What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR? (Updated with Pictures on the 4th Page)
 

Before anyone asks I'm giving it time to cool down. I will shoot 1-2 shots and then wait 5-15 mintues. I've tried waiting about 10 minutes after each shot and waiting longer after 2 shots. It doesn't seem to help. I'm not just firing off emptying the magazine so I am letting it cool down.
Ok, here goes.
I have a Browning BAR 30-06 I bought used a couple years ago. Well right under 2 years. It's a older gun but not super old. According to the serial number it was made in 1990. So as you can see not new but not old either. When I got it it appeared to be in really good exterior shape. Had a dimple in the wood and something on the metal on the receiver. Just like the size of a nickel that's just rough textured. Not sure what it is. Anyway, it appeared to honestly be in like new shape which is why I bought it.

I like the feel of the gun and it looks nice but I can't get it to shoot worth a damn. Now I don't have the best vise to hold it down so I wouldn't be surprised if a tiny bit of it is me moving but a buddy whom is really good with shooting also shot it and said he wondered if maybe something was wrong with the gun.

I shot it at a buddy's when sighting it in with Winchester Silvertips and his furthest target was 50 yards. He has a nice vise though and I could get it so that each hole was touching the other at 50 yards. Now his vise was a lot better than mine so it held it still better than I can in mine. However, I can do pretty well with it at 50 yards in my vise. At 50 yards I'd say the group was about 1" with all the holes touching. It opened up to one big hole about 1" in diameter after 6 shots. So would that be how big the group is?

The problem is when I move out to 100 yards. The Federal Fusions are the only ones I've gotten to shoot halfway decent in it and I'd say I get about a 2" grouping from them at best. The bulleye on my target is 1" in diamter and there is a ring around the bullseye that is 1" away from the bullseye. I can put them inside that ring but not inside the bullseye so I'd say that's a 2" group. Sometimes it opens up to a 3" group but since I have gotten them in the 2" that makes me think it's me.

Now any other bullet I've tried I can't do that. It will sometimes shoot 2 in the same spot as in same hole. Then the next two will be 4" away. I have 8" targets and I can hit the target each time but it's all over the place. I'd say about a 6" group at 100 yards. This to me is crazy. I finally found the Fusions that do a lot better as said but they are also pretty expensive which isn't my favorite thing.

I've just never had it shoot how I want. I guess I'm wanting the holes touching each other at 100 yards although I'm not sure that will ever happn.

What is a resonable group to expect from this gun? Is a 2-3" group I'm getting with the Fusions pretty decent for this gun or is it horrible?

I've had a few people tell me if I can get a 6" group to count myself lucky since it's a semi auto. That if I want accuracy get a bolt action. Then I've had others tell me that's about as good as I'd probably get from most guns so that the 2" groups with the Fusions are really good. Then others have told me something seems to be wrong with the gun. What do you guys think? What kind of groups are resonable for this? Should I send it off and have Browning check it out for the heck of it or are my groups about as good as it will see?

I spent probably $500 in bullets testing different kinds over the last year and several boxes of a couple kinds trying to get it sighted in. I'm getting tired of it.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

I would have a gunsmith or someone very knowledgeable about rifles check it out. It could a worn, loose or defective part in the action. Another posibility is something isnot tight/rightbetween the barrel, receiver, action, gun to stock, bases or rings. Is this rifle suppose to be bedded or free floating - if so is that part okay? Is the stock sound? How does the rifling look? Is it pitted or worn? How does the crown look? Is the barrel bent in any way? Is the trigger pull so high it is hard to be accurate? I had a rifle like this - so I adjusted the trigger (make sure you know what you are doing here or have a gunsmith do it for you). Personally, I don't shoot from a vice as you may crack the stock (I shoot from a rest).Is there a hairline crack in the stock from when you bought it? Some peoplehave reallyloading up their Lead Sleds - it is possible the person knew they cracked the stock and traded it in. It could also be a gun that needs to have handloaded rounds to be accurate.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

So this is not normal for the gun? The stock seems fine. Has a few scratches but no cracks that I've seen and is super tight. The forearm piece is a little loose but from what I've heard most of the BAR's have this issue. The trigger pull is a little hard but not too bad. I don't think the barrel is bent but not 100% sure on that. Seems unlikely. It's hard to see down the barrel but what I can see looks okay. You can see the rifling fairly well and the crown seems fine if I run a q tip around it. Not sure about the action as I don't know how to check the stuff and when I've called around to gunsmiths in the past none of them seemed like they wanted to look at it or thought they could do anything. Should I keep trying until I find a good one or are 2-3" groups normal for this rifle?

