Fusion Ammo
 

Anyone else use this and not like how it performs on deer? I have been using them in 150 grain in my Browning BAR 30-06. Now for some reason this gun is very picky about the ammo. Not that it jams but that I couldn't get good groups at all out of it. As in a 8" target and they were all over the target however, with these I can get a 1-2" group at 100 yards and that's probably that big from me moving ever so slightly. It's a lot better than the rest of the ones I tried.

Anyway, I stuck with them and have only shot one deer with it. I shot a large doe yesterday at around 150 yards. Well, large for a doe. I hit it right around the front shoulder area and the bullet just went on in and didn't do that much damage. Just left a small hole through. Everyone there was saying how bad that looked. Now when I shot the doe just flopped over and died pretty quickly however, I'm not sure it would have done that with a bigger deer as it didn't do a lot of damage just left a hole through it. A buddy shot a deer with a .270 with Winchester Soft Points the same day and when we skinned it where the bullet had hit it had just destroyed that part of the deer. Mine didn't do that.

Anyone else have this kind of luck with them? Should I switch to something else? They all said I need to try new bullets as it didn't do much damage at all to it just left a hole through it.
What kind of bullet should I try next?

RE: Fusion Ammo
 

I always had GREAT sucess with Nosler Partitions

RE: Fusion Ammo
 

Are those the particular bullet or the type? Isn't the Winchester Ballistic tips use a Nolser partition or something? I know I tried those and the rifle will not shoot them in the same spot at all. It shoots horribly with them but I don't know why.

RE: Fusion Ammo
 

I use Federal brand shells heres there website www.federalpremium.com

RE: Fusion Ammo
 

Then I would say that it did exactly what it was supposed to do... It gave you Dead-Right-There performance without destroying a lot of useable meat. What more do you want?

The reason that your friend's .270 with conventional soft points did so much more damage is because a soft point, like the Winchester Power Point, is a non-bonded bullet designed for rapid expansion, and conventional SP's also tend to shed a lot of weight creating fragments that do a lot more widespread, and often undesired and unnecessary, damage. The Fusion bullet is a bonded core bullet that expands well but tends to stay together and retain weight. This allows the bullet to still create a deadly wound channel while greatly improving penetration. The reason the exit wasn't huge is because while the bullet had expanded it had also transferred most of its energy before exiting, and if it didn't hit bone on the way out, the very durable and flexible hide is able to resist the hydrostatic shock effects that turn organs into pudding.

The Fusion ammo was going to be my first choice this year with my .30-06, but I wasn't seeing the level of accuracy with them that I wanted, so I went with Remington Cor-Lokt 150 grain bullets. My results were similar to your friends, bang-flop with a lot of damage to meat because the bullet obviously blew apart after hitting 3 ribs going in. No exit, but I found no substancial part of the bullet, suggesting that there wasn't much left, but the chest cavity was filled with tiny lead and copper fragments. Next year I'm going with a more durably constructed bullet that won't produce so many fragments so I don't have to worry so much about missing one when I butcher the deer. I think I'm going to see how the Barnes TSX's shoot through my rifle. My kids LOVE venison, but I don't want them biting down or ingesting a missed chunk of lead.

Mike

RE: Fusion Ammo
 

I have used 140 gr. Fusion in my 7mm-08 last year with very good results on a large buck and used 150 gr. Fusion in my 270 WSM this year with excellent results in accuracy and performance on two does I shot this year. I can’t complain when I was able to obtain 2” groups at 200 yards...

RE: Fusion Ammo
 

I agree with driftrider - great post! You can't ask for better results than whatyou experienced. Sounds like this bullet may offer good to very good performance.

