Gettin my first deer rifle.
06-16-2003, 07:42 PM
#31
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bar Harbor ME USA
Posts: 443
RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
One closing thought - if you find a rifle that you like, for the right price, but its a .270, take it anyway. The difference between those two is not all that great. Certainly not worth passing up a good deal for.
06-17-2003, 11:04 AM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bossier City LA United States
Posts: 2,425
RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
Go look around. You should be able to find a Savage for $350 or less. If you aren' t opposed to used you should be able to find an even better deal.
06-17-2003, 11:12 AM
#35
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
Way back in the beginning.....
7mmRemMag
You won' t out grow it.
Ammo is everywhere.
If you like 270' s or 7mm-08' s and such, then just reload it with reduced loads and you' re all set.
When you go for the " big time" in Montana' s " Big Sky" Country for antelope or you decide to get aggressive and go for elk, caribou, or moose then load it back " up" and you are all set.
You can always go bigger in cartridge and load down.
You can' t go smaller in cartridge and then try to load up, well you can try but it just don' t work too well.
Never Go Undergunned,
EKM
However i also need this gun to perform well when i go out to Montana next year for mulies and antelope.
You won' t out grow it.
Ammo is everywhere.
If you like 270' s or 7mm-08' s and such, then just reload it with reduced loads and you' re all set.
When you go for the " big time" in Montana' s " Big Sky" Country for antelope or you decide to get aggressive and go for elk, caribou, or moose then load it back " up" and you are all set.
You can always go bigger in cartridge and load down.
You can' t go smaller in cartridge and then try to load up, well you can try but it just don' t work too well.
Never Go Undergunned,
EKM
06-17-2003, 01:00 PM
#37
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NW Georgia, USA
Posts: 114
RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
If I were you this is what I would do:
Go to a couple of gun shows and find yourself a used Savage. They don' t hold their value real well. This is an advantage if you are willing to look at a used one. You should be able to get a good used 111 model for about $250 or a 116 model for around $325. You could then take the remaining money and put it towards either the Leupold scope you want or a Bushnell Elite 3200. I don' t want to ruffle any Leupold fans, but the Elite 3200 is a lot more scope for the money ($180).
Most of the used Savage rifles you will find will be long action rifles in either .270 or .30-06. The older ones will have a plastic buttpad and are not very comfortable to shoot (heavy felt recoil).
Both the 7mm/08 and .270 Winchester are great cartridges. A handloader can get more performance out of the .270 as the 7mm/08 has considerably less case capacity. 2900 to 3000 fps is attainable in the .270 Winchester with 150g Ballistic Tips. The .270 is more cartridge, but the differences don' t amount to a whole lot in the field.
Go to a couple of gun shows and find yourself a used Savage. They don' t hold their value real well. This is an advantage if you are willing to look at a used one. You should be able to get a good used 111 model for about $250 or a 116 model for around $325. You could then take the remaining money and put it towards either the Leupold scope you want or a Bushnell Elite 3200. I don' t want to ruffle any Leupold fans, but the Elite 3200 is a lot more scope for the money ($180).
Most of the used Savage rifles you will find will be long action rifles in either .270 or .30-06. The older ones will have a plastic buttpad and are not very comfortable to shoot (heavy felt recoil).
Both the 7mm/08 and .270 Winchester are great cartridges. A handloader can get more performance out of the .270 as the 7mm/08 has considerably less case capacity. 2900 to 3000 fps is attainable in the .270 Winchester with 150g Ballistic Tips. The .270 is more cartridge, but the differences don' t amount to a whole lot in the field.
06-17-2003, 01:15 PM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bossier City LA United States
Posts: 2,425
RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
A handloader can get more performance out of the .270 as the 7mm/08 has considerably less case capacity. 2900 to 3000 fps is attainable in the .270 Winchester with 150g Ballistic Tips. The .270 is more cartridge, but the differences don' t amount to a whole lot in the field.
06-17-2003, 02:07 PM
#39
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NW Georgia, USA
Posts: 114
RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
Ok, I will play the game - how on earth does a 7mm/08 have an edge over a much larger cartridge?
IMR book:
7mm/08 - 139g - top velocity 2835 fps
7mm/08 - 162g - top velocity 2625 fps
.270 Winchester - 130g - top velocity 3140 fps
.270 Winchester - 150g - top velocity 2985 fps
Alliant Powder
7mm/08 - 139g - top velocity 2850 fps
7mm/08 - 150g - top velocity 2760 fps
.270 Winchester - 130g - 3160 fps
.270 Winchester - 150g - 3010 fps.
