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thenuge15 06-14-2003 08:22 PM

Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
I am getting my first deer rifle for christmas this year. I have hunted with my shotgun for a couple years and now i want a rifle. I will be using it for whitetails in michigan. Where i hunt i will probably be shooting less than 100 yds. I have shot 3 deer and they were all less than 50 yards. However i also need this gun to perform well when i go out to Montana next year for mulies and antelope. At first I wanted a .243 and im still thinking about it, I also am looking at the 7mm-08, and the .270. I probably going to get a savage rifle and put like a vari-x II on it. Can someone please tell me the pros and cons of theses rifles, and which one would suffice for shots from 20 yds to 300yds. I am also willing to look at other calibers if you have a better idea. Thanks for your help-Sam

broey1 06-14-2003 08:36 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
You can' t go wrong with either the 7mm-08 or the 270. I' d pick either of these two over the 243 simply because they give you some more options down the road. I don' t think you' ll notice much of a performance difference in either at your ranges as well. I like the 7mm-08 simply because it is a short action, but that is simply personal preferance. You won' t be sorry with either. In fact, all from the 6mms to the 8mms will not be all that different on deer within 200 yards. Find something you can shoot & they' ll all kill deer effectively.

Pro-Line 06-14-2003 08:56 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
If you' re going to stick " solely" with whitetails, I' d opt for the 270..........and even possibly a 25-06. Nothin wrong with a .243 for deer, either (Bashin begin LOL)



thenuge15 06-14-2003 09:47 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
How much can i get a savage rifle for? If possible i would like to keep this under 500 bucks.

frizzellr 06-14-2003 09:56 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
You can almost get 2 used Savages for $500 if you shop around. Last one I picked up was $245 but now I am seeing them in the $275-300 range. I don' t really pay attention to new.

FL/GA Hunter 06-14-2003 10:01 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
Too easy a question - as long as you' re a normal sized adult, you' ll have no problem handling a .270, and it' s probably the second-most-popular caliber in the world, after the .30-06. The .243 is a fine gun, but for bigger whitetails and mulies, I' d prefer a little more umph. The only problem with the 7mm-08 is that you' ll be paying more and travelling further to find ammo for it. Get a .270, and when you' re buying $12 boxes of ammo from any Wal-Mart in America, you' ll thank me.

frizzellr 06-14-2003 10:10 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
FL/GA Hunter, there aren' t many Wal Mart stores that wouldn' t have 7mm-08 Rem ammo either. It isn' t any more expensive than 270 Win ammo. The 7mm-08 is finally coming into its own popularity wise and rightly so. It is an excellent cartridge.

FL/GA Hunter 06-14-2003 10:32 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
Fair enough about the 7-08 being in Wal-Mart, but (and of course this is a small matter) if I were in a hunting camp in the middle of nowhere, and my ammo fell to the bottom of a lake, it' d be more likely I could scrounge up a .270 shell somewhere.

Also, my brother has to buy 7-08 ammo, I know for a fact it' s more expensive than .270 in this part of the country.

............

Just went to Bass Pro Shops online, and made sure I wasn' t spouting a bunch of garbage. For comparison purposes, I couldn' t find a Federal cartridge for 7mm-08, in comparison with every flavor being offered in .270. Also, for the same Remington Core-Lokt bullet, the 7mm-08 cost $2 more than the .270.

Now, of course, you should be buying a rifle because it fits you and your needs. However, all other things being equal, .270 ammo is much more available and cheaper. The 7mm-08 is growing in popularity very rapidly, but it' s still not in .270 territory.

7mm08 06-14-2003 10:41 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
What do you think I would choose?:D

I love my 7mm-08. I' ve had it for 6 years, and it' s killed plenty of deer with no problem. My Dad offered to trade me for his 30-06 just because he really likes how short, and compact this gun is. It' s a Remington Model 7 Youth if I recall correctly. I' ve had it for 6-7 years - ever since I turned 11.

All of the Wal-Marts I have been to carry ammo for it, but I realize some may not. Sports stores like Academy, Oshman' s, etc. also carry ammo, and so do most of the gun/hunting stores around here. I order my bullets from a loader in South Carolina, and they' re quite expensive - damn worth it, though!

FL/GA Hunter 06-14-2003 10:52 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
Hehe... 7mm08, you sure you aren' t my brother in disguise? He' s had is 7-08 since he was 12 (7 whole years ago), and it' s universally accepted as the best-shooting gun in my family. Now, that' s not saying he' s the best shooter in the family. ;)

I honestly can' t say anything bad about that gun. It' s short, sweet, crisp, and beautiful. It' ll shoot with any caliber on earth. When posed with a question like this, though, you have to know all the information - that' s why I brought up the availability/cost question. I love my .270, and I know it' ll shoot with anything you bring to camp. On top of that, the only gun you' re more likely to see in camp is the ' 06.... there' s something to be said for picking the popular gun.