So is the Lead Sled not a good idea or is it okay?

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

Hold on there, before we start running to a gun smith.

Let's go over the basics, before we start spending money.
It's a semi Auto. They are famous for havingdifferent points of impact from the first shot to the second and third etc.

Try this:

Clean the gun with a copper solvent and make sure it is clean. I'm not talking about looking down the barrel (put a flashlight in the open action) and saying "it looks good to me" clean. I mean pushing patch after patch of copper solvent cleaner through it until it comes out as clean as it went in. If it was my gun and I bought it used, I would then push some JB bore paste (Brownell's)through it and make sure it was clean. This will also remove some of the copper catching burrs in the barrel that exist in just about every factoryinstalled gun barrel out there.

Now, when you are sure the gun is clean put up several targets. Load the gun with one bullet only and let the action slide fully forward with all the force from the spring. Make sure the gun is pointed in a safe direction, just in case somehow you get a slam fire. I have never seen this happen with a bar, but ,,,, safety first. This will get as close as possible to the same position the bolt will be in as when the gun cycles for a second shot.

Now at one of the targets fire this round to the best of your ability. After you see where that shot went, open the bolt and hand cycle it with another round just like you loaded the first round. Fire the second round and see where that one goes. I'm guessing it will be pretty close to the first one.

Now load the gun magazine with as many as it will take. Cycle the bolt hard by hand like you did the last 2 times and fire at the first target again. You should now have a 3 shot group here.

Now, ignore that first target and fire the rest of the rounds at a second target. I will bet that the rest of the rounds will group very well. The reason for this is when the bolt cycles from the bullet firing, it has a tendency to seat the round in the chamber much harder than when you just let the bolt close on a round manually. This will often move the bullet further up in the chamber, closer to the lands, and affect the point of impact.

Try this experiment and see if the different methods of bolt closure to battery don't affect the point of impact.

Once you have that figured out, what you need to do is see which ammo will work best in that gun. Make sure that you clean the gun thoroughly when ever you switch brands of ammo and even bullet weights. Remember, when you clean the gun it will now be cooled down again and will shoot to a different POI than a warm gun. Also most guns typically throw a flyer to a different POI on the first shot after cleaning. I usually firea fouling shot after cleaning.

It's a 30-06, so a 165 grain bullet has the best BC and sectional density, and theoretically should fly the best. I don't know what the twist is in your gun, so it may actually like 180's better.

Also understand that not many people break a gun in the proper way, which is of utmost importance, even with a fine gun like the BAR. When breaking a gun in, you should at least run a patch and a bronze brush after each round for the first ten rounds. Then do same after each3 round volley, letting the gun cool between rounds. After 20 rounds this way, Clean again thoroughly and then do a thorough cleaning with the JB Bore paste. I think you will be surprised at the accuracy that can be attained from off the shelf guns, that are often shot 20 or 30 times by the first owner, and get copper fouled and are difficult to clean and people give up on them, and they end up on the second hand shelf, where I do most of my shopping!

Any rough spot along that barrel on one side or another, will collect copper and powder fouling in the burrs along the lands. This copper will build up enough to prevent the bullet from obturating and sealing the gas behind it. This can squeeeze the bullet out of shape, and you really don't want that as the bullet's concentricity is what allows it to push through the atmosphere and fly straight. The tiniest bit of out of round can put that bullet 3" off at 100 yards, let alone several hundred yards.

It sounds like a lot of work, and it is. But once you break in a barrel correctly it will clean easier and you will get more accurate rounds between cleanings, saving you time in the long run.

