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.300 BAR Poor Groups

Old 09-10-2010, 09:36 AM
  #1  
Spike
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Default .300 BAR Poor Groups

I have a .300 Win Mag BAR, manufactured 1982 in Belgium that my dad bought out of an estate. I had some jamming issues that was recently cured at a reputable gunsmith. Jamming has been fixed, but it doesn't shoot as well as I would like. The gunsmith went through it and everything on the rifle and scope mounts is tight.

Today I took it to the range -(dead still, no rain, 50 degrees) and shot off of a bench at 100 ards with a rifle rest and shot 4 different manufactures ammo's, all 180 gr (the 150's are horrible-4" plus). The rifle itself doesn't have much recoil and shooting it is extremely comfortable. The best group was Federal Vital Shock with a 2 1/2" group, and the poorest was 3 "+ with PMC cheap loads. Winchester Supreme Elite and Remington Accutips were pretty close to the Federals. All groups were in very different areas of the targets.

I'm used to 1" or better groups with my 6mm and 30.06 off a bench. I called the Browning service center and the service reps assessment was for a 1982 firearm, that a 2 1/2" group was as good as to be expected. I find that all very hard to believe as both the guns i regularly shoot are older - one considerably so. Also, my dad knew the original owner and he wasn't an avid shooter that as pooring rounds through this every day.

Is a 2 1/2" group as good as i should expect of of this gun?
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:11 AM
  #2  
bigcountry
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Originally Posted by ftstock
I have a .300 Win Mag BAR, manufactured 1982 in Belgium that my dad bought out of an estate. I had some jamming issues that was recently cured at a reputable gunsmith. Jamming has been fixed, but it doesn't shoot as well as I would like. The gunsmith went through it and everything on the rifle and scope mounts is tight.

Today I took it to the range -(dead still, no rain, 50 degrees) and shot off of a bench at 100 ards with a rifle rest and shot 4 different manufactures ammo's, all 180 gr (the 150's are horrible-4" plus). The rifle itself doesn't have much recoil and shooting it is extremely comfortable. The best group was Federal Vital Shock with a 2 1/2" group, and the poorest was 3 "+ with PMC cheap loads. Winchester Supreme Elite and Remington Accutips were pretty close to the Federals. All groups were in very different areas of the targets.

I'm used to 1" or better groups with my 6mm and 30.06 off a bench. I called the Browning service center and the service reps assessment was for a 1982 firearm, that a 2 1/2" group was as good as to be expected. I find that all very hard to believe as both the guns i regularly shoot are older - one considerably so. Also, my dad knew the original owner and he wasn't an avid shooter that as pooring rounds through this every day.

Is a 2 1/2" group as good as i should expect of of this gun?
IMO, I won't own a gun, even a BAR with 2.5MOA accuracy. IMO, you should expect 1.5MOA out of a semi, and 1MOA out of a bolt after some load development. I even got a 7400 to shoot 1.5MOA.
 
Old 09-10-2010, 11:49 AM
  #3  
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Honestly, I don't know that you will get it any smaller than 2" groups. I've tried everything I can think of with my BAR 30-06, and the best I get is around 2" groups with Federal Fusions. My general consensus after lots of reading is a few guys have BAR's that are very accurate, but the majority have ones that shoot 2-3" groups.
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Old 09-10-2010, 12:04 PM
  #4  
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It's a total crock that a BAR won't shoot smoa. I shot one for over 20 years regularly, and it wasn't uncommon for me to shoot 100 rounds of 180 or 190 grain Hornady's at gophers in a day. It likes hot loads, and will really shoot the Nosler ballistic tips. One year, I actually shot 8 lbs of powder through it. That jamming problem that your gunsmith fixed was probably a removal of the forearm and removal of the nut that keeps the piston where it is suppose to be. then he removed said piston, cleaned it, brushed out the piston's home, and stuck the forearm back on.
Another problem that occasionally occurs is the timing latch gets a burr on it, and then you remove the bolt and remove the burr with a small file, reassemble and you are good to go. Try removing the forearm, use a chisel and remove wood on the heel of the forearm until the forearm will fit in place with no resistance. Then seal the area with a good oil. If it is still not behaving itself, then remove the forearm and get out the dowel and sandpaper. Now, sand out the barrel channel until the forearm will sit in place without touching the barrel. Wrap 2 turns of saran wrap around the barrel where it makes contact with the forearm. Now, mix up some epoxy resin and put a layer of it over the channel in the forearm. Place it back on the rifle, and replace the screw. Snug it until you feel it seat. DO NOT CRANK ON IT! Let it sit 24 hours, remove your forearm, remove the saran wrap, trim up the epoxy that has squeezed out, reassemble , and it will please you immensely.IMR 4831 works well in it, and H 4831 also shined. I found that I had to remove the forearm and clean the piston assembly more often with the Hodgdon. It don't like light bullets. stay heavy.

