Short action VS Long action
 

If you believe in the axiom; one shot, one kill.

Please explain the “benefits” of a short action versus a long action on a bolt action rifle ?

In terms of speed, what do you think the difference is in ranking the next round ?

In terms of weight, what do you think the difference is in a production rifle?

SA aprox 8oz less, LA about 150fps. Ill take lighter and shorter anyday.

How do you figure that? A .270 WSM will outrun a .270 Win anyday...

with the short mags, you can now have both, short/lightweight and velocity.

270WSM
300WSM

you said ranking the next round? ie racking a new round or reloading a 2nd round?

I think you can chamber a new round very fast with either if you wanted to, course a short action with a short bolt rise should be faster than a LA 90 degree. But really does .3 secs vs. .5 secs matter? etc...?

A lot of these guys on hunting shows take 2 minutes to chamber a 2nd round...haha.

I think they're talking .308 vs. .30-06
7mm-08 vs. 280

Personally I prefer a long action for several reasons. The extra powder capacity is nice to have as a reloader. Second when I purchase a rifle im thinking ahead of its current use, such as when this barrel is shot out what am I going to chamber it for. Long actions leave your options open for future projects as you can chamber them for a shorter cartridge but you cant stretch a short action if you suddenly fell the need to build a rifle based on a long action cartridge. Bolt throw time is negligible and as hunters we arent ever gonna really notice 6 to 8 ounces of weight.

The "short mag" me too chamberings are the exception not the rule.

]double post delete

The short magnum cartridges dont kill game any faster or any deader than a 30/30. Dead is dead. If not for the "magnum" marketing craze I doubt they would be as popular as they are. The only benefit they offer over a traditional magnum is case length and Im not terribly sure thats a benefit.

Agreed, not to mention the feeding issues in non crf rifles.

Not really though, you get -1" due to the sort action but + 2" w/ the needed 24" magnum barrel.

That said, I dont know why anyone but the most dedicated long range western hunters would want a magnum cartridge these days, the ammo costs (3 years ago) alone made me sell my 7mag, and the WSMs? Those are 10$ more per box compared to regular mags, and about 20$ more than std calibers. shot to shot reloading costs, same thing. Pure waste of money IMO. my lil 7-08 is light, short, pleasant to shoot from the bench, and cost much less to shoot compared to a mag. As far as ballistics and power, the extra powder capacity is way overrated. zeroed at 140yds , im a couple inches low at 200yds and the 150gr .284 impacts doing 2200fps ,@ 200yds ,when launched at a modest 2600fps. What more do you need to kill most NA game?

Absolutely nothing, and you dont have a flinching problem or need a controlled round feed action to feed properly.

What does the length of the action of the rifle have to do with the killing power of the bullet when it gets to the animal?

Not so much speed as it is not short stroking the longer cartridge in a high adrenaline and an excited condition.

6-8 ounces. Not enough to matter.

I was making more of the point of a short mag is a short action round, but has the velocity of LA rounds like the .270win, or .300win.mag, when comparing them to the .270wsm and .300wsm.

I agree. The last thing the market needed was more new cartridges to sell more rifles. The gamut of cartridges today are plenty. Just look at the number of variants in 7MM that were available BEFORE the SM's came on the scene. What does the 7mm WSM bring to the table that the 284 Win. lacks?

Not true at all for a reloader.

Tom

I agree, mostly sales hype. I have been hunting the coal regions since I was a kid. The most popular rifle there was probably the lever action in 30-30 or .35 Rem. We probably would have never heard of the .270 with out magazine articles. Now with T.V. added in, I see some of the most ridicules calibers being carried for short range shooting in laurel thickets.

There's really no difference as far as the shorter action being better for fast follow up shots.As others mentioned the real advantage is the lighter weight humpin up/down mountains after some smart ass goat or whatever that would enjoy a good laugh watching some fool hunter tumble on down.

I don't believe that the length or velocity should be the overall deciding factor in a hunter's choice.

I know I have always favored short carbines in a very light and handy package. And even though I own a few such weapons none are currently in a short action. But thinking about a Ruger in a Compact or Lightweight.

I can get the UltraLight in a 20" barrel in 30-06, but if I want the extremely short 16.5" barrel I have to go with a Compact which comes only in short actions.

I'll probably go with the Compact models in a short action round (probably 308) but not because of anything but the length of the overall gun. I won't worry one bit about the loss of velocity or the extra speed with which I can crank in a round that is 0.69" shorter (a short .308 compared to a long 30/06).

If I really want to lighten my load when hunting I should look to losing 20 lbs before I start skeletonizing my rifle.

I think each hunter/shooter should pick the round he really wants in a package that suits him and the round and not lose a minutes sleep over velocity or stroke length.

The reason short magnums exist is not for the advantage of hunters but for the advantage of gun manufacturers. They present a new opportunity for selling guns to people who already own a .30-06, a .30-30, a .25-06, a .338. When it comes down to shooting at a big game animal, you can get it done with any of these listed cartridges, you don't need the new cartridges. End of story. As far as weight, 6 ounces less weight means more recoil. I don't see shaving a few OZ off an advantage. If you are hunting at high altitude and hiking long distances, I would suggest a little more effort on the treadmill will do more for you than shaving 6 OZ off the weight of your rifle.

