30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

I’ve been looking at few rifles recently. I looked at two Savage Models in 30-06 yesterday. The Savage Model 16 at a local gun store had an accu-trigger, camo’d and scoped for $600. It felt good. Wal-Mart had a Savage Package Series 111FCXP3 30-06 for a good price http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=2684985
Related, BassPro has a Savage Camo Package w/scope for $500. Can’t seem to get a comparison between these three models yet (i.e., groupings, consistency,etc.).

In the process I saw a Remington Model 770 w/scope ($380 Bass Pro & Wal-Mart price). The 770 is a new model as they are trying to capture the mystic of the Model 700 w/ a lower pricing point. ($1000 vs. 380).

I’ve been encouraged to go with 7mm, 270 WSM, 325 WSM. I’ve also been encouraged to explore TC Encore Series. I am leaning towards keeping it simple and sticking with the 30-06.

Have you heard/read anything of interest that can help me with this decision? Savage, Remington, else? Should I wait and save up some more money and not buy the combo package ?

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

You remember when you played baseball and the chant was "You can't hit what you can't see..."

Give me a cheap rifle, that will group 2 inches at 100 yards, and a good scope and I'll still kill a pickup truck full of deer each year...

I've shot centerfires since the 60s, I went through the cheap scopes, see through mounts and all that stuff...

I use Leupolds, I trust Leupolds, a buddy has a couple of Nikon Buckmasters and ProStaffs, they also seem to be holding up well and are decent when it comes to gathering light...I hear the Bushnell 3200 series is decent, but have never looked through one...

Before I bought a package gun with a cheap scope, I'd use iron sights this year and save my money for a scope next year...

If you are shooting deer and live in VA, you don't need more than a 30-06...I'd lean toward a lighter kicker as your deer aren't that big...A .270, 25-06, 7mm-08, .308 or .243 would be a better choice and would handle all you are going to see in the woods up there...

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

Buying a combo with a scope in the long run wouldnt save you any money because you wouldeventually wantto replace the scope on the gun anyways.

If i were you this is what i would do...
1. Get a 30-06 if i were to have caliber and only one i would want a 30-06
2. Savage, tikka,and howa/weatherby vangaurdare relatively low priced rifles. I havethis savage in 30-06 and it shot 1.5in groups out of the box with factory ammo.
3. Lastly get either a leupold scope or zeiss scope. When it comes to optics it never pays off to go cheap. There are always deals online for scopes you just have to look.

Good Luck
Deric

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

I also recommend getting a non package rifle. If you are going to get one gun the 30-06 will do it all.

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

+1. I've never seen a package combo with a decent scope...usually Chinese P.O.S.

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

if your leaning towards a savage 30-06 firstly good choice. and if you want to save some $$ grab a steven's model 200 in 30-06. Not too fancy looking but great accuracy .....saves you some $$$ adn you can put the extra cash towards a better scope....should be around the $300 mark...I paid $349 for my 22-250 stevens 200 here in canada....The 30-06 was the same price...

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

I agree with the above on passing on the combo package. You're paying for that cheap glass and it's true you can't hit what you can't see.

As for the cartriges I'd drop all the wsm stuff and maybe consider adding .308 to your list. Does just about anythign the .30-06 will do with less recoil. Also cheaper to shoot and plink.

Tom

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

06', bullets and different sized loads are everywhere you hunt. My personal favorite os a pump gun. Have killed deer out to 300 yards w/it, cycles a quick second shot of needed, clip fed for ease of loading / unloading. It is accurate and I shoot w. all bolt 700 , Won Mod. 70 , etc. I hunt ground hogs, deer, coyote and bear (balcK) w/ one caliber. Good Luck in your chloices!

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

I bought a Savage package deal a few years agothat was actually cheaper than the non package gun. I immediately removed the scope, rings, and bases and installed what I wanted. I then sold the scope and rings to someone who wanted a cheap scope and rings. I do agree with some of the other poststhough, forget the packagecombo unless you can find a good deal.

