My First Rifle Purchase
 

First off I'd like to say hi and I've been scouring these forums for information and I've found a lot of great threads.

I'm in the market for my first rifle purchase. Since I was 12 I've used a Winchester Model 94 30-30 and it's been fantastic. Now that Im older and completed college I can actually afford to purchase a new rifle for my first time and needless to say I'm psyched.

I've had pretty good luck narrowing down the rifle to a Savage 14 American Classic with a Nikon Buckmaster 3x9x40. I've had a little more challenge with deciding between a .308 or a .270WSM. I know both will be fantastic, it will be primarily used for New England whitetail hunting and maybe some bear hunting if I ever decide to tread those waters.

The other guns I seriously looked at were the Winchester 70, Browning X bolt and this weekend I'm going to go look at a Weatherby Vanguard sporter. Whats your guys thoughts? I'm basically looking for one gun that I will keep as my deer rifle for years and years as my next gun is going to be a nice O/U for duck hunting.

Basically I wanted to say hi and spout out what I can't really talk to my friends around Boston about!

Can't go wrong with the X-Bolt, and just for whitetails stick with a .270win instead of a WSM. Cheaper to shoot and your not giving up much in speed or energy.

Those are all good choices, look at them, and throw in a Remington Model 700 BDL or CDL-SF into the mix for good measure. As for 308 vs. 270 WSM. I'd say both will serve you well. As a handloader, I'd probably go with the 270 WSM. If you don't plan on handloading, the 308 Win will be cheaper to shoot, ammo will be more available and offered in a wider selection of bullets than the 270 WSM.

The CDL-SF... IMO one of the nicest looking factory rifles available:



Looking at it it's not offered in 308 Win, but 30-06 Springfield is comparable and is offered. It is offered in 7mm-08 though, which is a great deer cartridge in itself.

Mike

I have a remington 700 and love it, great looking rifle and very accurate, theres also an endless amount of aftermarket stocks ,parts and accessories for it in case you ever want to customize it. I also had a savage 114 7mag that I got in trade a while back. another very nice gun if you like walnut stocks. cant go wrong w/ browning either.
I also recomend leupold, ziess, sightron or bushnell elite series scopes.

IMO the best calibers for deer for various reasons are 7-08, 280rem, 25-06 & 270win

Hey thanks for the replies.

I was initally looking at the Rem 700 CDL but they didnt have it in a .308 which is when I started looking at other rifles. I thought the action on the Remm was one of the best that I felt though. I looked at a Ruger M77 but I didn't really like the feel of it in my hands and I thought the bolt felt a little sloppy, might have just been me.

I really liked the feel of the Savage, the action, the trigger and the stock all felt fantastic. I also really liked the Browning Medallion, the high gloss was really nice looking and I thought it had the best feeling bolt / action of all rifles I held. The major downside on the browning was how much thicker the grips are, I'm 5'6" with probably very normal sized hands.

I have yet to hold the Weatherby but I should be going to look at that this weekend which I'm very excited about. Price hasn't really been a concern ~800ish for the rifle but the Savage was 499.99 and everything I read on it was amazing. Lots of talk about just how accurate they're out of the box and how they're trying to make a new name for themselves.

I'm still very undecided on the .270wsm or the .308. For whatever reason that isnt real legitimate I want a short action gun.

If you really like the Rem700 CDL, then look at the 7mm-08 Remington version. It's merely a 308 Win case necked down to 7mm (0.284"). It'll give you just about the same energy of the 308 Win but will shoot flatter and kick a little less. And it's a short action. I don't think that you'll be disappointed with the 7mm-08.

Mike

I think you're on the right track with the Savage. In fact, I'm going to buy a 14 American Classic later this month in .243. It's very, very hard to better in the trigger department than the Accutrigger.