Have fun.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

Try working up a good load and check the crown.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

I got flamed once before for saying this. But I will say it again. I like the Browning BAR, but I have never known the rifle to be an accurate rifle. I have owned 4 or 5 of them. Most grouped around 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 inches at 100 yards. Especially with a 5 shot group. Most 3 shot groups were not much better.I have shot some reloads in them also, but the groups did not improve that much. I have also been around a bunch of them, and they all had about the same accuracy.

Functioning on the ones I had were great. No functioning problems at all. This is a great hunting rifle. And even with groups like this, a 300 yard shot is no problem. Tom.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

When you say "vise", I am assuming you mean a shooting rest of some sort. IF you are actually shooting from some sort of vise, that could be the source of the problems. NO rifle will shoot well from a hard surface or vise. Use a cushion between your rifle and the rest.

You have to clean these things from the muzzle, so rifling can get worn at that point. This is bad for accuracy.

The BAR I had (.308) would put two shots right together, then they'd walk off vertically. It was a Grade IV, so was nicely engraved. Too bad it wouldn't shoot. Got rid of it.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

As for cleaning it I've been using Wipe Out and cleaning until it gets clean. I've tried other things but this is what I've found to get the most out as well as a local gunsmith recommended saying he liked the best. I have never used the JB Bore paste though. Do you know where the best place to find this is as I'm not sure if I've ever seen it. It usually takes a while and several hours to get it clean but I can get it to where the patches are coming out clean. I can also look down the barrel and it looks clean but that's hard to see. The patches coming out clean are what tell me it's clean. I then run a patch through with gun oil on there before I put it up to store. I usually fire a fowler shot also before I start shooting however, in my testing I've noticed that the first shot is usually very close to where the rest are.

When testing I almost always load one at a time in there and let the bolt go forward. This is how I've almost always done it. Very seldom do I load the magazine up and just keep shooting unless I'm hunting. Although, I have done it a time or two. Usually I put one in and pull the bolt back and slightly open the magazine door and let the bolt go. You have to either reach inside and push the piece on the magazine down or open the door slightly for it to go forward. I usually do this each shot. Maybe I should try doing 2 like this then loading the magazine like you said and see what it does. This thing is draining my pocket as ammo is not cheap at $30 a box so I've been trying to shoot it as little as possible since like I said I've shot up probably $3-500 of ammo this year alone. Well, 08 so last year I guess now.

As for the shells I'm shooting I'm using 150 grain Fusions. I was originally using 165 Grain Winchester Soft Points but they were always sold out at our local Wal-Mart so I switched to 150 grain and I had some old Fusions in 150 so I tried them and it's what grouped the best. I've tried the Core Lokts though in 165 grain and I got horrible groups from them. Should I try a 180 grain bullet out? I just hate to adjust my scope for a 180 grain bullet then it not be much better and have to re adjust it for a 150 or 165 grain.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

The vise I've had clamps to the side. However, I've also tried shooting off other stuff and it doesn't seem to do much better. The only time I've gotten it to group well was a thing I call a vise but I'm not sure if that's the proper term. Anyway, a buddy had it and you put the butt of the stock in it and it fit snugly around it. Kind of like the Caldwell Lead Sled's do. Then on the front it had a Y that the forearm piece rested in. I got great groups at 50 yards. Shot 6 shots and they all were touching. However, I can get decent groups at 50 yards in my vise thing I have. For some reason once I move out to 100 yards that's where the problem starts.

I will post a picture of what I have and am shooting from in a minute. It's kind of crappy but it holds it a lot stiller than I would be able to free hand. Even in sandbags I can't hold it but soo still. Less than like this. At least from the ones I've shot from.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

That's what I have now that I'm using.

I'm debating buying a Caldwell Lead Sled or some sandbags. What do you guys think is the better option?

One thing that makes me think it's more the rifle than me or the rest is I put my muzzle loader in the same vise thing and I shot 3 shots at 100 yards. One was dead center in the bullseye. One was on the right side of it but touching the bullseye and the first hole and the other was on the left side touching the bullseye and the left hole.
It just seems odd to me I can take my muzzle loader and make great imo groups yet I can't do it with this rifle.


