new to this - can you point me in the right direction?
01-07-2010, 10:01 AM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Berkeley Springs, WV
Posts: 1,293
IF you can find someone who already has a deer hunting rig set up and shoot it, it would be a huge help.
You could post what you shot and have a good base line for comparisions.
Truth is for a deer rifle for 300 yards or less you really cant go wrong with a .243 up to whatever you feel comfortable shooting. Most guns in your price range will be more then enough for what you are trying to accomplish.
You could post what you shot and have a good base line for comparisions.
Truth is for a deer rifle for 300 yards or less you really cant go wrong with a .243 up to whatever you feel comfortable shooting. Most guns in your price range will be more then enough for what you are trying to accomplish.
01-07-2010, 10:22 AM
#12
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 14
Alright, i am overwhelmed!!! haha.
So i found this "http://www.chuckhawks.com/choosing_hunting_rifle.htm"
the first bit made a lot of sence to me, before you buy the gun, you have to decided what type of amunition you want to shoot. but their are so many different types and sizes and stuff, my un-educated self cant comprehend all the numbers and stuff, i really need to go to a store and ask questions, or find an awesome book that will teach me about calibers and other important things.
So as i understand this is what i will eventually do. first, i will select what type of ammunition i would like to use for my application, apparently a 30-06 (i think) is a good round for hunting deer but nothing larger. so, once i have chosen what i will shoot i can then find a gun that fires this type of ammunition and then make my decision for a rifle.
So i guess the first thing i need to learn about is the ammunition it self.
Im a pretty big guy, almost 6 foot 210 Lbs! i think i can handle some kick.
-Josh
So i found this "http://www.chuckhawks.com/choosing_hunting_rifle.htm"
the first bit made a lot of sence to me, before you buy the gun, you have to decided what type of amunition you want to shoot. but their are so many different types and sizes and stuff, my un-educated self cant comprehend all the numbers and stuff, i really need to go to a store and ask questions, or find an awesome book that will teach me about calibers and other important things.
So as i understand this is what i will eventually do. first, i will select what type of ammunition i would like to use for my application, apparently a 30-06 (i think) is a good round for hunting deer but nothing larger. so, once i have chosen what i will shoot i can then find a gun that fires this type of ammunition and then make my decision for a rifle.
So i guess the first thing i need to learn about is the ammunition it self.
Im a pretty big guy, almost 6 foot 210 Lbs! i think i can handle some kick.
-Josh
01-07-2010, 01:09 PM
#13
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Southampton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 974
Once you have your PAL and a hunting license You should buy a .22 rimfire and learn the art of shooting, next get a 20 ga shotgun and do a couple of years of small game hunting. Then you will be ready to think about deer hunting. Don't rush into deer hunting.
01-07-2010, 01:28 PM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,085
There are many chamberings that work very well for deer, and moose for that matter..
Some of the more common ones that you are likely to encounter are 30-30, .35 rem., .303, .308, 30-06 , .270 or .243...
All are effective deer rifles.. A bolt action, lever action or pump rifle in any of these calibers ( as well as many others) would serve you well for deer hunting..
As far as what the caliber designations mean...That opens a whole new can of worms.. The English/ American system of naming cartridges follows no set rules.. Some calibers are named for thier bore diameter, some are named for the person or the firearms company that introduced them, yada, yada... For instance, the .270 Winchester actually uses a .277" bullet, but was introduced by Winchester.. The 30-06 features a 30 cal ( actually .308") bullet and was adopted by the US Govt in 1906... hence the "06".. It goes on and on and makes little sense..
The European system tends to be much more objective...In most cases, they are a metric description of the bore diameter X the case length...
For instance... 7X57 means a 7mm dia. bullet in a 57 MM (length) casing... 9.3 x 62 means a 9.3 mm bullet in a 62 mm casing....etc.etc.etc.
Some of the more common ones that you are likely to encounter are 30-30, .35 rem., .303, .308, 30-06 , .270 or .243...
