Is it just me?
08-31-2010, 07:49 AM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,519
In the $300 price range, I'd look for a Marlin XL-7 or XS-7 depending on if you get the long or short action. However, that's not with a scope, so you will have to expect to pay extra. You might be able to get a single shot with a scope for $300, but I wouldn't got that route.
The other option if you can afford it is the way I'd go. This option is the Savage Model 10 or 110 depending on caliber that they sell at Walmart as a package deal. It's $387 at our local Walmart, but the price seems to slightly vary depending on the store. It's always been under $400 though. This gun has the accu trigger, which imo is a great trigger. It also comes with a Simmons scope mounted, which seems to be decent. I say decent, as I wouldn't say it's good, but the ones I've seen seem to work and be clear enough for most hunting. They also come with a sling included. This imo is just the best option, then when you can afford it later you can upgrade the scope.
The other option if you can afford it is the way I'd go. This option is the Savage Model 10 or 110 depending on caliber that they sell at Walmart as a package deal. It's $387 at our local Walmart, but the price seems to slightly vary depending on the store. It's always been under $400 though. This gun has the accu trigger, which imo is a great trigger. It also comes with a Simmons scope mounted, which seems to be decent. I say decent, as I wouldn't say it's good, but the ones I've seen seem to work and be clear enough for most hunting. They also come with a sling included. This imo is just the best option, then when you can afford it later you can upgrade the scope.
08-31-2010, 07:53 AM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,445
I've heard only bad things about the newer Remington rifles, like the 710 and newer models.
Assuming you don't mind their looks, a Savage or even a Stevens may be worth looking at. I've only heard a couple reports of issues with these, most say accuracy is better than average. I have Savage in .308 that is a very good shooter.
Assuming you don't mind their looks, a Savage or even a Stevens may be worth looking at. I've only heard a couple reports of issues with these, most say accuracy is better than average. I have Savage in .308 that is a very good shooter.
08-31-2010, 08:31 AM
#14
Fork Horn
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: US South
Posts: 444
Alright sorry in advance for the novel.
Ok im 38 years old and have been raised around guns my whole life. Recently I started doing research for my first hunting rifle. While I own quite a few guns I dont own huntin rifle that would be good on larger game.(deer, elk etc...)
There are more threads in more forums than one can imagine discussing and arguing all the different calibers one can use. The best is this and the best is that sort of stuff.
Being an engineer I like numbers and data so naturally those are the sort of things I gravitate to. After scouring through just about any data that would be applicable to my situation it finally dawned on me.
All the reccomended calibers are basically all the same! With a few exceptions they are all basically the same. If you look at the average energies carried downrange and average speeds most are not really different at all. Plus or minus a few hundred pounds and plus or minus 20 or 30 yards. From .270 (and somewhat even the .243) up to .308 and slightly beyond.
My dad has bagged untold whitetail and even elk for over 30 years with the same .243. This tells me using the right bullet and proper shot placement is the key factor here and not what superdupermagnumboattailWSM rifle you have.
What got me started on this is a good friend of mine who is an avid and skilled hunter wants me to come visit him at some point and do a little huntin. I told him I would look around and find me a rifle.
I had settled on a .270. He said "nnnnnnoooooooo you want to go with a .308 or a 7mm mag". When I asked why he said that the 308 is "inherently more accurate" and "Why do you think snipers use it". This is the kind of stuff that trips my trigger... so to speak.
Snipers use it as it mandated by NATO, and inherently more accurate is horse@#$!. Accuracy has many factors, and being .308 is not one of them.
After pouring over many charts I have come to this conclusion,pick the one you can find the best deal on when your looking to buy and learn to use it. While I may very well end up with one of those rifles it will be only because I got a good deal and ammo is cheap and plentiful.
So now the search for a decently built rifle for around 300 bux in whatever caliber, new or used.
Ok im 38 years old and have been raised around guns my whole life. Recently I started doing research for my first hunting rifle. While I own quite a few guns I dont own huntin rifle that would be good on larger game.(deer, elk etc...)
There are more threads in more forums than one can imagine discussing and arguing all the different calibers one can use. The best is this and the best is that sort of stuff.
Being an engineer I like numbers and data so naturally those are the sort of things I gravitate to. After scouring through just about any data that would be applicable to my situation it finally dawned on me.
All the reccomended calibers are basically all the same! With a few exceptions they are all basically the same. If you look at the average energies carried downrange and average speeds most are not really different at all. Plus or minus a few hundred pounds and plus or minus 20 or 30 yards. From .270 (and somewhat even the .243) up to .308 and slightly beyond.
My dad has bagged untold whitetail and even elk for over 30 years with the same .243. This tells me using the right bullet and proper shot placement is the key factor here and not what superdupermagnumboattailWSM rifle you have.
