target issue
 

Got a question for anyone that can help. I bought a gun 30/06 last fall for deer season, my first season. I was lucky enough to get one. I could have filled my tags if I did not miss 2 others.

Here is my problem, at the range I can place my shots right on top of each other at 50 yds. When I move the target to 100 yards I am all over the place. Is this a mental issue I have that I need to work through, or could I be doing something wrong?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can pass along.

RE: target issue
 

You could need a higher power scope. Other than that, the only thing I can think of is it' s mental. You should be able to take your rifle and make comparable shots at 50, 100, 200... as long as you have something quality to make your sight picture through. Just relax, breathe, and let the gun settle on the target. Sorry if I' m not more help.

RE: target issue
 

it' s possible you aren' t using a scope at all....and if that' s the case, putting a scope on the gun will be a great help. FL/GA Hunter is correct.....your groups at 100, and 200 yds shouldn' t be much different than at 50 yards...

RE: target issue
 

I have a 3-9x40 Buchnell scope and I have been shooting Remington 180 Core-Lokt shells.

RE: target issue
 

Fishhunt, are your bullets tearing neat 30 caliber holes at 100 yards? What I' m getting at are your bullets stabilized? If the holes look like anything other than neat round holes, your bullets aren' t being stablized properly. Your bullet may be fairly stable at 50 yards, but really starting to go to pieces at 100.

RE: target issue
 

Nope... unless the scope is loose?

Ah... that could be it. When you boresighted it, did you make sure that the scope was firmly (and I mean firmly) attached? If the rings are loose, then a wobble that may be unnoticeable at 50 yards could be more evident at longer ranges.

Otherwise, the only other thing I could say is check for a crack in the stock or something like that. If there' s nothing wrong with the gun, then, as they say in the technology world, it' s user error. You need to hit the range that much more often. 3-9x should be plenty of scope for 200 yards, much less 100.

RE: target issue
 

What kinds of ammo have you tried? How heavy is your trigger? What type of rifle are you shooting? How often do you practice? How big are your groups at 100 yards? These questions will give us more of a clue as to what may be happening.

RE: target issue
 

Thanks for the help. I will check to see if the scope is on tight. I guess I need to have a couple of different people shoot the gun and see if they are getting the same results I am. It is most likely me, I have only shot a .22 up until this past fall. Practice, practice, practice.....

Thanks again

RE: target issue
 

Frizzellr, I have only shot the 180 g core-lokt, I don' t know how heavy the trigger is. My gun is the Remington 710 30/06. I have read that a lot of people do not like this gun on these forums. I know I don' t practice near enough and that could be the main issue. I am not even putting together groups at 100 yds. I wanted to get some experienced advice to see if I needed to change anything.

Thanks again

RE: target issue
 

Well I wished you would have asked before you got that 710. The triggers are terrible on them. Could be part of your problem. Also, you could try different kinds of ammo. I would get away from the 180 grains. No use in dealing with the extra recoil. Try 150 grains and different brands. That is after you have someone else shoot it and see if it does the same thing. Keep in mind though that you can' t polish a turd.

RE: target issue
 

Whether or not people ' like' the gun, it should be capable of putting together groups at 100 yards. Like you said, you should let somebody else shoot a couple through it, probably with two or three different types of ammo. If somebody else can get your gun to, say even 4 inch groups at 100 yards, then it' s a matter of you working with your gun - practice and trying out different ammunitions.

If the other person you bring in has the same problems with a couple different types of ammo, then you have a problem with the gun.

The other thing you might try doing is just going to the range with that other person and seeing if you can group at 100 yards with one of their guns.

frizzellr' s question about the trigger pull is part of the practice thing - is the trigger so stiff or so light that you can' t hold a solid group? Since you haven' t said anything about it, I' d tend to think there wasn' t anything wrong with it.

Overall, I think you' ve gotten some good advice and things to look at... good luck!