All are effective deer rifles.. A bolt action, lever action or pump rifle in any of these calibers ( as well as many others) would serve you well for deer hunting..
As far as what the caliber designations mean...That opens a whole new can of worms.. The English/ American system of naming cartridges follows no set rules.. Some calibers are named for thier bore diameter, some are named for the person or the firearms company that introduced them, yada, yada... For instance, the .270 Winchester actually uses a .277" bullet, but was introduced by Winchester.. The 30-06 features a 30 cal ( actually .308") bullet and was adopted by the US Govt in 1906... hence the "06".. It goes on and on and makes little sense..
The European system tends to be much more objective...In most cases, they are a metric description of the bore diameter X the case length...
For instance... 7X57 means a 7mm dia. bullet in a 57 MM (length) casing... 9.3 x 62 means a 9.3 mm bullet in a 62 mm casing....etc.etc.etc.
Last edited by Pygmy; 01-07-2010 at 01:33 PM.
01-07-2010, 02:47 PM
#15
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 14
There are many chamberings that work very well for deer, and moose for that matter..
Some of the more common ones that you are likely to encounter are 30-30, .35 rem., .303, .308, 30-06 , .270 or .243...
All are effective deer rifles.. A bolt action, lever action or pump rifle in any of these calibers ( as well as many others) would serve you well for deer hunting..
As far as what the caliber designations mean...That opens a whole new can of worms.. The English/ American system of naming cartridges follows no set rules.. Some calibers are named for thier bore diameter, some are named for the person or the firearms company that introduced them, yada, yada... For instance, the .270 Winchester actually uses a .277" bullet, but was introduced by Winchester.. The 30-06 features a 30 cal ( actually .308") bullet and was adopted by the US Govt in 1906... hence the "06".. It goes on and on and makes little sense..
The European system tends to be much more objective...In most cases, they are a metric description of the bore diameter X the case length...
For instance... 7X57 means a 7mm dia. bullet in a 57 MM (length) casing... 9.3 x 62 means a 9.3 mm bullet in a 62 mm casing....etc.etc.etc.
Some of the more common ones that you are likely to encounter are 30-30, .35 rem., .303, .308, 30-06 , .270 or .243...
All are effective deer rifles.. A bolt action, lever action or pump rifle in any of these calibers ( as well as many others) would serve you well for deer hunting..
As far as what the caliber designations mean...That opens a whole new can of worms.. The English/ American system of naming cartridges follows no set rules.. Some calibers are named for thier bore diameter, some are named for the person or the firearms company that introduced them, yada, yada... For instance, the .270 Winchester actually uses a .277" bullet, but was introduced by Winchester.. The 30-06 features a 30 cal ( actually .308") bullet and was adopted by the US Govt in 1906... hence the "06".. It goes on and on and makes little sense..
The European system tends to be much more objective...In most cases, they are a metric description of the bore diameter X the case length...
For instance... 7X57 means a 7mm dia. bullet in a 57 MM (length) casing... 9.3 x 62 means a 9.3 mm bullet in a 62 mm casing....etc.etc.etc.
Wow, so when it comes to purchasing American style ammunition the numbers don't really represent the size (so much). i can assume that a .308 is a larger bullet than the .243 right? the numbers may not represent the exact size of the bullet but its something to go by?
I really like the idea of the metric system used in europe, why isn't that used in canada?
Is this book any-good?
"http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Ammo-and-Ballistics/Bob-W-Forker/e/9781571571618"
The reviews don't look very good.
-Josh
01-07-2010, 04:41 PM
#16
Spike
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 58
Here in South Carolina we have the option to take the hunters safety course online. A link to the course material is http://www.hunter-ed.com/sc/index.htm. This information is very basic, but it is where countless hunters in this part of the world got started. You will get answers to some of your questions, and it is free to read the material.
As for rifle selection, this should get you started. It is by no means a definitive guide. I have left a lot of things out and some of the experts will take issue with what i have written. but it will at least give you some idea of what questions to ask and what methods to use when evaluating your options.