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

I agree the "cheap" gun will still kill a truckload of game . Now I have not seen the ad in a couple of years but its got a red ryder BB gun in the picture with a Ziess or some other insane high quality optic mounted to it but it makes a great point.

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

I have to agree. Find the rifle that fits you best. I assume you plan on keeping it for a while so a few bucks more or less isn't the issue. As for the chambering, the '06 will do you just fine as would a bunch of other chamberings. I somehow get the impression from reading your post that you don't shoot that often. If I'm mistaken, I apoligize. You don't need a 7 mag or 325 WSM for deer. Nor the 270WSM (but this one is nice). I would shy away from the 'magnumitis' . It just isn't necessary. In a long action, the '06, 270, 280 will be fine. Should you decide on going with a short action, then the 7-08, 7x57, 257, and 308 would also be fine choices. And if you haven't shot an '06, you may want to start out with the reduced recoil loads until you get the feel of it.

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

another option for a scope if you do not do the package deal or spend more on a scope then you do on your rifle like alot of people are suggesting is Red Head scopes that you can get at Bass Pro. i was talking to one of the guys at the gun counter and he was saying that Bushnell actually makes the scopes for Red Head. plus they are about half the cost and they seem to be of the same quality. its just another option.

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

'Twas interesting that I saw your post, and on the same day I came across this: http://www.chuckhawks.com/1000_hunting_rifle_system.htm

In particular, I noticed this portion: "Likewise, nobody chose a package deal that included a rifle, mount and scope, although most of these rifles are available in such packages. We all have our individual preferences in scopes and mounts and are perfectly willing (actually prefer) to do our own scope mounting and bore sighting."

Naturally, there's an entire threadon this very website regarding the credibility of Mr. Hawks.If nothing else, though,the opinions shown are from guys who've handled far more rifles & scopes than I ever have.

Just some food for thought.

FC

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

Get the .30-06 for your first rifle. It will work for all North American game, particularly in the lower 48 states. As you get older you may wish to accumulate more specialized rifles -- .25-06/.257 Weatherby Magnum for pronghorn hunting, .338 Winchester Magnum for elk, etc. -- but it is always a good idea to have a back-up rifle available if your go-to rifle goes down (scope goes haywire, you drop the go-to rifle out of the case on the concrete at the airport, etc.). The .30-06 is an ideal back-up rifle because . . . it will work for all North American game.

Don't get excited about the scopes that will be mounted on the rifle when you make a combo purchase. They aren't likely to put a high quality scope on the combo, so if you are choosy about your scopes, you WILL replace the scope with something better down the road. Try to figure out what the price difference is between the raw unscoped rifle and the scoped combo. If you pay more than $100 for the inclusion of the scope it probably isn't the way to go. You won't get anything out of reselling a used, cheap scope. It is just going to be money flushed down the toilet. Alternately, you can think of the money saved as a start on paying for the better quality scope.

Most rifles will do what they are supposed to do -- throw a bullet down range with acceptable hunting accuracy. The sighting system -- the scope and scope mounts and scope rings -- may be a very big factor in the useability of your rifle. If you can't sight the rifle on target, you can't make use of the accuracy of your rifle. If you buy a cheap rifle, it may make sense to spend more money on the scope than you spent on the rifle itself. I bought a Remington ADL with synthetic stock in .30-06 for about $280 at a Grand Opening of a Bass Pro shop. I had been looking around for a beater rifle for use in the rain. I realized, after looking around at some pretty dubious candidates (old military mausers from uncertain second countries such as Argentina of uncertain years), that this was probably as good as it was going to get. When I scoped the rifle I put a Leupold VX-III 3.5-10x 40 mm scope on it -- $500 for the scope, mounts, rings, and installation. This would appear to be silly, for such a cheap gun. But I want to use this as a back-up for all my hunting, and if I am using my back-up on an elk hunt and Mr BIG shows up, I don't want to be relying on a cheap scope. A cheap gun will probably still do what it is supposed to do; a cheap scope? Maybe not.