If you're still open to suggestions, another fantastic rifle is the Tikka. This rifle is made in Finland by the esteemed Finnish rifle maker Sako and for out of the box accuracy and a durable design, they are tough to beat. The cost is almost exactly the same as the Savage, which technically makes them even better because they share many of Sako's design attributes, but they come at about half the price of a Sako.

As far as your cartridge choices, a couple of thoughts.

I'm a handloader and the .270 WSM is one of those "short" cartridges like the .243 WSSM that doesn't offer a whole lot of advantages over its "long" cousin other than the shorter bolt action, of course.

As a tradeoff, you're sacrificing a lot in terms of off-the-shelf ammo selection and WSM ammo almost always sells at a significant premium. It wouldn't be unheard of to spend $25 or more per box for WSM ammo. I don't know about you, but when I get a new rifle I want to shoot it and I personally don't feel prepared unless I shoot at least a box of ammo before each season. That could run up quite a tab with the WSM.

There's nothing wrong with a .308, but have you considered a .30-06? Ballistically, they're fairly close, but with a slight edge to the 06. In terms of ammo selection, however, the 06 beats everything hands down. You can get everything you'd ever want off the shelf in .30-06 and for your needs I think it's worth considering.

Welcom and good luck.

Grouse

Since you're in New England and not out west somewhere I don't think that you need the 270 wsm. If you want the short action take a look at the 7mm-08, it's a .308 necked down to 7mm. You don't need the extra power from the short magnum, and the 7mm-08 will be much easier on the shoulder.

Ok so here it goes.

I haven't held a Tikka in my hands yet but I was looking at the Sako A7 but that was before I decided I want to go with a wood stock of some sort. The Sako felt great but it was real light and at my size it would have just abused my shoulder.

I have considered a 30-06 and there is one major reason I'm staying away from it. I have 3 of them coming down the pipline once the generations start knocking off, Grandpa has 2 dad has 1. I know its a fantastic and incredibly universal round but thats the primary reason I'm not getting one. My grandpa's primary deer rifle his whole life has been a Winchester 100 .308, he swears by it has shot countless bucks and wouldn't bring anything else in the woods so naturally he thinks I shouldn't be shooting anything but one of those.

Im going to look into the 7mm, its one of the rounds I always knew about but never really looked into. Plus I don't think my family owns any so definitly worth a look.

Thanks guys!

Fair enough, just wanted to ask about the 06 because it fits in the range of calibers you mentioned.

Re the issue of recoil, I'm not sure you should place too much stock in how hard a gun may or may not kick. Granted you are of--errrrm--slight stature, but there are a couple of reasons why I'm not sure you can make recoil too much of an issue.

First, all of the guns you're looking at are within 1 pound of each other and all are bolt actions so the action isn't going to give you any recoil reduction as an autoloader would. The 16 ounces between the lightest and the heaviest will only change the felt recoil the slightest amount if at all. And for that price, you get to carry extra ounces around the woods.

IMO, to really reduce recoil, you have to have a gun that's dramatically heavier than the ones you're looking at.

I suppose it depends on how much recoil really bothers you keeping in mind that if you shoot this rifle 20 times each year, you'll be shooting it about twice as much as most deer hunters do. If recoil really bothers you, using a good recoil pad (at the range) and possibly a muzzle brake are better options than buying a heavier gun, IMO.

Personally, I think you're on the right track with the .270, but again I wouldn't get the wsm, just the regular .270. The .270 is a really good caliber, it's not a shiny new thing, but some things are popular because they just plain work. It's a real workhorse that can dispatch deer and bear with plenty of authority.

Other options would be the .280 Rem and 7mm-08. Ammo will be more limited for these options, but that may or may not matter to you all that much depending on if you have access to stores with a good selection. Obviously if you got into rural areas, the hardware store selection of .280 ammo could be a real issue, but most Walmarts will stock it.

Good luck and let us know what you pick out.

