Long Range advice??
 

Like Bocajnala, I am looking to extend my effective range and hoped I could get some advice form the accomplished shooters on here. Right now I'm shooting a Winchester Model 70 .270 with a Simmons 3-9x40 scope and a 150 grain Winchester cartridge. I guess I'm wandering whereto start (other than to keep practicing) ir order to achieve that goal. Would improving my setup as far as upgrading the scope, reloading, etc be the place to start?. I would love to eventually be able to get to that 500 yard range. Right now I'd be comfortable to about 300 yards.

Thanks in advance for any advice you guys can give!
-SDarcher

RE: Long Range advice??
 

Start shooting and start changing things as needed. With any setup, you should be alble to get 15" groups at 500 yards. From there, start playing around with different ammo. if you are reloader, pick a bullet with a better BC. If your gun is not that accurate, have it accurized. Pillar bedding, glass bedding. Scope leaves alot to be desired. But if its not moving or causing you accuracy problems, leave it, or buy a new one.

RE: Long Range advice??
 

Number one thing is you have to take alot of things into account shooting long range. Altitude, cross winds, hold over, ect...

With my 270 I have it sighted in at 2" High at 100...You basically just square up on the animal and pull the trigger out to almost300yrds which is an oddity of a shot in the woods here in western PA. I have shot a few Doe out to almost 200 across a field, but 300yrds is a hell of a longshot.

1st thing to do probaly would be to banish that simmons scope from your gun and get yourself a quality set of optics if you want to shoot 500yrds.

Practice...just a thought...Ive never shot 500yrds nor wanted to. We had a 19 year old kid here take a shot at a deer here about a week ago he missed and it hit another hunter in the head killing him.....not a very smart idea no deer alive is worth another human beings life. IF YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE TAKING THE SHOT WITH THE CONFIDENCE TO PROVIDE A FAST CLEAN KILL TO THE ANIMAL YOU ARE HUNTING....DO NOT SHOOT!

RE: Long Range advice??
 

What????

We are talking about long range shooting here. Your talking about hitting another person??? Goodness gracious, what has this page turned into.

RE: Long Range advice??
 

The first thing you need to look at is a rangefinder. No gun of any cartridge will do you much good at 500 yards unless you have a rangefinder that can reliably range an animal or at least something you can depend on being near the animal (like a tree). The human eye is only reliable to +/- 150 yds or so at 500 yds, USELESS and you're slinging guesses without a rangefinder.

The second thing you need is better optics. You cannot reliable "hold over" for drops that far out. You need 1) a tactical-style scope with external adjustments, 2) A mil-dot scope, or 3) a BDC reticle, I recommend them in that order. I shoot a Nikon Tactical 4-16X 50mm scope on my 300WM. This fall I got the trip of a lifetime (so far!) to Montana for elk and muley and took my bull from 683 yards as I was not going to get another chance to get one closer.

The third thing will depend on what you hunt. Deer? A 270 might still be a 500 yard gun, I'd have to check the ballistics. I'd recommend a little more gun that far out and certainly if you intend anything bigger than deer.

The fourth thing is practice, and lots of it, which suggests the fifth thing, which is reloading equipment. I could not afford to shoot the quality ammo I shoot if I did not reload it for under $1/shell. Once you have a rangefinder, the biggest problem shooting long range is wind and while the computer will calculate rough drift values for you only a lot of experience shooting far and possible a wind meter can help you judge conditions and adjust your drift compensation.

