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454 Casull, big enough to stop a grizzley?

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454 Casull, big enough to stop a grizzley?

Old 05-13-2017, 01:36 PM
  #31  
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I used to carry my 7 1/2" Ruger SBH .44 mag with me most of the time outside of work that I was in grizzly country. Most of the bears that I saw ran in the other direction as soon as they saw me.


The only one that didn't was one time two friends and I were hunting near West Yellowstone, MT. We were camped at the end of a forest service road, and we had two elk and a moose hanging in the stock rack in the back of my pickup.


One night, just before going to bed, I went outside to "water a bush" on the side of the road. When I got to the side of the road I was met by a Woof and the clicking of the teeth of a grizzly on top of the cut bank about 25 feet above me.


I had my .44 on my hip, so I drew it, and with a flashlight in my left hand, I fired one shot over the head of the bear. He didn't even blink, so I fired another shot into a pine tree next to him. Again, he just stood there clicking his teeth at me.


So I holstered my gun and I bent down and picked up a baseball size rock that I threw at and hit him. He then ran off into the darkness.


He was wearing a collar and ear tag, and we later found out that he had been a trouble bear near Cooke City where he had been trapped and then released in the area that we were hunting.


Last year, one of the guys that I used to work with was scouting for elk. He was carrying both his .44 revolver. He got attacked twice on one day by a grizzly.


Walking down a trail, he apparently got between a female grizzly and her cubs. He was able to get out his bear spray and spray her on the first attack. He then played dead and tried to protect his face when she attacked him. She then left him and followed her cubs into the forest.


Todd then was able to get up and continued down the trail to his pickup. Minutes later, a little farther down the trail, she attacked him again. This time he was out of bear spray and did not have enough time to get his gun out. She bit his arms, back, and head before she left him again.


Todd was then able to walk 3 miles down to his truck, make a video of himself, then drive himself to the hospital in Ennis where he underwent 8 hours of surgery.


Google "Todd Orr bear"
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Old 05-13-2017, 02:14 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by uncle matt
The issue with pepper spray - any pepper spray - is that you best not have to spray it into the wind. So that kinda gives you a 50/50 chance at it doing anything at all for you.

I vote for the 12 gauge and slugs.
+1

I believe all of that to be true.

+

I also know that the Alaskan Aleut kill bears with a .22lr.
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Old 05-14-2017, 01:36 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by bronko22000
Even the FBI states that at only 21' a person (ref:Tueller Drill), being attacked by another would have difficulty removing a holstered firearm and getting off a shot. And a bear is a heck of a lot faster than a human.
The FBI Tests/Tuller/21ft rule didn't prove the shooter is unable to draw and fire, it proved that even when struck, the death doesn't happen fast enough to prevent mortal injury from the blade-wielding assailant. In other words, outside of 21ft, there's one dead person, inside of 21ft, there are two.

But that's not really applicable for bear attack defense - as that study was considering known potential threats, effectively from a cold start. A charging bear isn't a cold start - most often it's moving at high speed before the shooter even knows it's there, and of course, it IS faster than a human.

I can say, the 21ft rule is ABSOLUTEY IRRELEVANT for the overwhelming majority of our population. I do a drill in my defensive handgun courses in which I pick out one of the students which everyone recognizes as a bit more skilled with a handgun, AND a student who is admittedly brand spanking new. I use two blue (non-functional) guns, and have them demonstrate a dynamic draw, side by side, on the clock. Despite a considerable gap in shooting skill, I have yet to see a significant gap in shot time - both of which usually end up more than 2 seconds. We hear folks talk about 1-1.5second times to first shot, but outside of competitors, I have never found that to be realistic, even for officers. And that's coming from a ready signal where these shooters KNOW there is a beep coming and the next action they take is a draw stroke. That's NOT the same as a surprise stimulus where the shooter has to react to what might be a squirrel breaking a small limb out of a tree, or might be an 800lb sow bearing down on them.

I have every confidence a .454c will stop a bear as fast as anything out there, but I can also say, despite having what I expect is a much greater experience and skill in shooting heavy revolvers than the average handgunner, I don't expect to draw and drop a bear in one shot.

What I HAVE always wondered, after spending so many years of my life as a bull rider and bull fighter, why give the bear a static target? I was somewhat confirmed in this thinking after watching a video of instructor zero and Doug mercaida, testing the 21ft rule. Zero could easily put shots on Doug if he took an evasive move first instead of drawing to shoot. How do you avoid being hit by a train? Get the F out of the way. If you need to kill the train after you avoid death, then take the time to do so. So that's how I train with my bear defense revolver and rifle... I move first, then ready to shoot.
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Old 05-24-2017, 08:40 PM
  #34  
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Whatever one chooses to carry you have to hit something like this but probably not in such a smooth open area......

http://mashable.com/2017/05/24/hunte.../#qqzYeVLhLOql
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Old 06-24-2017, 11:23 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by bronko22000
While I agree with just about everything fatheadbob said I do have one thing to say. He does say he would take the Ruger over the Taurus (6 shots vs. 5). I would say that if a bear does decide to come at you there are only two scenieros: 1 you saw him first and you have your handgun drawn. (and hopefully backing away). In this instance, if it does come, you may be able to get off 2 shots. Don't forget you have to recover from the heavy recoil. 2. You don't see the bear until its already coming and you'll be lucky to get off even one shot.


