Something to consider
 

For those who are just getting into hunting, do not feel you have to or should buy a 'long range' caliber for your first hunting rifle. If you happen to miss your target, that long range caliber bullet can have great implications. There is nothing wrong with choosing a good short to medium range brush gun such as a 30-30 as your first hunting rifle for deer. An accurate 30-30 with the proper bullet is capable to about 200 yards on deer. Hornady has stated their 30-30 LEVERevolution ammo is capable of taking deer at 300 yards. Statistics have shown that most deer are taken within 150 yards. Just something to consider.

Most of the deer I take are under a 100 yards ,but I have also taken some at 200 to 300 yards , For that reason I wouldn't think of hunting with a 30-30 when I can get a faster round in a savage for what it costs to buy a good 30-30 .

I agree with you. IMO proper firearms handling and safety precautions should be used whether the new hunter is using an air rifle or a centerfire rifle.

I have to agree 100%. the longest shot I have ever made at a deer is 147 yards and that was with a shotgun. I have made a 119 yard shot with a rifle, but almost ALL my shots at deer have been under 100 yards. My closest shot was 13 yards. You dont need to make 300 yard shots in the hardwoods. Seldom is there ever an opprotunity for a shot longer than 100 yards "in the woods"anyways. If I had my 30-06 at the edge of a beenfeild and seen a nice buck at 900 yards (IF I COULD SEE IT), Im gonna let him walk....and you can bet I won't be stomping my feet home and complaining how I was undergunned. I never understood someone who says that they are undergunned unless it is for dangerous game. I consider it more of a challenge to scout an area out (and get closer to my game) than to snipe a buck at 1000 yards. This is a topic of taboo and probally will never end. Because there will always be that guy that wants to shoot farther...no matter what gun he had in his hand. I am satisfied with ethical shots that dont take 3 seconds to hit their target. Alot can happen in 3 seconds....like another hunter walking out into the line of fire. But thats just me, I might not be the oldest hunter here on the boards, but I remember when I took my hunter safety course and "safety" was still the key. I was also fortunate enough to be taught how to hunt by an "old time" hunter. He taught me when ethics mattered and chauvanism did not. And that a guy who could draw back his 85 pound bow didn't mean squat at deer camp because he was too busy waxing his string while 4 other guys went out with their old 45-50 pound bows and got the job done.....But call me old fashioned:wink:

Well said Country1....and if someone considers any Magnum or WSM Rifles you had better price the shells because they aren't cheap and may not be in-stock at most Hardware or Shooting Stores?

I have had more Deer in at 50-75 yards than out past 100 yards and to be honest with everyone here I don't think I would try shooting a Deer from 200 yards out and further?After Bow Hunting for several years its more of a challenge for me to see just how close I can let a Deer get to me before I shoot it. :D

I enjoy the up close and personal aspect of bowhunting too but are you saying that shooting deer long range is not safe or challenging?

Well what do you consider a "long range caliber"?

I would bet that probably 99%+ of deer are shot at less than 300yds.

300/400yds is a long ways out, but most stand cartridges can certainly take a deer down at 400yds or more. so ya no need for a .300RUM to shoot a deer at 300yds.

I kinda laugh at the "flat shooting cartridge" saying, all bullets drop! some are flatter than others, but it's really not that much more usually, ie dead on at 200yds, at 500yds, whether its a .270wsm, or a .30-06, both are droping lots of inches! it's not like 6" vs. 50"

so ya I think a good ole .270win can drop a deer at 500yds,

For those just getting into hunting, they have no business attempting long range shots (whatever the hxll that is). Learning to hunt and learning to make reasonable shots based on their skills level is what they should be doing. As far as the rest of us, since no definition of "long range" means the same thing to me as it does to someone who hunts in another part of the country 'who's to say'. I happen to really like guns that can reach way the hxll out there. I hunt the open prairies for my deer and getting close means something entirely different to me. Around here a prairie deer can see for several miles in any one direction.

As far as the price of ammo goes, I've handloaded my own for decades the difference between loading for a magnum round and a standard round is pennies.

I don't hunt statistics I hunt big game.................

For the sake of the argument here: Lets assume the new hunter is a very accomplished marksman.....with the rifle he has chosen to hunt with. Should he not take a "long" shot simply because he does not have much experience as a hunter?

How much experience does this 'very accomplished marksman' have shooting targets that may move? Are they able to identify the difference between an alerted animal and one that is relaxed?

Can the new hunter that just bought a 30-30 and can barely hit a pie plate at 100 yards?

I have had a very successful hunting career and in my 33 years of hunting, I have managed to take 200 Whitetail deer.

I have shot every round from the .22 short to the big 375 H&H in my lifetime at paper targets. So I have a pretty fair baseline of knowing ballistics and firepower in the woods.

In all my attempts to shoot whitetails, I have only kicked myself in the butt about missing a deer - maybe 10 times. Out of those 10 times, 5 of those times were due to the optics and not because I was under-gunned.

The one and only time I was under gunned, it was with a .35 Remington and the deer was 300 yards away and Buck Fever took over and my mind was not working like it should. If I would have aimed dead center on the deer on every shot, there was a pretty good chance that I would have hit it sooner or later.

If I would have had more shells and not just the 5 rounds I took with me that day, I would have kept shooting till the buck was down.

If the property next to where I was hunting was not posted, I would have kept after that deer until I got it.

If my aunt would have had a schlong, she would have been my Uncle.

