartridge and will stand up to anything in North America.....just use the right ammo in it!

Having said that, it's not my recommendation.....You had the best one first.....the .280 Remington.....search gunbroker for a used one or if it fits the checkbook, buy a used .30-06 and rebarrel it! The .280 is a very good choice for what you describe!

ditch the muzzle brake.
recoil pads are a good thing.

a .270win, .280, .30-06 is the same case essentially with different size bullets, so a 280 and '06 are so close IMO.

If you want a step up for an elk rifle, etc... my pick for you would be a .300wsm, anything less would be so close to what you already have so why bother.

A .300wsm could do all of NA well, minus some big brown bears I'd have to say.
I misread...thought you still had a .280, hmmm?

30-06 is the ultimate NA all around.
7mm Rem.Mag. is a good all around as well.

If you really wanted a .270wby mag, get yourself a .270wsm!
btw you can kill an elk with a .270

get a .270 WSM, 7mm Rem.Mag., or .30-06

7mm-08 or .308 will do all that you need to do...Others may do it past 300 yards, but most can't hit past there anyway...

Get a gun you love to shoot, become a great shot and caliber won't be an issue...

If you are staying in Maryland, get a .243, it will make you a much better shot because you can use it on crows, groundhogs, deer, coyotes and other varmints...

270 Weatherby magnum will give complete penetration on elk. I will be flattening another bull on November 2nd with mine.

A 308 Win would be a perfect round for your area. No need for a muzzle brake and you have a very good choice in bullet selection. A magnum is not needed for your hunting situation.

What happened that, the person who you trusted to store your guns no longer has them? Was it a family member, who might have thought they belonged to them?

The choice of the "perfect Caliber" is such a loaded question around here that bringing it up is sometimes frowned upon.

The "perfect caliber" is one that you are comfortable with and that you can shoot well
with.
I personally shoot a 7mm Rem. Mag. and a .243 Winchester equally well, it just depends on where I will be hunting on a given day, and how badly I want to lug around my heavy 7mm.

To me it's not choosing the perfect caliber but the perfect load in a caliber of your opinion. I say opinion because that's all it is. They all will get it done. Even a .243 will consistently kill elk. And if you can't kill elk every time with a .243 then you can't shoot. It's as simple as that. Sounds harsh but the debate of fire power has long grated on the marksman capability to put it where it belongs. The 270 win has became the standard minimum elk cartridge in the recent decades. So anything equal to or above should get a general consensus. I'd buy a 375 H&H if I had any doubts. HEHE

Normally, I would say 7MM Rem Mag.

Once I heard worries of recoil, I suggest you get a .30-06 and work your way up through the lighter loads; until you have confidence in yourself.

I'd take a 7mm Rem Mag over a 30-06 any day. Just sayin...

But anyways. IMO, just pick a 7mm or 30 cal that has enough oomph to it, and let the bullet do the talking. Good bullets are going to make the difference; not whether it's a 30-06 or 280. (though I'm a sucker for 7s)

Take a looksee at: Remington 700, Savage 111, Stevens 200, Ruger 77. I wouldn't have a problem gunning any of those, though I'd prefer the 700.

If you liked the .280 but recoil was borderline a problem then simply get a 7mm-08. To 350 yards it gives up literally nothing to the .280 as factory loaded and it will take any non dangerous game on this continent reliably with out question.


30-06, .270 Weatherby, 300WSM, .270WSM, 7mm mag, 7mmWSM, etc... ALL have more recoil than the .280 Remington.

FORGET about a muzzle brake. The excess noise they create will permanently damage your hearing with a single shot unless you are willing to wear some type of hearing protection in the woods with you when you hunt.

Get a 308 or 7-08 in a rifle that fits you. I have a Savage youth model with a 24 inch barrel that is perfect for my frame. A micro-medallion, Ruger 77 Ultralight, Remington Model 7, etc. should be good for your size. Install a scope properly, and you'll have no trouble with the scope hitting you.

Most guys are carrying rifles that are too long, especially when they have a few layers on for hunting. Install a better recoil pad if you need to, but keep in mind you may need to adjust stock length.