Agreed! This subject is oft-debated and there are no solid, 100%-right-everytime answers. As for me, based on my experience with hogs and my .454, I'd rather use pepper spray because a yard-wide cloud of irritating spray has a better chance of keeping my hide unscathed than relying on a precise, CNS hit on a rapidly approaching bear. (Studies have borne that out, although exceptions are many.)


Of course, if your pistol skills are at the Clint Eastwood/John Wayne/Jerry Miculek level, pack a hogleg.
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Old 06-25-2017, 06:58 AM
  #36  
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Personally if all I have is a pistol I'd want something with a reasonable follow up shot. It is bound to be a compromise between power and recoil. And what I was taught is two hits from a 9 MM dumps more energy into whatever you are shooting at and has more punch than one hit from a 44 magnum. Don't really know if it is fact or not, but the way I was taught, double tap.

Better yet is a long gun with a quick second shot. I feel comfortable with my slug gun, semi auto. Semi auto has less recoil, quicker second shot. If it isn't in my hands it is front slung, takes about the same time to get it into action as my pistol draw does. And I've picked off so many Jack Rabbits with it I'm likely to instinctively hit what I'm shooting at within reasonable distance. The pucker factor is going to be high, but muscle memory will likely see me through.

Searching for large wounded Hogs I use my slug gun with a bayonet. Ten inches of razor sharp knife may not stop one, but is likely to get it's attention. A slug torso hit will definitely get their attention.

I've never hunted Bear, but have had a 350+ size Hog come right at me. That hog covered, best estimate, a hundred feet in 2 seconds. I decided that night that a bolt action rifle wasn't my best option in a similar situation. Pistol was unlikely to hit at any distance and a second shot would be iffy. I'm a decent pistol shot, but rushing it, around 75 feet is my limit while retaining accuracy. Getting off a second shot with a large bore (magnum) pistol and theoretically that Bear or Hog can cover another 50-100 feet before you can fire again. A semi auto shotgun is a lot quicker follow up shot than a magnum pistol IMO.

Last edited by MudderChuck; 06-25-2017 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 06-26-2017, 01:53 AM
  #37  
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Will it kill a grizzly? Of course. But, will it kill it before it kills you should be the question.
That 12 gauge with GOOD slugs is your only hope. Many years ago an article was published in ALASKA MAGAZINE, the author (a registered guide) from Fairbanks and another guide from Kodiak were hunting on Kodiak. A bear came for them and got two 500 gr .458 slugs into him. It still managed to go from 50 feet to 10 feet before it expired. Will any hand gun kill a bear? Wrong question. Will it STOP the bear! Big difference!
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Old 06-26-2017, 05:59 PM
  #38  
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From what I gather about a grizzly charge, is you'll be lucky to get off 1 or 2 shots at said grizzly.

also a faster follow up shot might be a good thing, ie. 44mag > 454, 480, 500 etc...

I went with a 5 shot 44 mag taurus tracker, although I'm not sure the 41mag may have 6 shots vs. 5.

I other round I have thought about is the 10mm, but then you're talking about having the ability to take more shots.

I think maybe 1 of you has the 44mag and your buddy has the 10mm. ha.
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Old 07-22-2017, 03:15 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by bronko22000
While I agree with just about everything fatheadbob said I do have one thing to say. He does say he would take the Ruger over the Taurus (6 shots vs. 5). I would say that if a bear does decide to come at you there are only two scenieros: 1 you saw him first and you have your handgun drawn. (and hopefully backing away). In this instance, if it does come, you may be able to get off 2 shots. Don't forget you have to recover from the heavy recoil. 2. You don't see the bear until its already coming and you'll be lucky to get off even one shot.

Yes indeed.
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Old 07-22-2017, 10:30 AM
  #40  
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Most people fail to realize they are able to pursue force-on-force training at low cost. A guy can either put in for simunitions, or a lot more cheaply, use an air soft pistol/revolver.

So, grab a buddy, start at rest, and have him rush you from 20-30yrds. Best if done in thick enough cover where he can be concealed. Another option, start blindfolded, remove the fold at the beep - and they get to run in on the same cue.

You'll be amazed how difficult it is to hit a rushing target, and then equally amazed how quickly you can learn to engage a rushing target effectively. Recoil management then becomes the priority in training.

I'll go look around a bit, but I recently saw a video of Max Prasac shooting a 454c, wanna say it was even a single action, for 5 shots on target in 3 seconds. Their test was in response to a claim by another gun writer who had claimed the ability to do so. Multiple testers succeeded or nearly succeeded.

That's not to say any joe blow who hasn't put more than 5 rounds at a time through his super magnum revolver can replicate these results, but fast, on target shooting of a super magnum revolver is within reach of a trained and practiced handgunner.

I live by this general expectation: If I can do it, almost anyone can do it, and a lot of folks can do it a lot better.
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