I' m sure there are plenty of other data sources out there to look at, but those are the powders I use the most. I looked at several other books and the results were more or less the same as what I have posted. The .270 Winchester absolutely rocks with IMR 7828 and Alliant RL22. I have heard H1000 works very well for it too, but I have not tried it. Those powders won' t ever show up in factory loaded .270 ammo because they would be pretty rough on gas system of the Remington 7400 rifles chambered in .270 Win.
The .270 has a case capacity of 67.4g of water while the 7mm/08 has 52.23g. At the same pressure, it just is not possible for the 7mm/08 to make up for 15.17g of difference in case capacity. I am not distrespecting the 7mm/08 at all, it' s a great cartridge - but you just are not going to make up for 29% less case capacity without greatly increasing pressure.
Contrary to some opinion, there isn' t any real ballistic coefficent difference between the two either
Hornady 139g 7mm - 0.453
Hornady 140g .277 - 0.486
Nosler BT 150g 7mm - 0.491
Nosler BT 150g .277 - 0.493
Sierra SBT 140g 7mm - .488
Sierra SBT 140g .270 - .479
Sierra SBT 150g 7mm - .504
Sierra SBT 150g .277 - .515
Now if you just like the 7mm/08 better, that' s cool. There are many nice short action rifles that come in 7mm.08 that handle like a dream. However, I have tried but just cannot come up with a ballistic advantage the 7mm/08 would have over a similarly loaded .270 Win.
IMR book:
7mm/08 - 139g - top velocity 2835 fps
7mm/08 - 162g - top velocity 2625 fps
.270 Winchester - 130g - top velocity 3140 fps
.270 Winchester - 150g - top velocity 2985 fps
Alliant Powder
7mm/08 - 139g - top velocity 2850 fps
7mm/08 - 150g - top velocity 2760 fps
.270 Winchester - 130g - 3160 fps
.270 Winchester - 150g - 3010 fps.
I' m sure there are plenty of other data sources out there to look at, but those are the powders I use the most. I looked at several other books and the results were more or less the same as what I have posted. The .270 Winchester absolutely rocks with IMR 7828 and Alliant RL22. I have heard H1000 works very well for it too, but I have not tried it. Those powders won' t ever show up in factory loaded .270 ammo because they would be pretty rough on gas system of the Remington 7400 rifles chambered in .270 Win.
The .270 has a case capacity of 67.4g of water while the 7mm/08 has 52.23g. At the same pressure, it just is not possible for the 7mm/08 to make up for 15.17g of difference in case capacity. I am not distrespecting the 7mm/08 at all, it' s a great cartridge - but you just are not going to make up for 29% less case capacity without greatly increasing pressure.
Contrary to some opinion, there isn' t any real ballistic coefficent difference between the two either
Hornady 139g 7mm - 0.453
Hornady 140g .277 - 0.486
Nosler BT 150g 7mm - 0.491
Nosler BT 150g .277 - 0.493
Sierra SBT 140g 7mm - .488
Sierra SBT 140g .270 - .479
Sierra SBT 150g 7mm - .504
Sierra SBT 150g .277 - .515
Now if you just like the 7mm/08 better, that' s cool. There are many nice short action rifles that come in 7mm.08 that handle like a dream. However, I have tried but just cannot come up with a ballistic advantage the 7mm/08 would have over a similarly loaded .270 Win.
06-17-2003, 02:53 PM
#40
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: College Station TX USA
Posts: 56
RE: Gettin my first deer rifle.
Take your time and have fun choosing your rifle. There' s so much information out there. This is a great time.
I bought my first rifle this past spring. I came here for advice, and got responses ranging from a .25-06 to a .30-06 and everything in between.
I, too, had narrowed my choices down to a 7mm08 and a .270 (along with a .308). I finally decided on a .270. If I had it to do all over again, I' d stick with the .270, yet I might have chosen the 7mm08 or .260 in something like a Remington 700, but not likely. There' ll be time for that, later.
I, too, wanted to spend around $500, yet soon found out that to do things right, I' d need to spend a bit more, especially on the glass. I opted for a Browning Synthetic Stalker with a VXII 3-9X40. All total, I spent $700-$800.
I love my setup. I' m sure that you' ll love your' s.
I bought my first rifle this past spring. I came here for advice, and got responses ranging from a .25-06 to a .30-06 and everything in between.
I, too, had narrowed my choices down to a 7mm08 and a .270 (along with a .308). I finally decided on a .270. If I had it to do all over again, I' d stick with the .270, yet I might have chosen the 7mm08 or .260 in something like a Remington 700, but not likely. There' ll be time for that, later.
I, too, wanted to spend around $500, yet soon found out that to do things right, I' d need to spend a bit more, especially on the glass. I opted for a Browning Synthetic Stalker with a VXII 3-9X40. All total, I spent $700-$800.
I love my setup. I' m sure that you' ll love your' s.