What got me started on this is a good friend of mine who is an avid and skilled hunter wants me to come visit him at some point and do a little huntin. I told him I would look around and find me a rifle.
I had settled on a .270. He said "nnnnnnoooooooo you want to go with a .308 or a 7mm mag". When I asked why he said that the 308 is "inherently more accurate" and "Why do you think snipers use it". This is the kind of stuff that trips my trigger... so to speak.
Snipers use it as it mandated by NATO, and inherently more accurate is horse@#$!. Accuracy has many factors, and being .308 is not one of them.
After pouring over many charts I have come to this conclusion,pick the one you can find the best deal on when your looking to buy and learn to use it. While I may very well end up with one of those rifles it will be only because I got a good deal and ammo is cheap and plentiful.
So now the search for a decently built rifle for around 300 bux in whatever caliber, new or used.
ThunderStik,
I'm also an Engineer. I can do the numbers on recoil, velocity, energy, etc., too. I also reload using a chrony to measure velocity and a caliber to measure fired cases cause that's what we do - Collect and analyze numbers.
But one thing I've learned in my career is to stop and make time to listen to experience.
08-31-2010, 08:49 AM
#15
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9
Ray, like I said earlier, I will be the first to say I have no experience in the arena of larger caliber rifles. And yes I will listen to what anybody has to say especially experienced hunters.
But people will loose me quickly when things dont add up or make sense or say things like more "inherently accurate".
I have a fair bit of experience guns but all in smaller calibers and a few handguns and shotguns. And having that I realize that only the basics really transfer over. Thats why im here, to gain more knowledge on the subject from people who have far more experience than I.
But people will loose me quickly when things dont add up or make sense or say things like more "inherently accurate".
I have a fair bit of experience guns but all in smaller calibers and a few handguns and shotguns. And having that I realize that only the basics really transfer over. Thats why im here, to gain more knowledge on the subject from people who have far more experience than I.
08-31-2010, 11:16 AM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Western Nebraska
Posts: 3,393
Hey thunderstick....you're doing well by not buying into all the baloney that is posted on the forums.....some is good....some is strictly opinion and nothing to support it.
Since you're an engineer then I can assume you have a basic understanding of statistics.....and this allows some to understand why one will say "XXX" is good and the next to say "XXX" isn't good. One had good experience and the other didn't.....only after reading hundreds of posts can you begin to separate truth from opinion.....and I seriously don't think anyone is pulling your leg!
You have expressed an interest in a $300 rifle for big game to include elk.....sorry.....ain't likely to happen!
Cruise the used racks and up your anti to $400 and you have a chance of finding exactly what you are looking for.
Now....here's just one man's opinion.....and BTW I've hunted elk with a 7mm Magnum, a .308 Winchester, a .30-06, a .375 H&H, and a .300 Win Mag....that said I consider the .270 Winchester to be adequate but a minimum for elk.....the nice thing is that it's a great deer and pronghorn rifle!
I consider the .338 Win Mag to be adequate but quite a bit more than needed.....it's recoil is similar to the .375 H&H IMO.....The nice thing is that should you need to defend yourself from a "Griz", you'll be happy you had a .338 Mag.
Further IMO the cartridge that best fits the need is almost obsolete.....the .280 Remington. It's easy to make one in a light weight rifle and does as fine with deer and pronghorns and with 175 grain (premium) bullets will fill the freezer with elk as well as anything. Sadly they are few and far between.....which is why I made my own!
Hold on now as everyone detests this.....find a used .30-06!!!! Boring?....sure....but there's a reason it's so popular.....it works and works fine!.....and there's a good chance of finding one for the $400 figure in a used Remington or M-70 or other decent rifle.
Since you're an engineer then I can assume you have a basic understanding of statistics.....and this allows some to understand why one will say "XXX" is good and the next to say "XXX" isn't good. One had good experience and the other didn't.....only after reading hundreds of posts can you begin to separate truth from opinion.....and I seriously don't think anyone is pulling your leg!
You have expressed an interest in a $300 rifle for big game to include elk.....sorry.....ain't likely to happen!
Cruise the used racks and up your anti to $400 and you have a chance of finding exactly what you are looking for.
Now....here's just one man's opinion.....and BTW I've hunted elk with a 7mm Magnum, a .308 Winchester, a .30-06, a .375 H&H, and a .300 Win Mag....that said I consider the .270 Winchester to be adequate but a minimum for elk.....the nice thing is that it's a great deer and pronghorn rifle!
I consider the .338 Win Mag to be adequate but quite a bit more than needed.....it's recoil is similar to the .375 H&H IMO.....The nice thing is that should you need to defend yourself from a "Griz", you'll be happy you had a .338 Mag.