Bottom line, 7mm-08, .270, Nuge, you won' t be disappointed. Congrats on your new gun, and put some serious range time in. You' ll love it. [8D]

neweboarhunter 06-14-2003 11:14 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
Your choice of Savage is fine, they shoot very well, some don' t like the looks of them. Also the Leupold is a very nice quality scope. You asked about the .270 or 7mm-08 they are basically ballistic twins. The good thing about both cartridges is they are easy to obtain accuracy with. Also if you reload there is plenty of bullets from several manufacturers. The recoil factor is about even, .270 slightly more.
Factory ammo for both rounds is common at most gun shops. I can' t think of anything bad about a .270 win. The only thing I can think of about the 7mm-08 is you need to reload to get the full potenial of the cartridge not that this would matter for most hunting for small big game. This may not be true anymore, If am wrong set me straight. I would choose the savage model I wanted then see if these cartridges are available. When it comes down to it most hunters, I believe make their decisons on cartridges in this class by if they want a short or long action.

seattlesetters 06-14-2003 11:58 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
The .270 has more range than the 7mm-08, but both are about as good as it gets for the game you intend. Either will serve you well.

seattlesetters 06-15-2003 12:07 AM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
And don' t forget the .260 Rem and the 6.5x55 Swede!

FL/GA Hunter 06-15-2003 12:13 AM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
Oh, you just had to go and cloud the topic with more choices! ;) :D

seattlesetters 06-15-2003 12:18 AM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
Sorry. I just think those two are the very best whitetail rounds going when you factor recoil vs. performance into the equation.

Vapodog 06-15-2003 01:05 AM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
My pick is a .260 Remington in a Model 70

PABuck_HNTR 06-15-2003 05:03 AM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 

FL/GA Hunter, there aren' t many Wal Mart stores that wouldn' t have 7mm-08 Rem ammo either. It isn' t any more expensive than 270 Win ammo. The 7mm-08 is finally coming into its own popularity wise and rightly so. It is an excellent cartridge.
I' m sorry but I have to disagree with this a bit. I regularly purchase .270 Rem Core Lokts at Walmart 130 grain for 9.97 a box. This is in season of course from around late October through early January. I have purchased 7MM-08 at the same Walmarts, during the same time periods for 14.97 a box. This is one of the main reasons I handload for the 7mm08 and use factory ammo in the 270.


Either rifle will be well suited for whitetails.

Quilly 06-15-2003 05:25 AM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
u might want to look into the 25-06rem.

frizzellr 06-15-2003 06:24 AM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 

The .270 has more range than the 7mm-08,
I am going to have to respectfully disagree. Try running the numbers one more time. There ain' t a dimes worth of difference and what difference there is favors the 7mm-08.


u might want to look into the 25-06rem.
Why? The 270 Win will do everything the 25-06 will and more. Besides the 25-06 is a step down from both the 7mm-08 and the 270. Since the topic of availability was brought up, 25-06 ammo isn' t as popular as either.

fight4yourguns
Disagree all you want. I walked into Wal Mart last season and bought a box of 270 and 7mm-08 ammo and there wasn' t a dollar' s worth of difference in price.

woodseye 06-15-2003 07:10 AM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
You can get a stainless Savage weather warrior for $475 new and a blued version for right around $425.Used they come in at about $275.The 7mm-08 will work well and will be about as easy to find ammo for as the 270 if you don' t wander around on lakes out in the wilderness and drop your ammo in.Wally World up here is $10.87 a box on 270 and $12.97 on 7mm-08 no big difference.Ballistically they are a wash with an ever so slight edge to the 7mm-08.The short action 7mm-08 will come in a 1/4# lighter gun thats 1 1/2" shorter in length with the same barrel length.Being a short action man I would opt for the 7mm-08 because of the faster action cycle time,shorter/lighter weight,and bonus of a little more rigid action and the fact that I' m a short action fan ;).The Savage guns are good accurate,reasonably priced guns that will do the job for a lot less jingle and save you some money to get a decent scope for it.7mm-08 if you go short action and 270 if you go long.Have fun deciding!

cheers woods

LARRY338 06-15-2003 07:22 AM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
You have a fun delima on your hands right now and I' m sure you will get a lot of enjoyment out of your new rifle no matter what chambering you choose, I would offer this advice though. I know its boring as heck and not new or glamorous at all, but the 3006 is still the most versatile cartridge thats commonly available in factory offerings. If you ever plan on getting into reloading you will be able to come up with alot more different types of loads easier than with any other cartridge. Ammunition is cheap and easy to find too. Have fun deciding on your new gun.

sam 444 06-15-2003 07:30 AM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
Here' s another vote for the 25-06