Also another question. Do you guys know how you can tell which grade BAR you have?

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

Here is a target I shot at 100 yards with my muzzle loader with 100 grains of powder and a 295 grain Powerbelt Hollow Point. The one to the left is where it shot. I adjusted the scope and shot the center 3. If it can do this why can't my 30-06?
Anyway, I did shoot a group of 3 with the Fusions that were all inside that line you see around the bullseye. Not the bullseye but the line an inch away from it. The one all three of these shots are in. However, not one of the bullets hit the bullseye but all 3 were inside there. Actually I fired a few more later which were also inside of there. However, with most of the others it's all over this sized target.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

Just get some good old fashioned sandbags and fill with either sand or fine lead shot. That "sight vise" is JUNK. Not only is it entirely too light, but they are wobbly and cause the P O I to be slightly off too.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

I'd check to make sure the screws are tight for your bases and rings on the scope first thing. I sighted in a Browning BAR for a neighbor a few years ago in 25-06 and the best 3 shot group I could get out of that rifle (brand new rifle) was about 1.5". The trigger pull was my biggest issue. All of my centerfires have trigger work done to them, and going from a 2.5-3lb trigger that breaks like glass to a stock BAR trigger was tough.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

HTM, You don't have to adjustthe scopeat all. Just fire the gun for groups. If its 3" low and 4" to the right, that won't matter. Just concentrate on the measured group size.

Have you considrered buying ammo from one of the catalog internet shops? They are much cheaper than the brick and mortars. If you feel bad, approach them and tell them what you can get it for. Just make sure you include the shipping per box in your estimate as to what internet sale costs you over what the gun shop sells it to you for. Ask them if you can get a multi box discount. If they won't do it just go to the internet store. I like doing business local if I can but I have to do what's best for me also. I can't justify paying 50-100% more for ammo to keep the guy down the street in business.

The J-B bore paste is available at Brownells. Your local store can get it if you ask him to. http://natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=AG0 83065002&prodTitle=J%26B%20BORE%20CLEANING%20C OMPOUND

Here's your fusion ammo at NAtchez 22.34 a box. Buy several and save. It dilutes the shipping per box. http://natchezss.com/Ammo.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=FAF300 6FS3&prodTitle=30%2006%20SPRING%20180%20GR%20F USION%2020%2FBX

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

I've checked online for ammo prices several times before but I've always found it not to be really worth it. The reason I say that is while Natchez has the Fusion ammo for $22.34 a box it's always out of stock. The gun shop I used to deal with also used to have it for $22.99. However, I bought up what they had and when they went to order it it was back ordered from their distributor. They finally got some in but it's now $29.99 a box. He sold me the box I bought for $29 as most of the guys there will usually knock a dollar or two off of stuff for me. This is a large increase from the $22.99 they were before and I've only bought one box at this price. Another place had/has them for $26.99. I'm not sure that they still have any and if they do not sure that they will be that price for long. I also snagged two old boxes for $17.99 that were leftover at one place. I've currently got 2 boxes but as many of you know that doesn't last that long.
Cheaper than Dirt is $30.something on that ammo too. Natchez is the only one I've found that cheap and everytime I've checked it's been out of stock. Then you have to pay a crazy shipping charge on it so it makes it end up costing more. You have to order several boxes usually just to save anything. So when it was about the same price it was way cheaper to just get it from the gun shop. Not sure what I will do now.

On all other ammo I've gotten I've checked online and usually get it for right around that price and don't have to pay shipping or if it's something Wal-Mart sells I almost always get it cheaper than the online prices and still don't have shipping.

That's the only reason I haven't been ordering it online. Shipping tends to make it higher unless you order a ton.

Ammo prices at least in this area have gone up like crazy lately.

Do you guys think the Federal Soft Points would shoot as well as the Fusions? Is it worth trying them? They are a fair amount cheaper.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

The screw on the rings and bases are tight though. I've checked that.The trigger is a little harder pull than I'd really like but honestly it doesn't bother me too much I don't think. Having to pull it though I think may make me pull the rifle a little but I've gotten pretty used to it so that doesn't seem to be an issue too much anymore.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

Have you ever tried any of the cheap Remington Core Lokts out of it? My dad has an old Winchester Model 100 in 308, and it prefers the cheapest ammo you can feed it. He tried playing with all the "premium" ammo before his last elk hunt, and end up shooting the cheapest ammo he could buy (at the time about 8.99 a box).