Skip the muzzle brake.

I've got one more observation...I live in North Carolina, I'm 55 and have hunted since I was a youngster...I know loads of hunters that bought a rifle larger than needed for our smaller southern deer with the intention of "going out west"...

1) Most never go...
2) If you can afford to go, you can afford another rifle for elk, or can borrow a buddy's...
3) Most have a flinching problem because they are using more gun than needed...

There is nothing wrong with owning larger caliber rifles...The first centerfire should be one that is adequate, but one that the owner can shoot comfortably so they gain experience and confidence in their ability...

This is a post of great wisdom.......and worthy of note.

I second this opinion. I bought a 30-06 with a muzzlebrake and it split my ears the first time I shot a deer with it. My ears rang like I had been at a concert for hours. I removed the muzzlebrake and put on a solid piece and the problem is solved. Muzzlebrakes are only good if you are going to use hearing protection. I doubt that I will ever own another gun of any kind with a muzzlebrake.

Forget the muzzle break. All you need is a 308 or 30.06. Either will do what you ask. throw in the 7mm-08 if you want even less recoil. I have all 3 and would not feel undergunned with any of them for Elk and certainly not for deer.

If you put a nice recoil pad on the 30.06 it reall tames it. One of my guns came with one and to be honest, i can't usually tell the felt recoil difference between the 06 and the 7mm-08. But that's all you need.

I "third" these comments !

Quote:

"There is nothing wrong with owning larger caliber rifles...The first centerfire should be one that is adequate, but one that the owner can shoot comfortably so they gain experience and confidence in their ability... "


and I "fifth" no muzzle break !!!

Short answer : Already said 7MM-08, or .308 for the recoil shy.

First you complain about the recoil of a 280 Remington and then you talk about wanting to buy a .270 Weatherby Magnum?

You obviously don't know anything about firearms.

The .280 belongs to the 30-06 Springfield class of firearms, since the 25-06, 270 Winchester, 280 Remington, 30-06 and 35 Wheelen are basically the same shell - with a few modifications to make it fit in the proposed caliber rifle it was intended for.

The weight of the bullet and the amount of powder and the type of powder is gong to determine how much the gun kicks to a large extent. Beyond that, unless some type of recoil dampening system and muzzle brake is employed - the recoil for most of that class of gun is going to be the same. As a matter of fact, a heavy rifle should kick less then a light weight / featherweight rifle will.

When you get into Weatherby Magnums you can almost double the felt recoil. It just all depends on which scale you use to measure felt recoil.

I had a .300 Weatherby once and it was made out of a 1917 Enfield rifle which was a very heavy rifle at that time and was the predecessor of the Model 721 Remington rifle which later became the Model 700 Remington.

Rule of thumb is - the further south you go on the eastern side of the USA - the smaller the deer gets. A .280 Remington was a good rifle, enough to handle what you want to do and if you decide to go hunting elk - you can always buy something else or borrow someone else's gun.

My opinion is - if you do not like the recoil of a .280 Remington then don't buy one. But you never feel the recoil when you are shooting at a deer. Only when you are shooting target practice.

Maybe a .243 Winchester would be a better option for you.

A 30-06 is not much better then a .270 Winchester or a .280 Remington when it comes to shooting Elk. Shooting Elk is all about bullet selection and bullet placement. The same is true for hunting deer, bear, turkeys or any other game.

You're kidding .....right?......and you think NAILEZS "You obviously don't know anything about firearms.".....

You actually think the recoil of a .35 Whelen is the same as a .25-06?..... :(

No such thing as the perfect caliber, if there was such a thing I would only own one rifle, one pistol and one shotgun.

Don't go with a magnum anything. You are already borderline with a .280. Pick one of these three .308, 7mm-08 or .270 Win and any game that gets away within 300 yds will be your fault. Get a rifle with a good recoil pad and get in some trigger time.