Rifle Selection: you will need to make some decisions about what you want. I will list some of the areas you will need to research and decide on.
1. Action type: You will need to decide what action type you want.
Bolt action: this gun operates via a bolt that must be cycled with each shot. They tend to be the most accurate and most available of all rifle action types.
Lever Action. These rifles operate via a lever under the rifle that must be cycled with every shot. These rifles tend to be short and handy. They are the “cowboy” gun. As a general rule these guns are good for brush hunting as they are short and typically very handy.
Slide/Pump action: these rifles operate via a slide mounted under the barrel. They work in the same way as a pump shotgun.
Single shot break action: these guns open up via some type of latch. Each round must be inserted into the chamber. Most of these guns have an exposed hammer which must be ****ed for each shot. The main advantage to these rifles is the typically lower cost. They are very simple to operate and maintain.
Semi automatic: These guns load the next round automatically and are ready to shoot again once the trigger is pulled. The main advantage is a quick second shot. I personally do not recommend these guns as a first rifle. They are more complex to operate and IMHO not as safe as it is ready to fire with no intervention on your part. The other actions types must be manually cycled in order to fire the next round.
2. Cartridge selection (most important and difficult):
You will need to look at these factors(and others) and evaluate many different cartridges and select the one that fist your needs.
Intended game/ use: you indicate you want a rifle capable of taking up to deer sized animals. If you are in bear country you may want to include that animal to your wish list as you stand a chance of needing to defend yourself in the field.
Hunting range: you need to determine what range you plan on taking game. This will be based on the land you plan on hunting. If you are in dense brush you are unlikely to have a shot opportunity at great distances, so you don’t need a long range rifle. If you hunt agricultural fields or power lines(legal in my area) you may need a longer range round. You can use to internet to determine the effective range of a given round. You may also think about limiting your shots. Some of these new fangled rounds are capable of taking game at ranges much greater than I would ever think about shooting. That is a decision only you can make.
Relative power:
How “big” a round is has little to do with anything. What you want to know is how much relative power it has. Bullet diameter is not a good measure of this either. I will group some common rounds by relative power(I know I am leaving many, many rounds out but my gosh the kid is just starting out if he picks one of these he will have enough gun for deer hunting):
Low: these are what I conceder to be lowest power rounds acceptable for you goal of hunting deer: .243 Win, 30-30 Win, 25-06
Mid range: 7mm-08, .308
High/Mid(non magnum): 270 Win, 30-06 Springfield
High(magnum): 7mm Remington Ultra Mag, 300 Win Mag, 300 Win short Mag, etc., etc., etc:
Ok so lets look at a breakdown of a particular round, say a 30-06(my personal preference).
Game: it is good for just about all North American game I might not take it for the largest bear simply because they want to eat you and you simply cannot have too much gun in that case.
Range: well depending on who you ask something like 500 yards with practice. I limit myself to 300 yards on the very best day under the best of field situations. I tell new hunters to limit shots to 150 yards or so and at that with practice and good optics. A 30-06 will take game at just about any ethical hunting range.
Power: it is in the high/mid range by my estimation, it is more powerful than a 308 but less powerful than a 300 Win Mag(all use a projectile measuring .308 inches). So simply put a 30-06 is capable of taking deer(your goal), it is has a long range, not the longest but not the shortest either, and it is relatively powerful.
3. Brand, make, and model:
Don’t worry about this yet, when the time is right to make a purchase decision you need to visit as many gun shops as possible and point as many guns as you can. The final decision will boil down to what gun “feels best” to you. Nobody can tell you what gun points the best to you, this is a personal decision and you need to handle many rifles to decide. Just remember pick the one that points best for you. Any of the major brands will give you great service. Savage/ Stevens, Remington (not models 770 or 710), Ruger, Browning, Marlin, Mossberg, and all make quality rifles that will give you a lifetime of service.
Anyway i hope this helps some. The main point is to select a rifle and get into the woods. Time will teach you what you need to know, nobody said your first gun has to be perfect. Purchase something to get you hunting and learning.