Grouse

A .270 was the original rifle I set out to buy when I started browsing the market a month ago. I believe I just need to pick one and run with it. The 270 always appealed to me because even though I hunt in the NE area it would be universal if I wanted to go somewhere else and hunt. My father lives in Colorado and it would definitly be great for some game out there as well. Its when I saw the .270 WSM that I got pulled away from the .270.

Well, at least it's not an industry with limited options!

Actually recoil isnt really a problem, I just remember the gun being very light. The only thing I've done that ever really makes my shoulder sore is a day of duck hunting and honestly the adrenaline makes most of that go away!

Let's just say it's hard to go wrong. Many good cartridges, rifles, and scopes are out there. Any ole -06 or -08 cartridge would be a simple way to start.

There's no way I would go with a 270wsm. The ammo is more expensive and less available.

I think you're on the right path with the 308. The 308 is plentiful, cheap and maybe the best all around hunting cartridge. It can take bear, hogs, deer, coyotes etc. depending upon the load. Plus, it can do it all without hammering your shoulder with crazy recoil.

If you're set on the 270 get it and steer clear of the WSM. I have a buddy who bought a 300 WSM and I own a 300 Win mag. The recoil difference is really small, but his ammo costs almost double what mine does. He also has a harder time finding it, because it's a niche cartridge.

Nothing wrong with a Savage. for deer, 308, 30.06 or my fav 7mm-08 are all perfect. A 270 works well too. Personally i would go with 7mm-08.

So are you buying this rifle, or is your grandpa? He's got his favorite deer rifle, but it's up to you to find your own. The 308 Win is a great cartridge, but it's your money and will be your gun. Get what YOU want. I'd suggest you find a rifle you like first, and worry about the cartridge later. Unless you're looking for something unusual, just about every manufacturer chambers for the Big 7 (.243 Win, 308 Win, 25-06 Rem, 270 Win, 30-06 Springfield, 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag). Any of these are awesome deer cartridges. The 7mm-08 has also been recommended several times, and would be another great choice.

Mike

I'm pretty much set on the Savage 14/114 American Classic but I still havent felt the Weatherby so I'm making the trip this weekend to look at it. My biggest concern at this point is finding the rifle that I like the most.

+2 on the 7mm-08 excellent deer round and own several of them. A good 700 action is very hard to beat as well!:sign0016:

I like the 7mm looks like a great round, Ill knock the 270wsm off the list and look at that. Would you have any problems taking a 7mm-08 on a bear hunt?

Black bear... no problem at all. Brown bear... yes. But then again, if I were going looking to pick a fight with a Grizzly bear, I'd want to be packing at LEAST a 338 Win Mag, but probably more like a 375 RUM. But that's just me.

Mike

The 7mm-08 isn't a bad choice. The only problem I see is it's almost identical in terms of velocity and energy when compared to the 308. The 308 is still cheaper and has more versatility in loads and can be found everywhere.

With that said, I see no problem with the 270, 7mm-08 or the plain jane 308. I just really dislike the WSM cartridges, because they cost a lot more, are harder to find and don't knock enough recoil off to be worth it. IMHO, if you want to reduce recoil get a limbsaver pad and buy reduced recoil rounds and you'll come out ahead if that's the goal.

As mentioned by the above poster black bear no problem, but I wouldn't hunt a grizzly with it. Grizzly is a different beast all together.

Hey thanks for the help guys, I doubt anytime in my near future I would be hunting Grizzly bears. If that type of adventure ever came around Im sure I would have a guide and I would be taking out the 375H&H.

Driftrider - I went to BPS yesterday and they actually had one of the CDL SF in stock 30-06. It really is a beautiful gun that might have swayed my decision of going with a blued barrel. The hit the color of that stock spot on, fit to finish it looks fantastic.

Yes, they are pretty. The fluted barrel really sets it off. You won't go wrong with that rifle. Just have them order one in 7mm-08 Rem, slap some decent glass on it, and you'll have yourself a deer's worst nightmare.