Last edited by redgreen; 09-10-2010 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 09-10-2010, 03:30 PM
  #5  
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I hesitate to say this, but. As I have aged, I have noticed that the old group of craftsmen have died out. There are fewer and fewer young men going into the the firearm and other business that require the dedication necessary to become an expert. Witness. About 15 years ago I picked up a 5 shot S&W 38 spc. that had been owned by an "expert" pistolero that always slammed the cylinder open and shut. Thats the way the movies do it. Well, thats the best way to bend the carrier there is. Took it to a reputable gunsmith who to fix it wanted to buy a new carrier crane and cylinder rod. Thought about it and before acting on it, a Gun shop in town ran an ad stating bring your S&W's in as there was a S&W rep in their business for one day to do repairs. The S&W rep must have been in his late 60's and there was a line of people waiting. When I handed him the pistol, he looked at it.,just kind of shook his head, picked up what looked like a small brass hammer, turned the cylinder, eyed it and whacked the crane. Closed the cylinder. Turned it again, open it and tapped the cylinder. And handed me back a perfectly aligned 38 spec. and said, no charge. There are fewer and fewer of those men left. I don't know who at Browning you spoke with, but remember one thing. There are Browning craftsmen, but Browning never made a firearm, FN did as well as other manufacturers. But Browning was a distributor of goods, as is Cabellas, Herters, etc.
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:19 PM
  #6  
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When I have called Browning I got told that 2" groups were about all I should expect out of my rifle. Even when I talked to them not knowing the Fusions would shoot that well and I was getting 4" groups I still got that answer. They told me that semi auto's aren't generally as accurate as bolt actions. I've always heard this, and then hearing it again from the company that makes the gun just makes me think this must be true.
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Old 09-11-2010, 05:49 AM
  #7  
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I use to have a 7mm RM BAR that would give me fits some times, but I could get 1.5" groups out of it after I learned a couple ot things about it. Key was that I took longer between shots and made sure that the forearm was tight. I have the same problem out of my Rem. 742 if the forearm gets lose.
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Old 09-11-2010, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hometheaterman
Honestly, I don't know that you will get it any smaller than 2" groups. I've tried everything I can think of with my BAR 30-06, and the best I get is around 2" groups with Federal Fusions. My general consensus after lots of reading is a few guys have BAR's that are very accurate, but the majority have ones that shoot 2-3" groups.
So how if you can't do it, then it can't be done? I am just sayin, you seem to have many issues with things no-one else does from leupold scopes to BARs.
 
Old 09-12-2010, 06:02 PM
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Not saying it can't be done, but I don't think some of the BAR's shoot any better than that no matter what you do to them, unless you change major parts such as the barrel. You might be able to work up a hand load too, but without doing that I don't think some will shoot better than that. Others on the other hand seem to shoot better than that.

I think the BAR's are great guns. They are beautiful, great to hunt with, etc. However, I've come to learn, they aren't bench rest guns, they were made to hunt with and they do a fine job at that. They just don't seem to be sub moa or even moa guns with some exceptions. I'm just being truthful and telling him that he may not get it much better than that. I'm not going to tell him they all shoot sub moa, then have him wonder why his doesn't. I'm not trying to say they aren't good guns or that they have problems. He may be able to get his too shoot better though, and I hope that he can. I just was trying to make it clear, if he can't get it any better he isn't the only one.

As far as Leupold scopes, I'm not the only one that has issues with them. This site is actually one of the few where most members seem to like Leupold. If you go to Opticstalk.com, snipershide.com, or many other similar sites you will see that most people on those sites also think there are a lot better scopes for the money, and quite a few others have had issues with Leupolds too.
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Old 09-12-2010, 06:35 PM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by hometheaterman
I think the BAR's are great guns. They are beautiful, great to hunt with, etc. However, I've come to learn, they aren't bench rest guns, they were made to hunt with and they do a fine job at that.



I agree with that 100%.

I had the pleasure to shoot an as new 25-06 BAR that would'nt ever shoot below 3" groups at 100yds from a vice, rest, or whatever.
That was with factory ammo, since I didn't handload then.
I know with patience and handloads, I could tweak it down.
As it was though, it was still a great hunting rifle.
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