Shooting long range is a complex process, and expensive to do it right, especially if you consider what I did:
Before hunt:
1) Put together long range rig - Remington Sendero, Nikon Tactical scope, Scope Level, Burris Signature rings with inserts to add addtional upward travel into the scope.
2) Learned to reload and got all the equipment
3) Carefully developed the fastest accurate load with 200gr Accubond in my rifle - 2945 fps
4) Gained 200+ rounds of experience at 100-400 yds
5) Two range sessions to 860 yards to verify drop chart, wind drift estimates,and group size (6inches)
6) Additional range time with .22 and muzzleloader at long ranges to practice wind drift compensation
7) Bought Bushnell 1500ARC rangefinder

During the shot:
1) Called in elk until he hung up and offered no stalk opportunity without being winded.
2) Several range readings to be confident in range - 683 yards
3) Set up gun and leveled Harris bipod legs
4) Adjusted magnification and side focus to eliminate parralax error
5) Consulted drop chart, dialed in appropriate drop
6) Estimated wind through valley in front of me, consulted chart to dial in wind
7) Got all set, verified spotter was ready to call my hits
8) Verified gun was level with scope level, tightened in and fired first shot
9) Spotter called he couldn't see it, animal did not react (he was well hit)
10) Repeated firing sequence, fired again. Spotter couldn't see it, animal didn't react (well hit again withing 6inches of first hit)
11) Double-checked all calculations
12) Fired third shot; spotter called he heard the hit, animal turned 180 degrees at the shot
13) Fired fourth shot; spotter called miss right at his nose. Realized wind drift was a little more than estimated (first shots had just missed lungs through liver), so pulled the crosshairs further over and fired fifth shot. Heard shot impact (boilerroom shot perfect), animal reacted slightly, walked behind tree where he soon collapsed.
14) Waited an hour before approaching animal as you can't see what happens that well from that far away!!

Long range rifle hunting is a complex game and a lot more than just getting a gun and scope that will get bullets out there! Study up, read longrangehunting.com.

RE: Long Range advice??
 

JUST CURIOUS . . . WHY OUT TO 500(+) YARDS?
You can dump a pot load of money into your gun to make it "match grade". Don't need to . . . but you can.
I could go down a list of suggestions but let me stear you to an outfit that "specializes" in long range shooting/hunting.
From a TV show called "Best of the West", http://www.thebestofthewest.net/
There are DVD's of examples of long range shooting, and a "How-to" DVD of how to achieve successful LRS by modifying your gun. Like pillar bedding, floating the barrel, etc. VERY good stuff! Look for their Video Archives for some sample shots. In their Store, there are DVD's called "Beyind Belief". And they are! Seeing still won't be believing! They take an elk at over 800 yards with one shot. They also caution you from trying any of what they teach until you have become very good at the practice range. Ethical shots first!
If you want to shoot long range, these DVD's will help you do-it-yourself.
I don't think you need a $1,000.00 + scope, but it is very advisable to get a better scope than you have. And...........
One that has features you can use like interchangable turrets and higher power.. Example: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...amp;id=0043015

It's a long link, but try to get there. Cut & paste.

RE: Long Range advice??
 

Other than what's been previously stated, the best advice I can give for long range shooting (at and animal) is 'get closer'. Most competent shooters can handle a 300 yd shot with a 270 or similar shooting cartridges with a bit of practice. Beyond that, without extensive shooting under varing conditions you are pressing your luck. Holdover is easy once you know your rifle/load - its wind that can cause havoc to an inexperienced shooter.

RE: Long Range advice??
 

"Get closer" is easy to say but there is a place for long range shooting. One example was the elk hunt I mentioned. Now, the day before I shot that bull we got the same one bugling and stalked for over half an hour, finally getting within 80 yards of him downwind, an exhausting stalk. But I couldn't get a clean shot as he wouldn't exit the dark timber. The next afternoon was my last chance to get a bull, I could not get downwind of him and he was not going to hold there long enough for a stalk before departing over the mountain and disappearing.

It's easy to say "get closer" when you're not the one who dropped $700 on a non-resident take, a couple thousand on other miscellaneous expenses, burned half your vacation for the whole year, and drove 28 hours each way and your only alternative is to eat your tag. So I put in the time and went prepared to make that shot it and only if I had to...and boy I'm glad I did my homework.