Here's my baby. I got this rifle last March as my "legacy rifle" (meaning I plan to give it to one of my kids, but not until I'm stone cold dead ;)). The only thing it doesn't have is a fluted barrel, but that will be corrected someday after I rebarrel it after burning the factory barrel out! :party0007:

It's a Remington Model 700 LSS Limited Edition in 257 Weatherby Mag wearing a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x50mm Side Focus w/Mil-Dot reticle:



The scope it probably too big for the application with the 50mm objective, but for the deal I got, I'll live with it. I can see 25cal shot holes at 200 yards at legal sunset with it. It's one awesome piece of glass. :s2::D :cool2: I love this rifle.

Mike

DR, that's a nice looking rifle. Out of curiosity, have you ever weighed it with that scope on it? I'd just be curious to know what the full setup weighs in real life.

Grouse

No, but I'd guess right about 9lbs, give or take a 1/4 pound. It's lighter than my Savage 10ML-II muzzleloader, but heavier than my Savage 111 30-06. The scope weighs 19.75oz (1.23 lbs).

Mike

So after all this, the going back and forth about what gun I want or what caliber I want I ended up getting a new rifle today. I went to a massive gun shop that was fantastic, they had every single rifle that was on my list in the shop and on the floor to hold and play with.

So here it is, Browning X-Bolt .270 Win w/ Nikon Buckmaster 3x9x40

NIOWCE! is there anything better than a brand new rifle and scope ? I think not.

Yes... TWO brand new rifles and scopes! ;) :s3: :s2:

Nice looking rifle there, DrHouse. The Brownings are good guns. I look forward to a detailed range report after you get her out and shoot her.

Mike

Beautiful rifle. Get some lead through it.

Thanks guys, I really like the feel of this rifle. I went back and held everything, played with every action and went over everything with a fine tooth comb. I got there at 1030am and finally had a winner at 130pm!! I passed up a hell of a deal on a very slightly used Rem 700 CDL SF 30-06 with a leapold 3x9x50 for 949.99.

After everything was said and done the Browning just felt the best in my hands, the trigger is crisp, the action feels fantastic and it was the look I really wanted, matte stock and matte barrel.

I also saw a shotgun there that my buddy was real close to buying but we didnt know much about it. It was a Browning 70th anniversary Silver Ducks Unlimited semi auto. The artwork on it was beautiful, it was in about 97% condition and they wanted 795.00 for it. He didnt get it because we didnt know anything about it, but none the less a very nice shotgun!

X-Bolt in .270 Win.

If you're stuck on a short action...

perhaps the 7mm-08 instead of the .308?

I think a .30 caliber is more versatile, or more adequate across the board than the .27cal

The .270wsm is a smoker, very fast, flat, perhaps too fast for close shots? could slow it down a bit and get a .300wsm, plenty flat, kinda the new .30-06 in some ways, so definitely versatile.

hard to go wrong with any, so maybe consider the 7mm-08 or .300wsm?

The only thing I've been real xoncerned about with the Browning is I got the Hunter series and its a 22" barrel. I know .270 really shines in a 24" barrel.

Guys, look back at page 3 any you'll see he already decided and bought a Browning X-Bolt in 270 Win. Posted pics and everything!:s4::s3:

Mike

I wouldn't worry. You'll lose some velocity, but your accuracy should remain.

Thats good to know, I'm looking to find some comparason numbers of a .270 with a 22 vs 24 barrel. I believe if I really wanted to I could go back and trade that for the 24" model Browning.

~50fps lost, maybe more.

Most ballistics are given using a 24" barrel

Yeah even if its 50-75 fps lost I dont think its anything to be overly concerned about. The guns fit and feel is amazing and coming from a Model 94 30-30 Carbine its going to be MUCH faster. Im happy with the purcase and since I mostly hunt in NE none of my shots are over 100 yards. Even in the future when I hunt in Colorado I doubt I would take a shot over 300 yards

Nebraska? New England?

New England, mostly Mass and New York