RE: target issue
 

Are you shooting from the same rest at 50 as you at 100, are the targets at the same height? Sometimes if you place a stock on sandbags or worse, a hard surface, the stock will bounce all over the place with the recoil, throwing your shots off. If you think its a mental game, try shooting your .22 at 100, if you don' t have one, think about investing in one, it will pay for itself in cheap practice and its a very cheap way to refine your shooting from different positions such as standing. I usually fire off 3-400 rounds with the .22 at 100 yards before I even pick up a centerfire everytime I go to the range. Hope this helps.

RE: target issue
 

frizzellr,
" ...can' t polish a turd."
I love it. I will be using this phrase in many situations in the near and not so near future.
John

RE: target issue
 

8mm/06 , who said Beavis and Butthead wasn' t an educational program?:D

RE: target issue
 

Also forgot to mention... everyone has bad days at the range, do not give up on the rifle, the 710 will shoot.

Another bad shooting ogre that may be rearing its ugly head is flinching. You shoot a few rounds at 50 and they look alright so you start shooting at 100 and by then the recoil and noise is starting to get to you and you flinch. Things you can do to minimize this:

-Wear hearing protection- earplugs at minimum, a pair of muffs over the top even better. Flinching is caused more by sound than recoil.

-practice dry firing- if you can get used to the unnerving ping of the firing pin dropping, this will help immensely.

-Hvae someone else load your rifle at the range one round at a time and hand it to you to fire. Have the person not put a shell in the chamber at random. If you have a flinch, it will become very apparent when you try firing the rifle on an empty chamber.

RE: target issue
 

When you mounted your scope did you mount it straight? the front base and rear base have to be " square" . This problem does not show up untill you shoot at ranges of atleast 100-200yds. Also with any new gun after the first 20-40 rounds you should check the screws that keep the barreled action in the stock, they sometimes will shoot loose, again causing problems at longer ranges. some other thoughts:

What are you useing for a rest? a proper benchrest will improve your groups I guarantee it. You can buy a fairly nice one for around $50.00

When you shoot at the shorter ranges then move to the 100 yard range do you change the setting on your scope? Don' t take offense, I learned this the hard way, with the cheaper scopes (i.e. Bushnell and others) sometimes when you change the power setting you change the impact of the bullet.

What type of target are you useing I have found that the diamond type targets are excellent for checking benchrest accuraccy. They give you a consistent aimpoint, by leveling your crosshairs in the corner of the diamond.

Also the Remington 710 should shoot o.k., granted it won' t get invited to the prom.
You should expect a group no larger than 2" , which is fine for hunting accuraccy say to 300 yards.

Most .30 caliber rifles favor 165 grain bullets.

Buy 3 different boxes of ammo with the same bullet weight. Shot all three from as stable a rest as you can find. I try Federal first.

Also why working off the bench turn your scope to the highest setting and shoot your groups. 5 or 3 shot is o.k. Rember to let your barrel cool. When shooting from the bench you are testing your rifle/cartridge accuracy not your shooting abillity, that comes latter. Once you get the load that you will hunt with sighted in turn your scope down to the magnification that you expect to use while hunting. Shoot a few more off the bench and make any final adjustments. Then leave the bench and shoot from modified field positions, that is what you will use in the field.

RE: target issue
 

I had this problem with my 30-06 Sprg. I had a gunsmith install a new Weaver mounting system along with a new Leupold M8-4x33 Duplex, and it shot great for about 150 rounds. Then my groups at 100 yds. went from .75" to a patern instead of a group, but it still grouped at 25 yds. This happened from one trip to the range to the next. We figured out the cheap Weaver rings streached and the scope was moving in them, so I replaced them with a Leupold Quick Release System, and I never had a problem again. Check your mounting system!! Good luck

RE: target issue
 

sounds like you have the same problem i once had when i got into scopes. make sure the rings and mount are tight. also what size rings do you have? i find the lower to the barrel the better. also when you shoot at 50yds. are you sighted in at 50yds? that might also be a factor. you also might want to try another ammo brand and grain size. my 30-06sprg is quite fond of the federal sierra gameking' s 165gr. 1.080" .
i find if i sight mine in at 50yds then shoot at 100yds they are not even close that i had at 50yds. also you might want to look into leupold mounts and rings. never had a problem with them since i bought them on either of my scoped guns.
they worked great even when i took a nasty dump on some icy roads logging trail last year. gun held it' s zero after the impact of the fall. also when power are you sighting in your rifle? 3X or higher? i don' t know if it matters but i sight mine in at the lowest setting.