Further IMO the cartridge that best fits the need is almost obsolete.....the .280 Remington. It's easy to make one in a light weight rifle and does as fine with deer and pronghorns and with 175 grain (premium) bullets will fill the freezer with elk as well as anything. Sadly they are few and far between.....which is why I made my own!
Hold on now as everyone detests this.....find a used .30-06!!!! Boring?....sure....but there's a reason it's so popular.....it works and works fine!.....and there's a good chance of finding one for the $400 figure in a used Remington or M-70 or other decent rifle.
08-31-2010, 11:29 AM
#17
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: IL
Posts: 6,575
with all things being equal I'm sure some cartridges are naturally easier to shoot accurately, i have heard the .308 is one of them, which to me means it's just a well designed cartridge.
As well there are probably some other cartridges that are less likely or well designed to be accurate.
I think this matters very little when we're talking about a hunting rifle, that most of us won't ever shoot past 200-300yds at a game animal.
buying a quality accurate rifle is probably more important for a 200-300yd deer rifle than buying a inherently accurate cartridge.
ie I'd take a less inherently accurate cartridge probably in a quality rifle than a POS rifle in a .308, course both might shoot the same.
I agree a lot of cartridges have overlap, though nothing is every cut and dry for the most part.
Short action vs. long action.
belted vs. beltless
someone could probably make an argument against any vs. the other.
oh and btw...your friend.....get a .308 or 7mm mag instead of a .270? the .270 is also known as a "Very accurate" cartridge. I've heard of accurate 7mm mags, but I'd say I've heard more about the 270 being accurate than I have the 7mm. regardless both I'm sure are capable of being accurate, depending on load, rifle, etc...
also the numbers....velocity, energy, don't always tell the whole story, ie you can get a .243 bullet going fast enough to generate the same energy as a .338 bullet moving much slower, so same energies, but which would you rather us on an elk moose etc...? the .338! bullet weight/momentum tell a different story often times...
As well there are probably some other cartridges that are less likely or well designed to be accurate.
I think this matters very little when we're talking about a hunting rifle, that most of us won't ever shoot past 200-300yds at a game animal.
buying a quality accurate rifle is probably more important for a 200-300yd deer rifle than buying a inherently accurate cartridge.
ie I'd take a less inherently accurate cartridge probably in a quality rifle than a POS rifle in a .308, course both might shoot the same.
I agree a lot of cartridges have overlap, though nothing is every cut and dry for the most part.
Short action vs. long action.
belted vs. beltless
someone could probably make an argument against any vs. the other.
oh and btw...your friend.....get a .308 or 7mm mag instead of a .270? the .270 is also known as a "Very accurate" cartridge. I've heard of accurate 7mm mags, but I'd say I've heard more about the 270 being accurate than I have the 7mm. regardless both I'm sure are capable of being accurate, depending on load, rifle, etc...
also the numbers....velocity, energy, don't always tell the whole story, ie you can get a .243 bullet going fast enough to generate the same energy as a .338 bullet moving much slower, so same energies, but which would you rather us on an elk moose etc...? the .338! bullet weight/momentum tell a different story often times...
Last edited by salukipv1; 08-31-2010 at 11:43 AM.
08-31-2010, 12:14 PM
#18
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9
also the numbers....velocity, energy, don't always tell the whole story, ie you can get a .243 bullet going fast enough to generate the same energy as a .338 bullet moving much slower, so same energies, but which would you rather us on an elk moose etc...? the .338! bullet weight/momentum tell a different story often times...
I think the "properly chosen bullet" is a big thing here though. If you choose a round that is meant to open up at lower velocities on a tougher animal then that could cause some problems.
08-31-2010, 02:07 PM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,926
Whatever the buyer wanted
When I sold rifles, I sold quite a range for deer hunting in the east.
It had nothing to do with what I used, I wanted, but the opinion of the buyer, even newbies.
As long as their opinion covered one of some 15 calibers, I knew hunters would be satisfied, if they learned how to shoot it.
"Now, that's a great caliber, son. A great caliber."
And it was. Just had a bunch of great calibers for the hunter.
It had nothing to do with what I used, I wanted, but the opinion of the buyer, even newbies.
As long as their opinion covered one of some 15 calibers, I knew hunters would be satisfied, if they learned how to shoot it.
"Now, that's a great caliber, son. A great caliber."
And it was. Just had a bunch of great calibers for the hunter.
08-31-2010, 03:23 PM
#20
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 179
look just go to the range and do alittle shooting hang around and ask a few guys if you can shoot a couple and explain why..most hunters will not even think about it.. then when you find one you like go shopping..and stay away from big shops you'll pay through the nose..