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

Yup they don't group well at all.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

BAR's are known for great accuracy from what I hear, once I figured out what mine likes, .270win 130gr, holes touch....shoots sub moa

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

Your scope may have a paralax problem at ranges geater than 50 yrds. Does your scope have an adjustable paralax or is it fixed? Clamp your rifle in the vise and look through the scope at a 100 yrd target. Now move your head back and forth (up, down,left, right)slightley. If the crosshairs move off the bull signifacantly, this could be your problem. ;)

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

Had one in .270 did not shoot worth a darn.Found out the stock was loose.tightened it up ,gun shot 1" to 1 1/2" @ 100 yards.Tolorable for me with a BAR.Might check out the stock .

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

The stock feels tight. The forearm is the only thing that is a little loose and you can't tighten it down anymore. I've read that most BARs have this issue with the forearm not being supper tight. I can't see how it would really affect where it shoots though.

The stock part feels tight. Did yours feel loose or did you do something else to check it? How do you tighten it up? After you remove the butt plate are their screws in there?

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

Stock felt loose ,There should be a nut in the stock look with flashlight to determine size of socket use extension check tightness.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

Oh ok my stock feels tight. It doesn't seem to move at all. I've had several people tell me this is about the best groups they have seen out of a BAR as well as others tell me theirs shoots much better so I don't know what to think anymore.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

My BAR in 30-06 is fairly picky with ammo. I got around 2 inch groups shooting 180 fusions. Using cheap winchester power points I was getting less then 1" groups. I found the best rounds by far were the Hornady SST in all weights. Try these out.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

I've had another person tell me he loves these in his 30-06 so to try them. Are they the red tipped ones? I may have to try them out. What grain 30-06 shells are you shooting with the Winchesters?

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

Yep the ones with the read tips. SST INterlock. I was shooting the 150's in the winchesters.
Gonna give some 180gr Winchester Accubond CT's this weekend and see how they shoot

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

Mine will shoot 1" groups at 100yds with Rem. factory ammo. BAR triggers suck, though. After shooting my bolt action with the 3lb trigger, the BAR feels horrendous.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

I used to have a BAR Safari in 30-06 that would shoot sub moa day in and day out with my handloads; however, this was only AFTER I had a good gunsmith do a trigger job on it. With the trigger job it went from a 1 1/4"-1 1/2" shooter to a 3/4"- 1" shooter. Also, I waited a minimum timed 3 minutes between shots.

Get that trigger worked on and you should difinitely see a tightning of your groups. A good trigger job doesn't coust that much to have done and IMHO is well worth the investment.

firstshot
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Make your first shot count.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

I shot a few Fusions and some Federal Soft Points today and took pictures of the groups I'm getting. I will post them up in a few minutes.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

Ok here are the pictures. I said. I got slightly better groups with the Fusions but not great by any means with any of them.

These are all at 100 yards and I borrowed some homemade sand bags from a buddy. They worked pretty well. I liked them more than I thought they would. I now think I want a set of sandbags. Each line on the target is a inch away from the next one.

I was shooting 2-3 in a row then letting the barrel cool.

These are the first two shots with the Remington blue box ones.


I was impressed however, it went down hill from here. These were the first two shots off of a clean barrel.



Somehow I then managed these two right around 3" apart.


Now not too happy.

Now I picked a smaller target since it has one in each corner. Here is where I shot at it.


As you can see two were slightly lower and 2 slightly higher. Not groups as tight as I'd like but then again I'm starting to think this is about all this gun can do.


Now onto the Fusions in 150 grain.

At first. I think these were the first two.


Not too bad. So I then shot two more at this same bullseye.

Here is the next picture showing all 4 shots with the Fusions.


As you can see I'm getting slightly better groups with the Fusion but still not great groups.