MR300WM 06-15-2003 07:47 AM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
I would take a trip to Wally World and have a look at the Winchester package gun that they have there. I got my son one in 2 years ago. It is a 270 with the plastic stock and a Simmons 8-point scope on it. I brought it home adjusted 99% of the free travel out of the trigger and lighted it just a little. I loaded a few differant loads and we took it to the range. Had it sighted in in just a few shots picked the best load. He took his first Whitetail with it this year with a shot of about 175yds. Money well spent in my Opinion. This rifle will last him a lifetime if he so chooses. The cost THEN including tax was just under $400. Good Luck and enjoy.

adkfreeridex 06-15-2003 12:27 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
.30-06. just because there are so many diffent choices of loads that will cover every aspect of N. American game, from varmits to Moose

NE Hunter 06-15-2003 02:02 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
Savage makes a fine gun, I doubt you' ll be disappointed with it. All the chamberings you stated will work fine. If I was to pick one right now it' ll be the 7mm-08 only because I have the other two.

frizzellr 06-15-2003 02:13 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 

.30-06. just because there are so many diffent choices of loads that will cover every aspect of N. American game, from varmits to Moose
So will a whole host of others including the 7mm-08 Rem and 270 Win. What fun is it to use one rifle for everything anyways? Since thenuge15 is talking deer rifles, he has listed probably the two best deer cartridges available with the exclusion of the 260 Rem/ 6.5 X 55mm. No need for anything more. I was at the range today shooting my 270. There was a guy beside me shooting a 30-06. The recoil of the 06 got to the guy about half way though a box of ammo and his groups went to pot. The 30-06 is not what most would consider light recoiling. Especially for a first deer rifle. Beats the tar out of a 30-30 Win though.

Ruger-Redhawk 06-15-2003 02:52 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
Do it the easy way. Buy one of each caliber LOL. The 7mm 08 and .270 Win are both great deer cartridges.I' ve used a 270 for quite awhile now.Last year I used a Ruger M77 in 7mm Rem Mag and it didn' t do any better then the 270 has in years past. This year I' m going to be using a Browning BAR" Stalker" in.270.If I had to choose one cartridge strickly for deer it would be a .270.Or possibly the the trusty Ol' e 30-06.
Ruger Redhawk

woodseye 06-15-2003 06:12 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 

Do it the easy way. Buy one of each caliber LOL.
I like that kind of reasoning!:DThat would solve a lot of these which gun should I buy dilemas and giveyou a lot more toys to play with,and you can never have too many toys ;)Well said Ruger.

woods

thenuge15 06-15-2003 09:03 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
Thanks for all of your help. I think i am probably going to go with the 7mm-08. Also i was wondering if there is any good new guns out there for under 350. Can i get a new savage for this price? Because i want to spend under 5 or 6 hundred including the glass, and i really want it to be a new gun. Thanks-Sam

CalNewbie 06-16-2003 05:16 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
Good choice on the 7mm-08, though the .270 would have been just as good.

For your price target of $350, take a look at the Savage lineup. Wal-Mart usually has a few Savages that come with an inexpensive scope about that price range. The scope won' t be up to the Vari-X II standard, but you can always swap it out. Who knows, maybe it' ll be good enough to get you through a few seasons.

For a little bit more, take a look at the Tikka line. A few weeks ago my will-power failed me and I couldn' t pass up an opportunity on a Tikka Whitetail Hunter in 7mm-08 for $465. Sighting it in over the weekend I had a couple of " cloverleaf" groupings (from the benchrest of course, I' m not that good!). All that right out of the box, no trigger work, bedding, etc. I think its a good gun, better perhaps than Remington and/or Winchester, for several hundred less. Worth a look anyway.

One closing thought - if you find a rifle that you like, for the right price, but its a .270, take it anyway. The difference between those two is not all that great. Certainly not worth passing up a good deal for.

NE Hunter 06-16-2003 07:42 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 

One closing thought - if you find a rifle that you like, for the right price, but its a .270, take it anyway. The difference between those two is not all that great. Certainly not worth passing up a good deal for.
Probably the best advice I' ve seen in this debate.

neweboarhunter 06-17-2003 12:44 AM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
Ah yes the glorious .30/06 a jack of all trades and master of none;)

thenuge15 06-17-2003 10:41 AM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
I want just the gun for 350 then i will spend the additional money on the leupold.

frizzellr 06-17-2003 11:04 AM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
Go look around. You should be able to find a Savage for $350 or less. If you aren' t opposed to used you should be able to find an even better deal.

ELKampMaster 06-17-2003 11:12 AM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
Way back in the beginning.....

However i also need this gun to perform well when i go out to Montana next year for mulies and antelope.
7mmRemMag

You won' t out grow it.

Ammo is everywhere.

If you like 270' s or 7mm-08' s and such, then just reload it with reduced loads and you' re all set.