As another thought, I would ask those who favor the new cartridges, do you think they are going to stock your flavor of .270 WSM at the bar and gas station in Lone Wolf, Wyoming, when you realize you left your cartridges back at the hotel or back at home on the bouffet and you want to buy some ammo to hunt with? I bet they carry .30-06. And .270. If you are in Elk country, I bet they carry .30-06 and .338 Winchester Magnum.

But it is a free country. It is one of the blessings of our free market economy that if you want it, someone is going to be happy to sell it to you. We don't have to settle for the single offering of bread on the grocery shelf, the single offering of a private automobile, the single offering of toothpaste.

This is so true for the majority of us. There are a few people out there like ridge runner who practice at long range and become proficient at it. It's been my experience that most hunters don't practice enough to become skilled long range shooters, and buying a super duper extra ultra short short fat magnum won't make you magically hit a target beyond your capabilities. I know that location has a lot to do with it, and I live in the east where shots average shorter distances than "out west", but I'm 49 years old and I've been hunting since I was 11. Over those 38 years I have taken only one shot at a deer beyond 200 yards. I paced the distance at 300 paces and my only option was shooting from the sitting position without a backrest. Every time my heart took a beat my crosshairs left the deer. I did manage to break his neck, but I was aiming for his chest. I finally got smart and bought a Marlin 336SS in 30-30 last year. It's not a long range cartridge, but I admit to myself that I'm not a long range shooter. Now that my rifle no longer hurts like heck to shoot, I've become a more accurate shooter.

A lot of great comments - Thank you !

Hopefully, more to come.



I love this one especially....................................


"If I really want to lighten my load when hunting I should look to losing 20 lbs before I start skeletonizing my rifle."

"I think each hunter/shooter should pick the round he really wants in a package that suits him and the round and not lose a minutes sleep over velocity or stroke length."

Very true sir, We often forget that deer were hunted to near extinction with such rifles as the 30-30 and 30-06 or ....gasp..... black powder cartridges like the 30/40 Krag.

Good point. except the 30 / 40 Krag was a smokeless powder round.

Maybe so, I thought it was originally a blackpowder cartridge. I have little or no experience in these matters and revert to fellows who know more. Sorry for the error guys.

maybe there should be a law if you want to create/start loading a new factory cartridge you have to stop reloading one? Or if a company creates a new round, you get to have your rifle rechambered for free, or just a free rifle if you already have say a 7mm RM, you can exchange it for a free/new 7mmWSM.

I remember reading an article on which cartridges we could do without....

Can you imagine if we only had 20 cartridges and every place that sold ammo sold all 20? not sure that would be good or bad...?
Maybe I'll post a 20 rounds only question...

I see your logic but in my opinion limiting any factor of firearm production is a terrible thing.

Jeep,

Haven't been around a reloading bench much have ya? Not busting on you but all the wsm hype is so you go out and buy one. Thats why they do it.

Handload more rounds in a few months then most people shoot in 5 years...

But, I totally agree that the WSM, RUM, and all the other "super mags" are pretty much just hype. Not needed for the average hunter. I also know for a fact that the .270 WSM WILL outrun a .270 Win anyday of the week with ANY bullet...

But at what expense in weight ( overall rifle) and recoil? There is no free lunch. Yes its faster but not terribly flatter. Ok its action is shorter losing 6 ounces but how about the extra required barrel length and heavier contour? Not to mention added muzzle blast and recoil or feeding issues.

Im not saying wsm's are useless just overrated. Everybody now believes the .270 and 30-06 are archaic, antiquted rounds of yesteryear and the "new" magnums are infinitely better. Just aggravates the tar out of me. Whats wrong with the .270 win? On game is the .270 wsm really that much better? Does it do anything the 7mm rem mag doesnt?

RR you sir are the exception not the rule. The average gun buyer is the one I refer to. If shots over 500 yards were available to me I may be singing a different tune but O'Connor said it best in my opinion. " If the 7 mm remington magnum kills game any faster or deader than the .270 win or 7x57 then it is above my perception".

They thought that about the 30-06 when the 300 win mag came out. Magnum performance in the same length action. Before this if you wanted a magnum you had to have a magnum length action like the 300H&H. Now you have magnum performance from a short action. It's just history repeating itself.

I, for one, am ecstatic that they come out with new cartridges and rifles to shoot them in. If it weren't for people and companies "inventing" new cartridges we wouldn't have cartridges like the......
300 win mag
Weatherby wouldn't exist at all
No .25-06, .270, .280, .338-06, 35 Whelen
The .308 and all of its offspring would have never been invented.
On and on and on and on.

Hell, we'd all be chunking spears if people weren't constantly striving to "reinvent the wheel".

Im all for reinventing the wheel. Just saying lets give the predecessors some credit. It does keep things interesting though, to have new configurations of the same old things.

Didn't say I like them better...I hunt with a .270 Win, I like them so much I have 3 of them...:s2:

Very few .270 owners have just one. Great info RR, I always say the .270 win isnt a long range round but it definitely gets the job done out to 500 or so. Ive personally shot pigs out to 450ish ( stepped off, no rangefinder) with a 140 grain hornady interlock from their light mag offering at a proclaimed 3100 fps MV. Had no different effect than my buddy next to me with a 300 wsm and a 150 partition. Both dead as door nails.

I wish I knew where to find the popcorn smiley.....