As for rifle selection, this should get you started. It is by no means a definitive guide. I have left a lot of things out and some of the experts will take issue with what i have written. but it will at least give you some idea of what questions to ask and what methods to use when evaluating your options.
Rifle Selection: you will need to make some decisions about what you want. I will list some of the areas you will need to research and decide on.
1. Action type: You will need to decide what action type you want.
Bolt action: this gun operates via a bolt that must be cycled with each shot. They tend to be the most accurate and most available of all rifle action types.
Lever Action. These rifles operate via a lever under the rifle that must be cycled with every shot. These rifles tend to be short and handy. They are the “cowboy” gun. As a general rule these guns are good for brush hunting as they are short and typically very handy.
Slide/Pump action: these rifles operate via a slide mounted under the barrel. They work in the same way as a pump shotgun.
Single shot break action: these guns open up via some type of latch. Each round must be inserted into the chamber. Most of these guns have an exposed hammer which must be ****ed for each shot. The main advantage to these rifles is the typically lower cost. They are very simple to operate and maintain.
Semi automatic: These guns load the next round automatically and are ready to shoot again once the trigger is pulled. The main advantage is a quick second shot. I personally do not recommend these guns as a first rifle. They are more complex to operate and IMHO not as safe as it is ready to fire with no intervention on your part. The other actions types must be manually cycled in order to fire the next round.
2. Cartridge selection (most important and difficult):
You will need to look at these factors(and others) and evaluate many different cartridges and select the one that fist your needs.
Intended game/ use: you indicate you want a rifle capable of taking up to deer sized animals. If you are in bear country you may want to include that animal to your wish list as you stand a chance of needing to defend yourself in the field.
Hunting range: you need to determine what range you plan on taking game. This will be based on the land you plan on hunting. If you are in dense brush you are unlikely to have a shot opportunity at great distances, so you don’t need a long range rifle. If you hunt agricultural fields or power lines(legal in my area) you may need a longer range round. You can use to internet to determine the effective range of a given round. You may also think about limiting your shots. Some of these new fangled rounds are capable of taking game at ranges much greater than I would ever think about shooting. That is a decision only you can make.
Relative power:
How “big” a round is has little to do with anything. What you want to know is how much relative power it has. Bullet diameter is not a good measure of this either. I will group some common rounds by relative power(I know I am leaving many, many rounds out but my gosh the kid is just starting out if he picks one of these he will have enough gun for deer hunting):
Low: these are what I conceder to be lowest power rounds acceptable for you goal of hunting deer: .243 Win, 30-30 Win, 25-06
Mid range: 7mm-08, .308
High/Mid(non magnum): 270 Win, 30-06 Springfield
High(magnum): 7mm Remington Ultra Mag, 300 Win Mag, 300 Win short Mag, etc., etc., etc:
Ok so lets look at a breakdown of a particular round, say a 30-06(my personal preference).
Game: it is good for just about all North American game I might not take it for the largest bear simply because they want to eat you and you simply cannot have too much gun in that case.
Range: well depending on who you ask something like 500 yards with practice. I limit myself to 300 yards on the very best day under the best of field situations. I tell new hunters to limit shots to 150 yards or so and at that with practice and good optics. A 30-06 will take game at just about any ethical hunting range.
Power: it is in the high/mid range by my estimation, it is more powerful than a 308 but less powerful than a 300 Win Mag(all use a projectile measuring .308 inches). So simply put a 30-06 is capable of taking deer(your goal), it is has a long range, not the longest but not the shortest either, and it is relatively powerful.
3. Brand, make, and model:
Don’t worry about this yet, when the time is right to make a purchase decision you need to visit as many gun shops as possible and point as many guns as you can. The final decision will boil down to what gun “feels best” to you. Nobody can tell you what gun points the best to you, this is a personal decision and you need to handle many rifles to decide. Just remember pick the one that points best for you. Any of the major brands will give you great service. Savage/ Stevens, Remington (not models 770 or 710), Ruger, Browning, Marlin, Mossberg, and all make quality rifles that will give you a lifetime of service.