I have several rifles,,including a 280 and 7mm08 love them both,,if you get a model 7 in 7mm08 you will love it,,I have never used mine for bear,,but have2 buddies that have killed black bear with them. My 1st Canada deer was with a 7mm08 it weighed 350, once more it all comes down to bullet placement,,and if you have a large caliber you may flinch. Good luck hunting this year guys :)

If you are afraid of recoil you could also get a Browning BAR. They are gas operated automatics and have less recoil. I have one in 30-06 and can shoot it all day long. I love it and would never own anything else. It is just as acurate as any out of the box bolt action.

Hey guys, thx for all the great advice. First, everyone says to ditch the muzzle brake, so consider the muzzle brake ditched :s4:

You mentioned the 300WSM, which coincidently, my boss has a Remington R700 XCR 300WSM for sale(for ~$700) that has been Magna-Ported. Now, my 280 just had the stock hard plastic recoil pad on it, and this XCR has a 1 inch think recoil pad, as well as the Magna-Port modification, so I am thinkin that the XCR shouldn't kick much more than my 280. Would I be correct in assuming that? If so than the XCR would probably be the gun I would get(the price doesnt hurt either).

It was a family member. They were on the verge of bankruptsy and sold all of the gun in their possesion(theirs and mine) together to try and get some money. The bad part is that I didnt even find out until a friend and I wanted to go target shooting, and the gun safe was empty.

The last 2 quotes I completely agree with, and I realize that I might be "shooting" a little high in what I want for a caliber size, but I'm doing it for 2 reasons. The first is that, god forbid, my gun slips or something nudges me as I shoot. If I miss where I am aiming but still hit the animal, I dont want it suffering or running. I want it to go down and stay down. Second is that I know I need to train myself and become used to higher calibers, and I'm hoping this is a good starting point.


EDIT: So I just talked to my family member, and they say they can get my rifles back within 2 weeks. So I'm like "YAY!" because I do love my 280, and will put a Limbsaver recoil pad on it as soon as I get it back. But, my questions about that XCR still stand, because I really want that gun!

JMO anything in NA which to me includes the big bears a 300 is marginal. Now if your like most meaning upto and including moose then your 280 is more then capable. So i say instead of buying a mag ported 300wsm that may or may not be too much for your tolerance to recoil...unfortunately you'll only know this by shooting the firearm in question with approriated hunting loads! The suggestion is use the money you would have spent on the boss rifle and get into reloading. This will allow you to tailor your 280 rem for whatever you may hunt today and in the future. I reload for 2-280's which have seen varmits to canadian moose fall. Perfect excuse to become a reloader to enjoy the heck out of the sport and this great cartridge.

addition of a better recoil pad is an option.

Just food for thought.

PS I can't help but wonder if your eye relief on your scope isn't short either by afforded or setup proper? I've seen this happen a lot! Can also be tightening up and not flowing with the shot...on the range, seated, expecting the shot, etc Weight or size has less to do with it, then technique.

I wouldn't mind an extra rifle in 300wsm sitting around for me ;)

Thx for your input! If I do in fact get my 280 back than I will be sticking with that, and getting into reloading might be an option.
As to my scope, I too have been wondering if it is set up properly. But theres not much I can do about that until I get the rifle back. Getting a Limb-saver recoil pad and checking the scope are gonna be the second and third things I do to it, the first being a good cleaning and check over.

7/08 will recoil slightly less than a 280. One thing you have to remember is the lightness of the gun/calibre. The 7/08 is usually lighter than a 280, as the 7/08 can be on a shorter action than the 280. Also, as stated earlier, recoil is subjective. That what you will feel at a targer range, is not the same in the field. However, the targer range recoil CAN lead to flinching, which no one wants. You can drop one step down to a 7mm mauser, a little less recoil that a 7/08 in the same weight rifle, and the most famous elephant hunter ever, Bell, shot all his with a 7mm mauser, with the 173 grain military bullet. Which probably went around 2400 fps. Should be OK for elk/moose. Placement is everything. An 300 winchester placed poorly, is not as good as a lighter calibre placed correctly. You can approximate lighter recoil by reloading, which is a lot of fun and make that 280 into anything you want. And the price of ammo today will quickly pay for a simple reloading outfit.