bigcountry

I hunt near Racine, WV. You know thats a good idea, that never really come to me. Why not use my 12ga slug gun instead of my deer guns. Think I might try it this year. Its very short and all the hogs (russian mix) I have seen run like the devil at close range. Might be perfect for that. By the way, still never have downed one there.

Judson

As a custom gunsmith and rifle builder I will voice my opinion, you may hate me for it but since I deal with more rifles and calibers then most of you I think it is valid. First, these new short mags are 5o% sales hype and 50% high pressure, both sales and chamber wise. They do nothing that is not already done better. Short actions are stiffer but are you a good enough shot to notice a .010 difference in your groups at 100 yards? Most of these rifles chambered for these rounds are ultra light numbers and not condusive to small groups in the first place.
If a short mag is what you want then fine, you might have a colectors item in a few years, it is your choice. By the way any of you try to buy any of the other short mag ammo in the past few years, you know the 6.5 Rem mag? Walmart does not have it. When you are looking for a new rifle ask yourself why do I want it and what will it do that is not already done. If your answer is that it is the latest and " Greatest" then go ahead and buy. Do not get glittered by all the sales B.S.. These short mags catch their bigger brothers only by running extremely high pressures. High enough to be shuned by African P.H.s 65,000 psi is considered to be over max for the 7mm Rem mag, but working pressure for the short mags. If you load any of the standard mags to these pressures then the short mags compaire like a fat man in a 20K marithon. The short action,short length, = fast handling does not cut it either, big deal one half inch. Big energy for tight situation, well if you neck the short mags to .338, .358, or .375, hmmm, now I think you got something.


Well these are my random thoughts, you may not agree and I respect that. However, I have no desire to own a car that is almost a Corvette priced the same as a Corvette and sold as a Corvet, I want the real thing and all of it not a close second.



Your Friend
Jud

Zeak

I wouldn' t trade the 308 off,you may kick your self later. I have done some dumb trades and later regreted it,a man can' t have to many guns. Zeak

halcon

Good post Judson .

stubblejumper

Neweboarhunter-I have only shot a couple of hogs and those were escapees from a hunting preserve.The friend whose land I hunt on has killed in excess of a dozen with the 25-06.These are pure russian boars that weigh up to and in some cases were in excess of 300lbs.They escaped from a preserve that boarders my friends land and were shot whenever seen.The 25-06 did seem to do a good job when partitions were used.The 25-06 may not be the ideal hog rifle but I see it as beinga better hog rifle than the 270wsm will ever be as a varmint rifle.

neweboarhunter

stubblejumper,

You are right the .25-06 is a much better varmit rifle than the .270 WSM. You are also right the .25-06 will bring home the bacon. My point is if a person wants a hog rifle I just don' t see them picking the .25-06 over other cartridges. Now for deer, coyotes the .25-06 really brings it' s A game. The partition is truely a magical bullet though no matter the caliber.

neweboarhunter

Judson,

I agree with you the WSM and the SAUM are pretty much hype. I never thought about the chamber pressure or the short mags versus the " regular" mags, you opened a whole new can or worms. I just like the M70 Coyote for reasons stated above. If it was available in the " regular" mags I might choose one of them.

Anyway here is some of my thoughts: The short mags theoretically should have longer case life because of them not having a belt. They use a little less powder.
These reasons would be good for the reloader.

Raymond270

Judson since your reply was aimed at me maybe I should clarify a few things. The reason I bought my 270WSM was because I gave my 270Win to my nephew since he can not afford to buy a new rifle. He had been using a Winchester Model 88 in .308 I had but he really liked my 270. So I was in the market for another rifle. Like many magazines have already stated if you have a great rifle you are totally happy with there is no reason to go out and buy a WSM but if you are in the market for a new one you might want to give the WSM a try. And this way my nephew can not borrow my ammo

woodseye

So if I got this straight JUD,if a short mag is necked up to 33-37 caliber its OK and hype and pressure are not such a factor but in 27-30 caliber they are?Hmmmmm...............so it all depends on whether you like the caliber its available in?You kinda defeated your whole post on the cons of short mags with that last statement.So weight is not a factor with short actions but gunsmiths will drill out bolt knobs and skeletonize to save weight..........I dunno,1/4# seems noticeable to me for a weight savings.Just measured my savages and the long action is 3/4" longer and overall gun length with the same barrel is 1 1/8" again not some night or day difference but a noticeable difference in action length and cycling speed and a legitimate enough difference in rifle length.Now maybe the average fellow won' t notice the slight difference in action rigidity and its effect on accuracy that a short action can make but theres lots we pay for when accurizing a rifle that likewise results in a miniscule difference in real world accuracy but gunsmiths rarely discourage it as its often the cumulative effect of several different small things that can make one noticeable difference.No I don' t " hate" you for your opinion,far from it as I respect you highly,but saying african PH' s don' t like the high pressures of the short mags really isn' t a factor I think about much when I' m buying my next rifle.To state that they will soon become a collectors item is simply ignoring the fact that they are selling well and have for several years now and look to be continuing right along at a brisk pace into the future.Care to make a little wager on one of those beautiful custom guns you produce that there will still be 270-300WSM' s being sold in another 10 years?To say they don' t do something already being done is incorrect (unless you go to a long action gun) as there are NO 270,300, or 7mm cartridges of their equal in a factory produced short action calibers available today.You ask about finding obscure 6.5 Remington ammo at Wally World but fail to mention that they don' t have 257 roberts or 260 remington or even most of the heavy magnums above 30 caliber and yet stock 270,7mm,and 300WSM mags at their stores up here.If Wally World was the criteria for using a caliber most of your favorites would not make it.I respect your opinion but think you are only anti short mag when its not in one of YOUR favorite calibers of choice and has little to do with actual merits and short comings.I never look at it like they are trying to " catch" their big brothers in performance but instead that they are offering a short action " ALTERNATIVE" to their big brothers,too many posters try to make it a competition when thats not or never has been the purpose.So what do you think,want to make a wager on if they' ll still be kicking around in 10 years?Or maybe 15?Maybe we could make it a stock out of that fancy walnut blank I was telling you about..................... As far as lighter rifles not being conducive to accuracy,thats where a good gunsmith comes into play and they can easily be made to shoot very accurately with a weight savings as a bonus, they don' t have to weigh a ton and require a gun bearer to be accurate buts thats a fallacy that some rifle builders seem to put forth.My savage WSM will shoot an inch in out of the box form with just a trigger tweak so I imagine a fellow of your " caliber" (Pun [&:])could no doubt make it a real tight shooter (light as it is)[].Remember in short mags" the animal will NEVER know if it was a long or short action that did the deed" ....................or at what " pressure" [X(]Will try to get up and by today if possible.

woods

bigcountry

Ok, you superduper expert that looks down at us peons. If you load a 300WM to where you see pressure signs, and load a 300WSM until you see pressure signs, what does it freaking matter? Hype is something that the weak minded buy. where are your tests??? Your pressure test, velocity tests? Or are you just going off the hype of traditional gun writers that hates anything that is new??? Guys, its a gun, you pull the trigger, it fires, something dies.