Anyway i hope this helps some. The main point is to select a rifle and get into the woods. Time will teach you what you need to know, nobody said your first gun has to be perfect. Purchase something to get you hunting and learning.
01-07-2010, 07:44 PM
#17
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tug Hill NY
Posts: 420
I know in Canada you are much more limited in how many guns you can own, and how often and where you can shoot. It certainly makes selection of your gun much more important, it probably being your only one. Generally speaking, the further north you go, the larger the species tends to be, meaning that up in Canada, like in the northern states, your deer can get pretty big. This means you want to keep up in a larger caliber- at least .30, stay away from the lighter .243s, etc.
Calibers are confusing. Generally speaking in the given caliber designation, it gives the caliber in hundredths of an inch, thus .22 is twenty two hundredths, .308 three hundred and eight hundreths of an inch, .45...etc.
This is only part of the story though. You can have many rounds in approx. the same caliber but different powers. The 30-30 is a very much lighter round (but adequate for deer) than the 30-06, which isnt as powerful as the .300 win mag, etc.
You cant go wrong as others have suggested by leaning toward a round such as the .270, 30.06, or .308. All will do whatever you ask of them if aimed properly. I prefer the .308, as it has essentially the same ballistics as both the older .270 and 30.06, but in a shorter and lighter action.
The best source for you is to simply read, read, read. These forums are a quick way to get a small snapshot of information, but no excuse for not hitting the books.Several excellent books on deer hunting are "Hunting Big Woods Bucks, by Hal Blood, and "How to Bag the Biggest Buck of Your Life" by Larry Benoit.
Both these books are about hunting the northern woods, and contain gobs of excellent information. Remember, alot of hunting is getting out there, scouting, and woodsmanship. Know your woods basics- safety, direction finding, how to dress, knife use, etc. It is alot to learn, and the basics that make the hunter are often overlooked. The pulling of the trigger only take a moment.
You mentioned you already had a pellet gun, and that is excellent. Never under estimate the importance of being able to practice marksmanship frequently. Good luck
Calibers are confusing. Generally speaking in the given caliber designation, it gives the caliber in hundredths of an inch, thus .22 is twenty two hundredths, .308 three hundred and eight hundreths of an inch, .45...etc.
This is only part of the story though. You can have many rounds in approx. the same caliber but different powers. The 30-30 is a very much lighter round (but adequate for deer) than the 30-06, which isnt as powerful as the .300 win mag, etc.
You cant go wrong as others have suggested by leaning toward a round such as the .270, 30.06, or .308. All will do whatever you ask of them if aimed properly. I prefer the .308, as it has essentially the same ballistics as both the older .270 and 30.06, but in a shorter and lighter action.
The best source for you is to simply read, read, read. These forums are a quick way to get a small snapshot of information, but no excuse for not hitting the books.Several excellent books on deer hunting are "Hunting Big Woods Bucks, by Hal Blood, and "How to Bag the Biggest Buck of Your Life" by Larry Benoit.
Both these books are about hunting the northern woods, and contain gobs of excellent information. Remember, alot of hunting is getting out there, scouting, and woodsmanship. Know your woods basics- safety, direction finding, how to dress, knife use, etc. It is alot to learn, and the basics that make the hunter are often overlooked. The pulling of the trigger only take a moment.
You mentioned you already had a pellet gun, and that is excellent. Never under estimate the importance of being able to practice marksmanship frequently. Good luck
01-08-2010, 06:09 AM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,329
Your situation is really interesting. Most folks that get into firearms and hunting don't normally care at this level of detail.
I almost want to advise you to buy a reloading manual. Though I think you'd quickly get overwhelmed.
Since you're a bigger guy, just get a .30-06. Read a lot of the posts here and it will all fall into place in time.
Tom
I almost want to advise you to buy a reloading manual. Though I think you'd quickly get overwhelmed.