A blown stalk is no big deal if you are local. There's always tomorrow. When you will only get 1-2 stalks after all the time/effort/money mentioned above, the proposition changes. I'm not advocating Hail Mary shots, but if you are prepared, practiced and capable of doing it...

RE: Long Range advice??
 

Just come an do some shooting with me one of these days, and I'll get ya all dialed in! :D

RE: Long Range advice??
 

Thanks for all the tips guys, I do plan on putting in a lot of practice before attemptingany longshots. I'm not looking for a quick answer so I can just go out and start shooting long range shots, but am interested in working my way out to those longer ranges, more I guess for the challenge of it and just didn't know where to start. Keep the tips coming guys, and thanks again.

Rammer- we'll be up to your place for New years. we'll deffinately have to go out and do some shooting.

RE: Long Range advice??
 

SDarcher, I have all the loading stuff for your 270 as well. We could always work up a few handloads if you really wanted to try some long range, whizz bangers... Hopefully the darn weather warms up a lil bit.....

RE: Long Range advice??
 

Sounds great Rammer, yeah I would welcome a little nicer weather, especially for this afternoon. I'm going out to sit in the stand again this afternoon hoping to catch that big boy off gaurd, should be nice and chilly!

RE: Long Range advice??
 

I believe for starters, I'd get a better scope, and start loading my own ammo. The Sierra 150-grain PSPBT bullet is a very good long-range .270 projectile, as are the Nosler BT's and Accubonds.

There are still no flies on the .270 Win. as a long-range cartridge, especially when good bullets are handloaded to optimum performance levels. I would try Norma MRP1 powder, as you can get more of it into a case than some of the other slow powders. Anywhere from 57 to maybe even as much as 62 grains of it will give you some very high velocities. But of course start low & stop increasing the powder charge level when you find the most accurate powder charge.

RE: Long Range advice??
 

Unbelievable?
If you can't get closer to game than 500yards?
Change your stalking tactics?
Just my opinion?
Now if your target shooting ONLY, then that is a different story,HOWEVER some think that just because their target rifle with group at 500,600,700, ... They can take game in adverse conditions the same way? NOT!
Get real it ain't going to happen, PERIOD!!!
Your just going to miss or worst yet, wound game animals.
Please reconsider your options?!?

RE: Long Range advice??
 

Spaniel - yes get closer is easy to say. I did not say easy to do. And FYI I have spent over $700 for a non resident elk tag + outfitter fees - several times and have come home empty handed. Its not getting game that matters. Its how you do it. My last hunt took me 5 hours to make a stalk on a 4x4 mulie until I was finally able to locate him, get within my comfort zone and take the shot.The terrain was so rugged that it took 1 1/2 hrs to get to him after I shot him.
Oh yeah - by the way - I was using a 270 win. with 130 Nosler Ballistic Tips.

RE: Long Range advice??
 

what would you shoot @ 500 yards with a .270.not trying to be a wise guy here but isn't that kinda a light load for that distance?

RE: Long Range advice??
 

I do it with a .243...[8D]

RE: Long Range advice??
 

I love it, there's always one know-it-all in one of these long range threads. Someone like Mike here who doesn't know squat about long range shooting, probably has a hard enough time hitting the broad side of a deer at 100 yards so thinks everyone else must play by his rules.

Well guess what...my "comfort zone" is 800 YARDS. Mule deer at 438 yards...ranged him, dropped him. One shot. 15 degree upward angle, 10mph crosswind. Elk at 683 yards. Ranged him, pumped several consecutive rounds into him, all lethal hits individually, and drop him within 10 yards of where he was standing for the first shot.

Yeah. You know your stuff, don't you guy. "It ain't going to happen, PERIOD!!!". "Your just going to miss or worst yet, wound game animals.". The quality of your spelling and grammar fit your opinion too.

RE: Long Range advice??
 

