Slug guns?
11-09-2009, 10:56 AM
#1
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: IL
Posts: 6,575
Slug guns?
What makes for the most accurate slug gun?
I've looked at the Tar-hunt slug guns, bolt action, 1:28" twist rate on their rifled barrels, but certainly not looking to spend anywhere near that kind of cash, $2500+
The savage slug gun looks pretty similar to the tar-hunt, but I think I read it has a 1:35" twist rate? For a 12ga...1:23" for a 20ga. What are the twist rates for other guns in 20ga, anyone know?
Do you think 20ga slugs are inherently more accurate than 12ga slugs? If I get a new slug gun I plan to get a 20ga.
Not a big fan of cantilever barrels/scope mounts, but if a more accurate slug gun has a canti I wouldn't oppose it necessarily either.
What about semi-autos vs. pump action vs. bolt action slug guns? I would assume a bolt or pump might be more accurate, is this right or don't you think? I've only shot semi autos and wanting accuracy thinking a pump like an 870 or bolt like the savage might be the way to go...
I've always thought 2 3/4" slugs were more accurate, but read somewhere that longer/faster the round the more accurate usually? is this true? Maybe 3" would shoot nicer in my current set ups. Either way I think I want an accurate 20ga slug.
I've looked at the Tar-hunt slug guns, bolt action, 1:28" twist rate on their rifled barrels, but certainly not looking to spend anywhere near that kind of cash, $2500+
The savage slug gun looks pretty similar to the tar-hunt, but I think I read it has a 1:35" twist rate? For a 12ga...1:23" for a 20ga. What are the twist rates for other guns in 20ga, anyone know?
Do you think 20ga slugs are inherently more accurate than 12ga slugs? If I get a new slug gun I plan to get a 20ga.
Not a big fan of cantilever barrels/scope mounts, but if a more accurate slug gun has a canti I wouldn't oppose it necessarily either.
What about semi-autos vs. pump action vs. bolt action slug guns? I would assume a bolt or pump might be more accurate, is this right or don't you think? I've only shot semi autos and wanting accuracy thinking a pump like an 870 or bolt like the savage might be the way to go...
I've always thought 2 3/4" slugs were more accurate, but read somewhere that longer/faster the round the more accurate usually? is this true? Maybe 3" would shoot nicer in my current set ups. Either way I think I want an accurate 20ga slug.
Last edited by salukipv1; 11-09-2009 at 11:13 AM.
11-09-2009, 01:53 PM
#2
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: central square, new york
Posts: 552
a cantilever barrel will be more accurate than a receiver mount because the barrel will move a little bit and the scope is attached to that barrel so the scope moves with the barrel also
get a pump gun cheap and reliable
dont waste time with 3" they kick hard and 2 3/4" are more accurate
for a suggestion i would say get a mossberg 500 or remington 870 with a cantilever rifled barrel
get a pump gun cheap and reliable
dont waste time with 3" they kick hard and 2 3/4" are more accurate
for a suggestion i would say get a mossberg 500 or remington 870 with a cantilever rifled barrel
11-09-2009, 04:35 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
I agree with the above statement that a cantliever barrel is typically more accuracte and repeatable than a receiver mount, espeically if your shotgun multi-tasks and you are changing out barrels frequently.
That said, the real problem in my eyes with a canteliever barrel, or most any shotgun not specifically designed to shoot slugs, is that its made to shoot birds to have the shooter looking down the rib.... not looking over the barrel through a scope... it makes you have to lift your head way way up off the stock, and frankly it feels very un-natural. I have an 1100 12ga with a canteliever barrel on it as my slug gun.... it works fine... and it was free.... and I really don't ever use the damn thing as my BP gun will shoot much better and I'm much more comfortable and confident with it.
I think the biggest problem with slug guns, is that most people think that just because they have scopes and rifled barrels that they are rifles... and that just ain't so. You cannot expect rifle like accuracy out of a slug gun.... you might luck up and get it.... but more likely than not.... you'll be dissappointed. You'll get 'Minute-of-Deer" accuracy out to 125-150 yards with a decent one... 150-175 with a good one... and anything over 200 in my experience is exceptionally rare. 'Minute-of deer' accuracy, by the way, is a 5" group... just one of my analogies. Keep in mind that a centerfire rifle that shot a 5" group at 200 yards wouldn't be fit to use as a drag anchor... but its a gem of a slug gun.
Lots of folks have had decent success with the single shot NEFs. They certainly handle very well and you don't get the issue with shooting position like you will with a cant. barrel. And considering they run about the same price as a cant. barrel... I think they are a better choice personally. Again... lots of them shoot good.... and couple shoot great... and I've seen a few dogs.