On opening day of rifle season - anywhere for whitetails, I can usually be found carrying a Remington Gamemaster 30-06 or .270

After the opening day of rifle season, I can usually be found carrying a .300 Winchester magnum - if I know that I will be hunting in a open area where long shots presents itself. Or my .270 WSM.
I have a gun for when it is raining, I have a gun for when I am hunting in the open, I have a gun for hunting where it is close up and personal, I have a gun for long shots..

When firepower is in the front of my mind, the '06 and 270 can't be beat. When accuracy is key - the '06 and 270 can't be beat.
But if I want to make sure that if I hit it, it will go down and I won't have to track it or fight with another hunter over who shot it and would it have died if they didn't shoot it after I shot it, the magnum is the way to go.

I only bought the .300 Winchester in case I ever got the chance to go Elk hunting and not because I thought that it was a better gun then the Remington when it came to hunting deer anywhere on the eastern side of the USA!
Maybe it would be a better round for bears.
Most times when you hunt bears, the bear is really close and you have a split second to shoot or not shoot. A 30-30 with open sights is probably a better gun for that situation.

As far as reloading a Magnum for pennies more then the 30-06, I will call you out on that one.

To reload, first you have to buy the die's. Then you have to have the empty shells, then you have to buy Magnum primers. Then you have to have more powder for each round.
The bullets are exactly the same between my 30-06 and a .300 Winchester Magnum, but the factory loads cost twice as much.

Let's say IMR 4350 powder is about $24 a can, for a one pound can.
Let's say, as a example that you can get 100 rounds of '06 shells out of a 1 pound can, depending on how you load the shell.
We can use 58 Grains as a example.

When I move up to a .300 Winchester Magnum, it might take as much as 75 Grains of powder to reload just one shell. Every time I reload (3) - 300 WM - I could have reloaded (4) 30-06's.

First, an ethical hunter knows their limitations and does not shoot beyond that limit. If a person cannot consistently be well within the kill zone, don't take the shot.

Second, a new or inexperience hunter should have a mentor/teacher to help guide them and show them the ins and outs of hunting ethically and safely. A lot of hunting tragedies are due to poor decisions by inexperienced hunters or by carelessness of idiots who do not care about the safety and welfare of others.

It does not sound like you are very proficient with your firearms. Slinging projectiles is not hunting. Are you a real hunter or a PETA activist in disguise? Do everyone (humans and critters) a favor - stay in the house during hunting season.

Nothing wrong with starting out with a 30-30 for a young hunter. I started out myself with a 30-30 and a 25-06. I always thought the 30-30 kicked harder in that ole lever gun when I was young. I still have a 30-30 for those days I want to hunt the trees in the blowing snow. But I also have other calibers for doing that also. There's a ton of calibers out there that make perfect starters. Depends on the person and how much recoil they are tolerable of at first. You sure wouldn't want to hand your young child or wife your 300 RUM and say here try this one out as their very first experience at shooting. I haven't tried out the Leverlution ammo yet but I do have a box of it waiting to go to the range. I'm curious on a 300 yard grouping. We shall see.

JMHO ,Anything over 400 yards is long range hunting.(Stay with me for a minute Ridge.........LOL)And if the truth be known I would guess that at least 85% of the hunters don't even have the skill or the ability to even shoot/hunt that far away.Now ,That being said once you get over 500 or 600 yards you have a whole new ball game.You have to start thinking ballistics,wind drift and a host of other things,B.C.,weather,curvature of the earth,alignment of the stars(J/K) but you get my drift .Pun intended.Anything over 600 or 700 yards is ultra-long range in my opinion.Safety is first and foremost the most important thing.If you see a little brown dot waaaay the hell out there and just start blasting away,you don't have a clue what's around that little brown dot let alone what's behind it.If you can't hit a pie plate off hand at 100 yards you don't need to be shooting 100 yards.If you can't it at 200 from the bench you don't need to be shooting at 200.Like "Dirty Harry" said,"A man has got to know his limitations"Personally I think I am pretty decent shooter.And I probably wont take a 500 yard shot.Conditions would have to be what in my mind should be perfect.I am hesitant to go 300.Most can't even judge 300 without some kind of ranging device.Now I have rifles that are capable of 1000 yards that even Ridge (probably) could not hit with just for the simple fact that they are not set up for that kind of distance,And he is most likely the best ultra-long range hunter on the board.Not questioning his ability but my equipment.Say for instance my 7MM STW with 3.5 X10X50 Leupold Vari-XIII I most likely can hit a deer at 400 or 500 with it but get out to a 1000 and it needs a lot more goodies on it and with it before it would be a true 1000 yard gun.

As much as we all respect and revere experienced hunters, deer hunting REALLY isn't that complicated, and bringing down a deer really isn't that difficult.

There's no secret to putting yourself in the path of big bucks.

I'm no professional hunter, but I've been hunting deer and other big game for well over a decade. Outside of hunting, I'm a precision rifle and handgun competitor, and I have dedicated much of the last 10yrs to helping teach marksmanship skills to others.

The average new shooter/hunter is capable of 3" groups at 100yrds with the average "newbie rifle".

Personally, I think there are 3 things new shooters/hunters need to know: 1) how to recognize their limitations, 2) how to estimate ranges (or where to buy a rangefinder) and 3) how to recognize deer sign and where to place their stands. At the end of the day, a shooter really only needs to know how to get deer in front of them, how to tell HOW far in front of them it is, and how to put a bullet into it.

No magic tricks, just 3 simple steps.