Well, my hunt took 7 hours just to hike in and out not including the shooting and cleaning time. I hiked out with a pack full of elk backstraps and tenderloin through the heaviest concentration of grizzly bears in the lower 48, in the dark, fighting a 40-60 mph wind sandblasting my face. It took me an hour to get from where I shot him to the carcass too. What's your point? Everyone is supposed to conform to your idea of range or "how to do it?" Were you within 20 yards? If you aren't within bow range some would consider you a slob hunter. Of course why shoot a 270 if you are going to get within bow range. Some think real hunters don't use guns, should I apply that standard to you?

You are looking down on a 500 yard shot because you can't reliably do it. Just admit it. Some people should limit themselves to 100 yard shots (some guys I have met that is giving them too much). Some 200 or 300. Some of us who used to shoot competitively and have a long range in the backyard to practice all the time have no problems shooting 500 yards or further. What qualifies you to judge?

Edited to add: The previous day I had that same bull within 80 yards but could not get a shot as he would not leave the dark timber and I could only see his hooves. I would happily have shot him that close, I was not LOOKING for long shots, just PREPARED for them, there is a distinct difference. I stalked hard for over an hour to get in that position. The next day, my last day, when he presented at 683 yards, it was in a non-stalkable situation. I was not going to leave empty-handed because a couple guys on the internet would whine because they aren't comfortable shooting that far. I am, and proved it.

RE: Long Range advice??
 

I never said I couldn't 'do it' as you put it Mr. Spaniel. In fact I have. And if you read my first post in its entirety you would have seen that I said you should get closer and without practice no one should attempt a shot over 300 yds, especially with any wind. That mulie in my previous post was taken with a single shot from my 270 at a ranged 437 yds. I've also taken whitetails and antelope out to 375 yds.
You misinterpreted my post. And to repeat - no one should ever take shots they have not practiced on at game no matter what the cost of the hunt or how big the animal. We have enough pressure from the anti hunting community as it is. And to take a shot where the chance of wounding and not recovering an animal exceeds the chance for a humane kill then the shot should not be taken. But this decision can only be made by the person whose finger is on the trigger.

RE: Long Range advice??
 

Learn how to improve your skills at spotting and stocking closers without detection where you don't put yourself into that position of "long range" shot is the better choice of time well spent for ethical hunters.

RE: Long Range advice??
 

You've never been to the plains in SD, you can see deer for 2 miles in WIDE OPEN territory here.... I shot my rifle deer this year at 516 yards with my 7mm Rem Mag. There is no stalking unless you can sneak on a fully alert deer in FLAT ground with no cover and snow....

Then again, I shoot more at 300+ yards preparing for season than most guys spend sighting in their rifles. I have no objection to shooting past 500 yards, becuase I know when I squeeze off a round its a dead critter at the end of my barrel.

RE: Long Range advice??
 

Rammer, I know exactly what you're talking about. Sometimes you just can't get close. And I will still stick by by guns and say that no one should attempt any shot they are not comfortable with.I too practice at 300 and sometimes 400 yds. Especially on a year when I will be going on a western hunt. The open prarie county can make stalking difficult at times and it seems like the wind is always blowing. And its my opinion that the wind is a much more difficult aspect to overcome than holdover.
For those of you that want a good read on the effects of wind. Check this site out. http://www.6mmbr.com/Winddrift.html

RE: Long Range advice??
 

The kid hunting took a shot at a deer at over 500yrds away...the shot that killed the man was a spotter shot he fired...I think if you are going to be long range hunting you should be doing it on a property with little hunting pressure and no hunters in case you screw up. Your little "experimenting" could lead to this type of situation...

I dont knock long range hunting, i just think like all the other ethical BS that goes on here it has its place and situations.

RE: Long Range advice??
 

Sorry :(
Last time I checked it was a free country to give an opinion on a subject. I quess I was wrong!?
And I didn't slam you personally, just have different hunting ethics than some do?:eek:

RE: Long Range advice??
 

I penned a long post specifically to point out how difficult it is and how much equipment it takes to do it right. Essentially I was agreeing with you that it can be done but it takes a lot of preparation then. If we were more in agreement than disagreement I apologize, it appeared you were jumping on the I-can't-do-it-so-you-shouldn''t-either bandwagon.