The 20 vs 12 debate does have some merit on both sides.
If you want horsepower... the 12 is a better choice. Period. You have faster speeds, and with heavier slugs and leave bigger holes... game, set, match. And, despite some stupid rumor someone started.... it also shoots flatter.... just read the side of the damn box...... however, it also is often in a heavier gun, and still kicks harder. No matter how fast it shoots, if you cannot shoot it and handle it to put a slug where it needs to be... you might as well have a pellet gun... at least you won't stir the woods up as much.
The 20 is much more enjoyable to shoot... the velocity is really quite near what the 12s are despite shooting a lighter payload (generally... in the same cartridge and slug respecitively). Its easier to carry and easier to shoot well. Both of which are major considerations....
Inside of 100 yards... it doesn't make one bit of difference personally. Beyond that, its kind of a crap shoot.
I can't speak on twist rates in slug guns. The gun guys at Savage didn't just fall off the turnip cart.... so I suspect its that way for a reason.
Personally now, if I was to buy a new slug gun today.... I'd be looking at a Savage 20 ga bolt.... followed by a 12ga bolt if none other was available. If I am going to try and shoot a shotgun like a rifle.... then I want it built like one and I want it to feel like one. If nothing else... at least it will look cool when I miss.
That said, the real problem in my eyes with a canteliever barrel, or most any shotgun not specifically designed to shoot slugs, is that its made to shoot birds to have the shooter looking down the rib.... not looking over the barrel through a scope... it makes you have to lift your head way way up off the stock, and frankly it feels very un-natural. I have an 1100 12ga with a canteliever barrel on it as my slug gun.... it works fine... and it was free.... and I really don't ever use the damn thing as my BP gun will shoot much better and I'm much more comfortable and confident with it.
I think the biggest problem with slug guns, is that most people think that just because they have scopes and rifled barrels that they are rifles... and that just ain't so. You cannot expect rifle like accuracy out of a slug gun.... you might luck up and get it.... but more likely than not.... you'll be dissappointed. You'll get 'Minute-of-Deer" accuracy out to 125-150 yards with a decent one... 150-175 with a good one... and anything over 200 in my experience is exceptionally rare. 'Minute-of deer' accuracy, by the way, is a 5" group... just one of my analogies. Keep in mind that a centerfire rifle that shot a 5" group at 200 yards wouldn't be fit to use as a drag anchor... but its a gem of a slug gun.
Lots of folks have had decent success with the single shot NEFs. They certainly handle very well and you don't get the issue with shooting position like you will with a cant. barrel. And considering they run about the same price as a cant. barrel... I think they are a better choice personally. Again... lots of them shoot good.... and couple shoot great... and I've seen a few dogs.
The 20 vs 12 debate does have some merit on both sides.
If you want horsepower... the 12 is a better choice. Period. You have faster speeds, and with heavier slugs and leave bigger holes... game, set, match. And, despite some stupid rumor someone started.... it also shoots flatter.... just read the side of the damn box...... however, it also is often in a heavier gun, and still kicks harder. No matter how fast it shoots, if you cannot shoot it and handle it to put a slug where it needs to be... you might as well have a pellet gun... at least you won't stir the woods up as much.
The 20 is much more enjoyable to shoot... the velocity is really quite near what the 12s are despite shooting a lighter payload (generally... in the same cartridge and slug respecitively). Its easier to carry and easier to shoot well. Both of which are major considerations....
Inside of 100 yards... it doesn't make one bit of difference personally. Beyond that, its kind of a crap shoot.
I can't speak on twist rates in slug guns. The gun guys at Savage didn't just fall off the turnip cart.... so I suspect its that way for a reason.
Personally now, if I was to buy a new slug gun today.... I'd be looking at a Savage 20 ga bolt.... followed by a 12ga bolt if none other was available. If I am going to try and shoot a shotgun like a rifle.... then I want it built like one and I want it to feel like one. If nothing else... at least it will look cool when I miss.
Last edited by SwampCollie; 11-09-2009 at 04:40 PM.
11-09-2009, 05:01 PM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: IL
Posts: 6,575
I currently have 2 dedicated sluggers, so this would be a dedicated slugger as well.
Kinda like that browning bps as a pump, or that savage as a bolt.
Only have had rem1100, but know of the 870's just not sure of their slug gun setups.
I just know that tar hunt is suppose to be amazing, and it seems like that savage is the closest thing to that.
Think you can cycle a pump faster than a bolt? or vice versa? no difference? really when I think slug gun I think 1 shot anyway from a stand, not taking 3 shots at a running buck....