Since you're a bigger guy, just get a .30-06. Read a lot of the posts here and it will all fall into place in time.
Tom
01-08-2010, 06:51 AM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Danville Va. U.S.A.
Posts: 2,324
Josh-
Don't hang your hat on everything that is said on this site. While it can be very informative at times, it turns ugly pretty easily. Your enthusiasm for hunting and the outdoors is apparent not to mention eagerness to learn. Don't discount shooting your pellet rifle. Shooting is shooting, practice is practice, safety is safety, no matter what the weapon. I suggest heading to the library and try to find some youth hunting books. Ducks Unlimited has one titled "The Young Hunters Guide to Duck Hunting and Conservation." I think that's the exact title. Anyway, while you may not be interested in ducks, it has some very good information about firearms, safety, and conservation. Don't worry about titles such as "beginner" or "youth". We all have to start somewhere. For now though, don't get too caught up in what rifle to buy. You will change your mind 100 times. Go to as many shops as you can and handle all that they will let you. Read, read, read....
Most hunters will gladly take the time to show you things and answer questions. There is nothing more satisfying than remembering our own beginnings, and passing it along to others.
Good Luck!
VA
Don't hang your hat on everything that is said on this site. While it can be very informative at times, it turns ugly pretty easily. Your enthusiasm for hunting and the outdoors is apparent not to mention eagerness to learn. Don't discount shooting your pellet rifle. Shooting is shooting, practice is practice, safety is safety, no matter what the weapon. I suggest heading to the library and try to find some youth hunting books. Ducks Unlimited has one titled "The Young Hunters Guide to Duck Hunting and Conservation." I think that's the exact title. Anyway, while you may not be interested in ducks, it has some very good information about firearms, safety, and conservation. Don't worry about titles such as "beginner" or "youth". We all have to start somewhere. For now though, don't get too caught up in what rifle to buy. You will change your mind 100 times. Go to as many shops as you can and handle all that they will let you. Read, read, read....
Most hunters will gladly take the time to show you things and answer questions. There is nothing more satisfying than remembering our own beginnings, and passing it along to others.
Good Luck!
VA
Good post here,Jmho but I don't think you can take to many hunter safety courses.Just like anything else you never stop learning.Find a bud that hunts as I am sure he or she for that matter would probaly be glad to help get you started.As for rifle once again JMHO but I think I would opt for a good bolt action .Remington model 700 ,Browning ,Winchester model 70 ,( I prefer the "classic model" in the winchester).Caliber i would go with the tried and true 30-06 They have been around for a long time for a reason
.Ammo for these are usually available anywhere.With the 30-06 you will be good to go for just about any critter up to the "BIG" Bears.Then you would probaly want to go with something larger and more powerful.The 30-06 will give you a pretty good selection of different bullet weights for different aplications.These things you will learn as you go and will eventually just become second nature .Finally do not forget the glass you rifle is only going to shoot as good as your glass will let it.Hope this helps.As said before don't get carried away with brands.FIT and FEEL is what makes your gun for you.Handle as many as you can and see what feels and comes up the best for you.
01-08-2010, 06:55 AM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,085
Wow, so when it comes to purchasing American style ammunition the numbers don't really represent the size (so much). i can assume that a .308 is a larger bullet than the .243 right? the numbers may not represent the exact size of the bullet but its something to go by?
I really like the idea of the metric system used in europe, why isn't that used in canada?
Is this book any-good?
"http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Ammo-and-Ballistics/Bob-W-Forker/e/9781571571618"
The reviews don't look very good.
-Josh
I really like the idea of the metric system used in europe, why isn't that used in canada?
Is this book any-good?
"http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Ammo-and-Ballistics/Bob-W-Forker/e/9781571571618"
The reviews don't look very good.
-Josh
Actually, the designation of calibers in hundrendths of an inch is the British method... Canada, being a British colony, as were the United States, has continued this practice...
The continental Europeans started using the metric system back in the 1800s..