RE: Long Range advice??
 

So you're shooting a much smaller animal, which probably reacted to the hit, on totally different terrain, and making the long leap to the conclusion that my spotter is an idiot. My spotter has taken all but one species of Montana big game, including one of the state's largest ever bighorn rams with a bow and is a very respected and accomplished hunter. When an 800lb animal shows absolutely no reaction to several hits and the bullet ground impacts into the mountainside are hidden behind him, there is nothing to see. The first time I actually missed, he picked it up immediately.

RE: Long Range advice??
 

Mr. Minnesota, have you ever hunted out west??

There are some who purposely go out and try to set up 1000 yard shots. I'm not discussing that scenario, but the scenario of finding yourself in a position where you can't get closer and being comfortable at what some would consider long range. You and others are making the unfounded conclusion that those who take a long shot lack the ability to stalk. There is no basis for that. Some situations don't allow for a stalk...like a bull elk up on top of a wide-open mountain where a stalk would be a 2-3 mile circle, 2-3 hour affair and he's not going to stay there that long. That isn't a skill issue.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but just because all you practice is your local 100 yd range and you can't imagine shooting over 300 yards don't get surprised when someone who regularly shoots to 800 yards isn't receptive to you questioning their 500 yard shots, hunting ability, and ethics.

RE: Long Range advice??
 

SPANIEL!
I never said I only shot or practiced at 100yards. I actually shoot at shorter yardages as well with my bow and 22 pistols. Oh that's right I squirrel hunt ONLY with a 22 pistol.
Sorry that is under your 500 yard range as well.[&o][&o]
Sometimes, maybe instead of running your mouth, you might want to take in some knowledge, you don't have?

Just a thought?:eek:[:o]:eek:

Oh by the way that was personal[8D]

RE: Long Range advice??
 

My reason for posting this question wasn't because I couldn't get closer to the animals. I am perfectly capable(sp) of getting within range most of the time. In fact the past few weeks I've gotten within 20 yards of countless does and a few bucks that I passed while archery hunting, closest one was probably 8 yards laying in a fencline and stalked into the wind right up to him, but he took off right from his bed before I could get him to stand.

It's the challenge, that and like Rammer and Bronco have stated, if the situation ever arrose where for some reason you can't get closer (deer's standing out in the the middle of a stubble field or something) I would rather be prepared. I'm just interested in long range shooting, if you're not then what are you doin reading the post other than to start an argument????

Thanks everyone for the advice!

RE: Long Range advice??
 

This is what helped me. First I set my goal to be 1MOA or better. And I set my maximum at500 yards. I have access to a range that has a several stations out to 1000 meters.I got into hand loading. I sent my rifle, a Remingtom 700 in 300 Win. Magnum, off to have it "accurized". This work ended up including squaring up the bolt, trigger job to 2.5#, pillar bedding the action, and recrowning the factory barrel.I discarded the economy scope and went with a top of the line Zeiss. I bought a good range finder. Made me some "Africa" tripod shooting sticks. I got my hands on books about long range shooting, though these were covering distances I never intend to try - 1000 yards out or longer, I figured the info would apply to shorter distances as well!?!

I worked up a great load byspendinghourson the range testing for the best grouping load. My final choice was a 180 gr., Partition that would group at about .5 MOA.

I figured that the "range" and the "field" being sonotthe same conditions that I'd best shoot in as realistic a setting as I could manage. Iwent to a friend's farm where safe shots into hillsides can be taken out to about 400 yards. I made me a few "deer cut outs" and shot from several positions, intentionally chosing cold - hot - windy - drizzling - etc., weather. I did all of this in prep for a mule deer hunt in Eastern Montana. When my buddy and I finally spotted a good buck, it ranged just at 325 yards. That is about 5 times the average shots I get hunting here in SE Alabama. One shot .. it was done.