I also shoot a 30-06 for deer. The reason you did not have that much damage to the meat is because the bullet did not expandviolently in the outer muscles, and it held together. Remember that arrows kill by bleeding and hi-power firearms kill by shock if it is a good shot with a good bullet. It appears the violent shock wave did notoccur until it was in the vitals - this is exactly what you want to happen. The best bullets will have two shock waves. The first is a small shock wave when the bullet first hits the animal, and the secondstarts after the bullet has expanded if it is not a hard cast or FMJ.Cast bulletsdesigned for biggame do not expand much (if it all), but notice how they have a flat nose/tip.The second shock wave onhard cast bulletsoccurs because of the amount of body fluids being pushed by the flat nosed bullet and the deep penetration. Bullet performance is a science. This is why bullet and caliber selectionare so critical to what animalyou are hunting(don't use a deer load on a moose and vice versa). Have youever watched slow motionvideo of a bullet going through ballistic gelatin? If not, do a search on the web and watch what happens.

RE: Fusion Ammo
 

Another vote for driftrider's response. I'm not sure what more you're expecting(or realistically SHOULD expect)if the deer died as you describe?

RE: Fusion Ammo
 

It did die right then and there and I was happy with it however, after them all saying how it didn't do much damage and that I should switch bullets. They all are very good shots and seem to do very well hunting btw so that's why I listened to them. I was afraid on a big buck that it wouldn't just drop it like it did with the doe. The doe isn't going to take near as much to kill as a large buck would so I was afraid that it wouldn't have done that to a buck. Is it a good deer bullet to use? So basically I don't need one that is going to expand and do a ton of damage?

RE: Fusion Ammo
 

Exactly how much damage do you think you need to do? Dead is dead.

A big buck still isn't that much bigger dimensionally than a 100lb doe, and if your Fusion bullet went all the way through a doe, it'll surely get through the vitals of a buck, no matter how big it is. And if the shot is good, it won't go far. Just remember also that not every shot will drop a deer in its tracks, even if you hit it in the same spot in the vitals. I've had deer drop DRT from what I'd consider a marginal hit to the boiler room (a little higher and farther back than I like, but still a double-lung), and I've had a deer run 100 yards with a gaping hole in its heart from a 250 grain Dead Center muzzleloader bullet from 30 yards. So expecting every deer you shoot to drop at the shot and die might be a little unrealistic, unless you want to take nothing but head or neck shots (which I don't advise). Rest assured, if you put that Fusion bullet in the deer's boiler room, it's going to die pretty quick, no matter how big it is. And with a pass-through, if it does run out of sight, you're much more likely to have a good blood trail to follow because exit wounds tend to bleed more than entrance wounds in my experience.

Mike

RE: Fusion Ammo
 

It did die right then and there and I was happy with it however, after them all saying how it didn't do much damage and that I should switch bullets. They all are very good shots and seem to do very well hunting btw so that's why I listened to them. I was afraid on a big buck that it wouldn't just drop it like it did with the doe. The doe isn't going to take near as much to kill as a large buck would so I was afraid that it wouldn't have done that to a buck. Is it a good deer bullet to use? So basically I don't need one that is going to expand and do a ton of damage?
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HTM,

For deer, I want an expandingbullet, but I want it to expand just when it enters the vitals. When I was talking about flat nosed, hard cast bullets for large game I was referring to large game animials in Africa. This is why the game rifles there are large in diameter with lots of powder driving the hard cast, flat nosed bullet.

I commend you for asking the bullet question on this forum. You have learned the lesson that just because someone is a good shot (they could also just been lucky)does not mean they understand bullet performance and/or ballistics. Sometimes the ones who talk the most are the ones we should listen to the least, if at all. You errored on the side of caution, and I can't argue with that. I have not studied the Fusion bullet (I have looked at them in the stores) nor have I shot this bullet. This may be a very good bullet.

You mentiond that your rifle has become picky on ammo. Check to make sure that all the bolts and screws are tight on the action, barrel, barrel/action to stock, bases,rings, etc. DoNOT over-tighten! Also clean the bore ofyour rifle if it has not been cleaned. Be careful when doing this so you do not damage the rifling and crown. Afirearm should be cleaned regularly.