Are these on par for this thing or absolutely horrible? I'm starting to not be as bothered by it as honestly with those groups is I miss a deer it's my fault. I don't think I could headshot a squirrel but honestly I didn't buy it to shoot squirrels so I'm starting to think that it does fine for what I bought it for. As lets face it with either of these rounds if I miss a deer It's my fault. Honestly I could probably even comfortably shoot one in the head and hit it but I still don't think I'd take that chance. I guess I just want holes touching on each shot but I may have to give up that. Other than it not shooting as tight of groups as I'd like I really like the gun. I'm also a little worried if it does this at 100 yards what's it going to do at 300 or so?

Do you guys think I should be etiher sending it into Browning or have a gunsmith look at it and check it over is are these groups fine? It may slightly be me but at the same time it's not fully and I'm not sure that much of it is as I could hold it pretty still with the sandbags. Still enough I could shoot branches off a tree with my .22 that are about half an inch max in round. So I know it's not fully me but it might be me pulling slightly. I've had someone else shoot it in the past and they had similar groups too. What do you guys think now that you can see what the groups look like?

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

I would try some 165 grain rounds as well as corelockts. I have a 308 shortrac that will shoot sub MOA with Hornady 165 BTSP's. IT shoots about 1.5" groups with Remington 150 Grain Corelokts. Also, let somebody else shoot it and see how it performs. I wouldn't send it in yet.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

I have some Core Lockts in 165 grain I've tried and they don't do well at all. I had bad experiences with Remington shells so I don't particularly like them and the gun didn't seem to like the 165 grain ones I tried at all.

I used to shoot 165 grain Winchester Soft Points but they got to be hard to find around here as they were always sold out. I never actually shot them trying to get a group though. Just got the scope close and hunted with it. I don't know how they grouped. I tried some 150 grain Winchester later and they did okay but not that great.

I shot the 150 grain Winchester Silvertips. Not the ballistics but the regular silvertips and it shot a hole at 50 yards like I said where it was just one big hole about 1" after 6 shots. I couldn't figure out how I was missing so I walked up there and it was a big hole and you could count where six bullets went through it. This was in a buddy's vise type thing like a lead sled. Not exactly but similar. It was also at 50 yards. He doesn't have a 100 yard target anymore as the wind blew the stand for the target down and it's also at an akward position so you couldn't use the vise if that's the word anyway.

I can't get these to group well at 100 yards shooting at our house. I had a buddy shoot it too. This was trying to use 150 grain Winchester Ballistic Silvertips and he had the same problem I did with them going everywhere. He put one dead center in the bulleye. Then one right there with it then 2 about 3-4" off. Well, I put one way off and he thought it was me so he shot and his was way off on up there with mine. That's when we thought the scope was bad. I think it may have been. So we changed that and got it to work better but still couldn't get decent groups. So that's when I tried several kinds of ammo. 150 grain Winchester Power Points, 165 Grain Remington Core Lockts, 150 grain Winchester Silvertips, 150 Grain Winchester Ballistic tips, 150 grain Federal Fusions, and now these 150 grain Federal soft points are what I've tried. I can't seem to find Hornady ammo anywhere anymore. 30-06 ammo in general is hard to find around here now.

My buddy was only there when using Winchester Ballistic Silvertips but he said he was wondering if something wasn't wrong with the gun. He is a better shot than me. Another buddy shot it and got groups about like I am with the Fusions whom is a excellent shot however, I'm not sure if he tried to get perfect groups or was just trying to get the scope set close for me. He told me it shot fine and close enough to kill deer so to just shoot it. His groups might have been just a tad bit smaller but still were not super tight.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

You might be squezing the forearm. Not good if you won't the best accuracy.

My 1973 Bar in 30-06 really likes the 165gr Sierra load from Federal.

RE: What are resonable groups to expect from a Browning BAR?
 

Nope not squeezing the foram as I don't hold it tight like that. Well, most of the time I don't I've tried both.

I haven't tried the Sierra Game Kings. Is that what you are referring to? I've never seen them in a store so just never gotten them to try. Infact I'm not even really sure what the box looks like. I have heard great things about them though.