What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa 1500/Vanguard or Rem 700?
 

WHich one is superior in the following categories?
[ol][*]construction[*]Magazine system[*]FieldMaintenance[*]Extractor[*]Fit and Finish [/ol]

Please explain why don't just type Howa 1500/Vanguardor Remington 700

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

Winchester!

LOL.

Actually I'm very curious to hear some intelligent arguments.

Tom

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

Waiting for them as well and have waited a long time :D

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

I sure Rifle Looney has something 'intelagant' to say! LOL yes, misspellings on porpose!

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

construction - IMO, the Howa with its flat bottom receiver and massive recoil lug. Bolt body hasthree gas vents to redirect gasses away from the shooter should a ammo failure occur. The bolt is made from a single chunk of steel which includes the bolt handle.

Magazine system - Flip a coin, they are almost identical to each other.


Maintenance - General cleaning and maintenance their isn't a hill of beans difference.
EDIT: see below about the bolt disassembly.

Extractor - Definetly the Howa by leaps and bounds. The M16 / AR15 style extractors are about the strongest made for a push feed bolt and IMO is even superior to the famed Sako extractor.

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

Should have categorized it as Field Maintenance not Maintenance .


BigBulls are you still in Colorado?

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

One thing to contend with is most folks these days are form over function. So fit and finish has to be considered as well.

Tom

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

Duly noted

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

Unfortunately no. :([:'(]At least I am on the Gulf where I can fish all year long. [&:]


Now that I am at home and can look at both side by side.

Another plus for the Howa is that the bolt release button is located at theleft rear of the receiver instead of, the dumbest place ever, inside the trigger guard (Remington). Same goes for the floor plate release button. Howas is on the outside of the trigger guard and Remingtons is inside the trigger guard.

You don't need a to pull the cocking piece against a surface and insert a penny to disassemble the Howa bolt like you do the Remington. Simply continue turning the cocking piece clockwise on the Howaand the bolt comes apart for in the field cleaning.

From the out of box production riflesI have seen...... the lesser expensive models of both have poor toOK fit and finish and the more expensive models orbothhavemuch betterfit and finish which is pretty typical of most rifles. I don't think that fitting the person is a cryteria in this type of comparrisonconsidering the virtuallyunlimited body shapes and buildsof the different people out there.


Honestly, why the Howa rifles aren't far more popular than they are is a mystery to me. They pack so many great and worthyfeatures into a rifle for a very modest price tag.

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

I have a friend who has purchased 3 Remmy's in the last two months. I was shocked when I examined them. The fit and finish was awlful (for the most part) and the bolt operation was less than smooth. I'm just not a Remmy fan.

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

I have both. The M700 trigger is far superior to the Howa's.

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

The Howa 1500 and the Vanguard are identical rifles. This past spring I went to buy a Rem 700SPS. Every dealer I spoke with talked me out of it. All said "for the money, the Vanguard is hands down a better rifle". If I wanted a 700 they all said spend the cash for a BDL or a CDL. Even then they suggested other rifles in those price ranges. I bought the Vanguard. It is awesome!

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

Not unless you adjust it is it "superior" if you can do it yourself. Most people take them to gunsmiths(hopefully) and they usually charge for that service. Howa needs the trigger replaced with a Timney and then it is every bit as good as the Remington.

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

The bolts will interchange . But there are other differences.

[ul][*]410 alloy SS vs 416 on the Howa[*]24" barrels on std calibers Vangurard vs 22 on Howa[*]Enclosed Bolt Shroud on the Vanguard[*]3 position on the HOwa vs 2 pos safety on the Vanguard[*]Gas handling system on Vanguard a tad different 3 gas holes drilled to dump into magazine box vseither 1 or2 on the HOwa[/ul]

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

Oldelk,

Please educate me. What does it mean to have an enclosed bolt shroud?

Thanks

Tom

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

The shroud visuallyis the part of the bolt behind the handle.They are designed to shield the shooter from gases that may occur as a result of a cartridge malfunction. All Modern Guns and military rifles of a 100 +year old design have some way of shielding the shooter from these gasses. Some are more effective then others. Theoretically closed end shrouds block gassess more efficiently. In actual practice having had 1case failure with aRemington which has an open end shroud I never noticed one puff of gas even though the gas burned a nice neat 1/16" hole in the bolt face.

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

I have adjusted dozens of M700 triggers over the years and only 2 Howas. Getting a M700 trigger to a crisp 3 lbs (and sometimes less) is simplicity itself. Howas are something else. On my present Howa, a .243, I disassembled the trigger assembly, stoned the punched hole sprues, and polished the sear, which (under magnification) was positively the roughest searI have ever seen (including some old military rifles). No wonder the trigger pull was heavy AND gritty. It is much better now, but still not nearly up to the worst M700 I have done. I agree, that a Timney trigger is probably the best solution, but a Timney is about $100, and it stillmust be installed. I doubt that a gunsmith will charge lessfor installation ofa Timney than to adjust an M700.

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

Helen Keller could have installed aTimney trigger on a Howa. I doin't know what the going rate on a timney is these days my best guess isprobably in the 85-120 range depending on whetherl CM or SS. You didn't factor in the price of a New Remington vs a Vanguard or HOwa.. do that math and tell me which one is cheaper to own with a great trigger on it ? Remington is seriously overcharging on their rifles, I guess they have to do that to keep the shareholders happy..

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

The triggers on the older Howas and Vanguards were definetly very gritty and very heavy. The newer, three position triggers are a major improvement over the old versions and are easily adjusted to 2.5 - 3 pounds.

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

I stand corrected

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

Bigbulls,
I'm glad to hear about the new trigger. The 1500 seems to be an excellently designed and rugged rifle. I was surprised that they kept the old trigger design for so long.

RE: What's the better Pushfeed Rifle Howa or Rem 700?
 

prolly because Howa sounds asian and most gun owners are pro-american. The first timeI heard of Howa I instantly thought "Asian Knock-off of some other better brand". I know that it wasnt right to assume that after looking at it, but thats the first thing that popped into my head after looking at all of the other english-like named brands such as Weatherby, Remington, Winchester, Marlin, Cooper, Springfield, Smith & Wesson, etc. Just a bad assumption on my part, but im sure thatsome others have thought the same thing when gun shopping. Especially considering many people think that any gun, other than the brand their father owned, is junk.