My current 2 sluggers are semi autos so I'd hope a pump or bolt would be more accurate, also a 20ga, as even though I've only used 12s I think a 20 has plenty of power and nowadays both have shells going 1900-2000fps so flattness isn't an issue, also if 1400fps shells shot better I'd shoot those over high speed that didn't.
Kinda like that browning bps as a pump, or that savage as a bolt.
Only have had rem1100, but know of the 870's just not sure of their slug gun setups.
I just know that tar hunt is suppose to be amazing, and it seems like that savage is the closest thing to that.
Think you can cycle a pump faster than a bolt? or vice versa? no difference? really when I think slug gun I think 1 shot anyway from a stand, not taking 3 shots at a running buck....
My current 2 sluggers are semi autos so I'd hope a pump or bolt would be more accurate, also a 20ga, as even though I've only used 12s I think a 20 has plenty of power and nowadays both have shells going 1900-2000fps so flattness isn't an issue, also if 1400fps shells shot better I'd shoot those over high speed that didn't.
11-09-2009, 09:37 PM
#5
Spike
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Salem, CT
Posts: 12
I didn't read everything here but will give you the short of my experience. I had a mossberg 835 and put a cantelever rifled barrel on it. I couldn't hit a large pizza box at 100 yards, the cantelever would move like a tuning fork bawangggggg.
I went with this http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/ultraSlug.asp the barrels are extra thick, and the weaver rail is already mounted on the barrle. 3" groups at 100 yards. They don't cost too much either.
I went with this http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/ultraSlug.asp the barrels are extra thick, and the weaver rail is already mounted on the barrle. 3" groups at 100 yards. They don't cost too much either.
11-10-2009, 12:39 AM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
Yeah, I can certainly shoot a pump faster... but thats not exactly what I'd base my buying decision on. Looking back, there was only ever one deer I shot at twice with slugs... and I was about 15 years old shooting iron sights out of a bolt action Marlin 512. Shot at a buck at about 65 yards and (literally) blew his left antler off just above the brow tine (OK, I was a bit shook up). I'm kinda suprised it didn't kill him... it takes right much force to break an antler clean off like that... or I'm at least suprised it didn't knock him out a bit... I have seen it happen second hand before... and BTW.... not a great way to go about your deer killing either! The deer ran off to my left and I threw another one at him.... nothing...
Every deer I have shot at with slugs since hasn't gone anywhere. Course I've learned a lot in the 11 years since anyway.
11-10-2009, 03:59 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,445
I think the Tar-Hunt company will customize Rem 870s to make them accurate, dedicated slug guns. They pin the barrel and do some other modifications for around 500. If you already have an 870 this may be the way to go.
If I were to buy a slug gun right now, it would be the Savage. I might buy the 20 over the 12, but I'd have to check the latest ballistics.
But truthfully, my Mossberg 500 with smoothbore slug barrel - open sights and rifled slugs (at less than $5 per box) would easily kill every deer I've ever taken with a slug except one.
If I were to buy a slug gun right now, it would be the Savage. I might buy the 20 over the 12, but I'd have to check the latest ballistics.
But truthfully, my Mossberg 500 with smoothbore slug barrel - open sights and rifled slugs (at less than $5 per box) would easily kill every deer I've ever taken with a slug except one.
11-10-2009, 10:36 AM
#8
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: IL
Posts: 6,575
ya after reading/studying them, I think that savage sounds like its probably the best/most accurate out of the box slugger out there, not sure what the rifle twists rates are for the 12 and 20ga though.
I think I may just spend a lil cash and get it see how it does, if it sucks I'll sell it, but I'm guessing it'll be nicer than both of my two semi sluggers already have that were priced much higher.
I'm almost certain I'll get a 20ga slug, 99.9% sure, both 20 and 12ga have slugs that go 1900 or 2000fps, and I'd never shoot 3.5" slugs from a 12ga, I already shoot the 2 3/4" 12ga now.
Now if I can just come up with some cash and find one before the next couple of weeks, haha, I think I may just pick one up when I get the chance and break it out next year for the first time maybe. I mostly bowhunt anyway so it may just be a target gun mostly til I need to break it ou some season.
I think I may just spend a lil cash and get it see how it does, if it sucks I'll sell it, but I'm guessing it'll be nicer than both of my two semi sluggers already have that were priced much higher.
I'm almost certain I'll get a 20ga slug, 99.9% sure, both 20 and 12ga have slugs that go 1900 or 2000fps, and I'd never shoot 3.5" slugs from a 12ga, I already shoot the 2 3/4" 12ga now.
Now if I can just come up with some cash and find one before the next couple of weeks, haha, I think I may just pick one up when I get the chance and break it out next year for the first time maybe. I mostly bowhunt anyway so it may just be a target gun mostly til I need to break it ou some season.