When you go for the " big time" in Montana' s " Big Sky" Country for antelope or you decide to get aggressive and go for elk, caribou, or moose then load it back " up" and you are all set.

You can always go bigger in cartridge and load down.
You can' t go smaller in cartridge and then try to load up, well you can try but it just don' t work too well.

Never Go Undergunned,
EKM

Deleted User 06-17-2003 11:14 AM

[Deleted]
 
[Deleted by Admins]

GTBuzz 06-17-2003 01:00 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
If I were you this is what I would do:

Go to a couple of gun shows and find yourself a used Savage. They don' t hold their value real well. This is an advantage if you are willing to look at a used one. You should be able to get a good used 111 model for about $250 or a 116 model for around $325. You could then take the remaining money and put it towards either the Leupold scope you want or a Bushnell Elite 3200. I don' t want to ruffle any Leupold fans, but the Elite 3200 is a lot more scope for the money ($180).

Most of the used Savage rifles you will find will be long action rifles in either .270 or .30-06. The older ones will have a plastic buttpad and are not very comfortable to shoot (heavy felt recoil).

Both the 7mm/08 and .270 Winchester are great cartridges. A handloader can get more performance out of the .270 as the 7mm/08 has considerably less case capacity. 2900 to 3000 fps is attainable in the .270 Winchester with 150g Ballistic Tips. The .270 is more cartridge, but the differences don' t amount to a whole lot in the field.

frizzellr 06-17-2003 01:15 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 

A handloader can get more performance out of the .270 as the 7mm/08 has considerably less case capacity. 2900 to 3000 fps is attainable in the .270 Winchester with 150g Ballistic Tips. The .270 is more cartridge, but the differences don' t amount to a whole lot in the field.
I beg to differ. Even handloaded the 7mm-08 Rem has the edge on the 270 Win. It is a small edge, but an edge just the same. I shoot both cartridges and reload for both. I actually prefer the 7mm-08.

GTBuzz 06-17-2003 02:07 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
Ok, I will play the game - how on earth does a 7mm/08 have an edge over a much larger cartridge?

IMR book:
7mm/08 - 139g - top velocity 2835 fps
7mm/08 - 162g - top velocity 2625 fps

.270 Winchester - 130g - top velocity 3140 fps
.270 Winchester - 150g - top velocity 2985 fps

Alliant Powder
7mm/08 - 139g - top velocity 2850 fps
7mm/08 - 150g - top velocity 2760 fps

.270 Winchester - 130g - 3160 fps
.270 Winchester - 150g - 3010 fps.

I' m sure there are plenty of other data sources out there to look at, but those are the powders I use the most. I looked at several other books and the results were more or less the same as what I have posted. The .270 Winchester absolutely rocks with IMR 7828 and Alliant RL22. I have heard H1000 works very well for it too, but I have not tried it. Those powders won' t ever show up in factory loaded .270 ammo because they would be pretty rough on gas system of the Remington 7400 rifles chambered in .270 Win.

The .270 has a case capacity of 67.4g of water while the 7mm/08 has 52.23g. At the same pressure, it just is not possible for the 7mm/08 to make up for 15.17g of difference in case capacity. I am not distrespecting the 7mm/08 at all, it' s a great cartridge - but you just are not going to make up for 29% less case capacity without greatly increasing pressure.

Contrary to some opinion, there isn' t any real ballistic coefficent difference between the two either

Hornady 139g 7mm - 0.453
Hornady 140g .277 - 0.486

Nosler BT 150g 7mm - 0.491
Nosler BT 150g .277 - 0.493

Sierra SBT 140g 7mm - .488
Sierra SBT 140g .270 - .479

Sierra SBT 150g 7mm - .504
Sierra SBT 150g .277 - .515

Now if you just like the 7mm/08 better, that' s cool. There are many nice short action rifles that come in 7mm.08 that handle like a dream. However, I have tried but just cannot come up with a ballistic advantage the 7mm/08 would have over a similarly loaded .270 Win.

dodger02 06-17-2003 02:53 PM

RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
 
Take your time and have fun choosing your rifle. There' s so much information out there. This is a great time.

I bought my first rifle this past spring. I came here for advice, and got responses ranging from a .25-06 to a .30-06 and everything in between.

I, too, had narrowed my choices down to a 7mm08 and a .270 (along with a .308). I finally decided on a .270. If I had it to do all over again, I' d stick with the .270, yet I might have chosen the 7mm08 or .260 in something like a Remington 700, but not likely. There' ll be time for that, later.

I, too, wanted to spend around $500, yet soon found out that to do things right, I' d need to spend a bit more, especially on the glass. I opted for a Browning Synthetic Stalker with a VXII 3-9X40. All total, I spent $700-$800.

I love my setup. I' m sure that you' ll love your' s.


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