RE: Fusion Ammo
 

I have been shooting 165 grain Fusions in my 3006 and every deer I have shot in the front shoulder area has dropped right there with small holes in and out. I've had only one deer run after being hit and that was my fault because I hit her lower leg instead of up in the shoulder. Based on my 2 years hunting with this bullet and 40 years hunting altogether I'm really impressed with Fusions and will keep using them. By the way my bucks dropped just as fast as the does. Bang,flop, What more could you ask of a bullet.

RE: Fusion Ammo
 

I use 165gr Fusion in my .308. I really like them, they are consistantly very accurate. They shoot identical to the cheap federal 150gr in my gun so i use the cheapo's for practice and the Fusion for hunting. I killed two doe that left pretty nice exit wounds and both of them dropped instantly.

RE: Fusion Ammo
 

I have used Fusions since they came out a few years ago with reliable, excellent results. I have never failed to get a complete pass through with nice internal expansion and damage with broadside and quartering shots from a 30.06. Similar results with a .270 and .243 loads. Great bullet at a reasonable price in my opinion.

One doesn't need super-premium bullets when shooting standard, non-magnum" calibers tocleanly take whitetails. I amsure there are many on this forum that have killed far more deer than me, so Idon't consider myselfan expert on this subject. Of the 40-50 deer I've taken in the past 15 -20 years I can tell you that I can only remember one buck in which the bullet didn't exit, and that was because it hit the spine and blew-up (a Hornaday 180gr spire-point bullet in the light magnum loads they offered in 30.06). That deer was DRT, so I didn't care that the bullet blew up - it did the job.

RE: Fusion Ammo
 

I had similiar results as you have described. My ruger m77 in 30.06 groups fusion ammo better than anything I have tried. I was using winchester ballistic silvertips before this and when I switched to fusion I was concerned about the small exit wounds. The ballistic silvertips made everything look like it had been hit by a grenade. The fusions did not do that. However, every deer that I have hit well with the fusions died on the spot. Great bullet, very accurate out of my guns and doesn't destroy as much meat. Just don't expect the exit wound to look like a crater. The end result has always been good with fusions for me.

RE: Fusion Ammo
 

I had great sucess with them up untill this year. For one I couldnt hit crap with them, and second of all they changed their poweder this last year. Found it very hard to clean the gun. I found out from a Gun Shop owner thatFederalchanged the powder, they went to a cheaper powder. Nedless to say i will have a half of box collecting dust.

I just joined this forum and just found this thread.

I'm glad I'm not alone in noticing this. I have had similar experiences with Fusion 130 gr in 270 Win.

I have taken about 50 deer in the past 25 years with the same 270rifle I got for college graduation... I use either 130 or 140 gr bullets and the deer usually are dead right there(DRT). I have used any one of the big three makers with great success. But I digress....

Over the past maybe three years, I have noticed the Fusions do not leave much of an exit wound at any range and the deer go A LOT further after the shot.

When the fusions first came out they performed real well. Over the last 2 years something changed with them. Not sure what though. I read that they changed the powder type. They didnt seem as accurate as they once were and cleaning the fouling was nearly impossible after they changed the powder. I shoot 165gr. We tried nearly every cleaning solvent imaginable to clean my 308 and nothing was working. I then tried bore butter and that was the only thing that removed the deposits. I will not be using fusions again. Looks like the Federal Premium Sierra Game Kings are back now in 165gr.

Proving once again that shot placement is everything.

This is an awesome bullet, best that I've ever used. I suspect that the Fusion bullets act differently because they start with a lead slug and plate a thick layer of copper on it. I bet that the lead is harder than with copper jacketed bullets.

I have never had any trouble with their accuracy. I can't say I ever noticed any real difference in the barrel fouling either.

I am just not sold on their terminal performance based on what I admit is anecdotal experience......

This year I have already decided to use Hornady's SST 140gr.