RE: target issue
 

How many groups did you shoot at 100 yards.
If your shooting good groups at 50 yards 1" that would be 2" groups at 100 yards.
If you are right on the zero at 50 yards your impact will be 1 1/2 inch higher at 100 yards.
Shoot 4 or 5 groups (let your rifle cool between groups) at 100 yards with a good solid rest (not off your coat over the hood of the pickup).
50 yard groups are ok to get you on target at 100 yards, but they aren' t much use for testing out your rifles accuracy.

If your rifle is shooting 1/2 inch groups of 3 shots at 50 yards it should be shooting 1" groups at 100. If you are shooting groups that good at 50 but much worse at 100 (at your scopes highest magnification) it is not the fault of your equipment, you need to work on your technique or your rest.
Good luck!

RE: target issue
 

See if there is an after market triggers for that gun (timney, etc.) , if their is, it' s worth the money. Second, get away from those shoulder kicking 180' s and go with 140' s or 150' s. Third, when you shoot, eliminate as much human error as possible, make sure you have a good rest and that your using your stock to rest the gun and not the barrel. The barrel shouldn' t be touching anything. Practice dry firing. If you can' t afford to shoot alot, dry firing is inexpensive and lets you practice your technique.
If you think your dodging the stock when you shoot, do some dry fire practice but after every dry fire, give the gun to a friend and without watching him, have them put a live round in it every once in a while. If your jerking because of recoil, it will happen on the dry fire if you don' t know if it' s loaded. Remember saftey here as always, and the gun is always loaded and should be treated as such.
Last, just practice all you can. I bought an economical reloader so I could shoot more and be a better shot. It' s worth the money if you can do it. Good luck to you.

RE: target issue
 

I' m firstly going to say that it' s probably your ammunition, if the gun is putting the bullets on top of eachother at 50yrds, I' m assuming you mean one snowman?, but you get terrible groups at 100yrds, look very closely at the holes at both ranges, and move out to 125yrds and back to 75yrds, if you can out to 150-175-200yrds, you' ll be able to see bullet tumble if it is, but you may not be able to notice it if you don' t test a couple different ranges, when it' s fully keyholed, I' m pretty sure you' ll notice it. Get some 150grainers, no reason to need 180' s, and certain gun makes (rifling rate) won' t stabilize them properly.

I won' t say it isn' t your flinching, and I won' t say that it isn' t just your rifle, or just your rifling rate, but I' ve had bad experiences with certain guns and 180gr bullets, and I' ve had many more bad experiences with Rem. Core-locts. I' d say first try switching ammunition to at least a lighter bullet, if not a different make, then do the flinch test that several have mentioned above, Man is it funny when someone flinches the dickens off a rifle when they dry-fire one, but at least you find out you have a problem, it' s hard to see a flinch under recoil sometimes.

RE: target issue
 

Thanks for all the good advice. I went out this weekend and bought a bench rest and some different brands of ammo in the 150 gr. By the end of my shooting session I was putting together 2" groupings. I ended up making some adjustments to my scope also.

Next question, should I be dead on bulls eye at 100 yds or do I want to be a little high. I hunt in the thick woods of missouri. A long shot for me will probably be no more that 150 yds.

Thanks again for all the good advice.

RE: target issue
 

Fishn,
Glad things worked out, sounds like you tried the easy fixes first and that is the best way to do it. These problems are seldom as complicated as people can make them sound.
100 yard sight in sounds right for you.
That will put you 1" or so high at 150 and back to 0 at 200 and and a couple inches low at 250. These are approximates, check your actual rise and drop at the range if you can.