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

Skip the package deal, if you want a savage 16 just get the basic model, they go for about $560 in my area. And I would stay away from that remington model, if you want a remington get a real one (700 model). I would actually get a Howa myself to be honest.

You can get a really good hunting scope in the 200 dollar range, just keep the power low.

Paul

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

Ebay is full of deals on scopes that formerly came on package rifles

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

Thanks, guys - This helps alot.

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

I also agree with skipping on the package deal. The .30-06 is the way to go. You can't go wrong with a Savage or Remington 700. My vote would be to save up and put a Zeiss Conquest on it.

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

"nchawkeye" hit the nail on the head.

I am almost 60 years old. I have been hunting deer since age 14. I started with center fire in 1965 with a Remingtom 660 in 6.5 Rem . Mag. Cost me nearly a whole summer's savings. I am still pi$$ed at Remington for giving up on that cartridge. My replacement was a Winchester Model 88. It to went out of production !!! Might be a trend here ??

If I have learned anything at all it is to spend the $$$ on optics. Admittedly I have become somewhat obsessive about this point. I have good reason. I have had one and only one chance at a truly monster scoring buck. It is impossible to tell but if it was not 180+ I am not bald. And believe me I am an onion head. It was 126 yards. I had a perfect rest. I got 3 clean , steady shots at this buck before he decided enough was enough and bounded off. The scope was a Tasco "World Class". It was the first scope I ever bought ... because my eyesight no longer would let me use iron sights out to 200 yards. The guts in that scope were gone. When I checked it back at the camp, it would walk 15"-20" without me ever touching it.

You spend $300-$500 on a rifle ??? You need to spend as much above that as you can to get a good scope. Is a $2000 Zeiss or Swarovski, etc. necessary? Nope? My personal choice ... yep.

Can't go there ? Not a problem, Get into the $350-$600 range and you can fined several makes that will do just fine. My personal recommendation in that price range are the Leupold Vari-X II and Vari-X III line and the the Zeiss Conquest.

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

You don't need to spend 3-6 hundred dollars to get a good hunting scope. If you can afford it by all means do it, but from the sounds of it you can't. Going from a savage package deal to getting a 600 dollar Leupold scope is a pretty big leap. If you are looking for a varmint rig or target rig with lots of magnification then I would say yes, 300 is about where they start to get good. But for a low powered hunting scope you can find some very decent scopes in the 150-200 dollar range.

I have never been a believer in the spend as much on the scope as you did the rifle concept. Just makes no sense to me considering the large range of gun prices out there. If I am getting a gun to deer hunt with and I go with a Stevens or Mossberg for around 250-300 dollars then I should get a 300 dollar scope. If I get a nicer rifle for say $1500 for the same purpose I now need to get a scope that costs more than a grand? That just makes no sense to me. The more expensive rifle is just going to be more pretty than the cheaper one, the performance is going to be virtually the same.

like I said if you can afford it go for it, but if you can't don't beat yourself up over it.

Going from a Tasco to a higher end Zeiss or Swarovski is a HUGE leap in price and quality. There are tons of scopes inbetween there that are perfectly suitable for large game hunting. Lets be honest here, if you had over $1000 dollars to spend on a rifle and scope you wouldn't be looking at Savage package deals or the Remington 770.

Paul

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

Paul L Mohr: I pretty much agree with you. If your rifle costs $2000, that doesn't mean spend $2000 on a scope. It is important to remember the flip-side of this. If your rifle costs $200, that doesn't mean spend $200 on the scope. For my own money, I don't see how a scope that is better (and more expensive) than a Leupold VX III is going to provide me any better hunting performance. This scope provides me a bright, sharpimage at the legal start and end of the hunting day (1/2 hour before sunrise and 1/2 hour after sunset in Oklahoma). Why do I need a brighter scope so I can hunt at midnight because that is an illegal time for me to hunt? Just an example, substitute your own preferred choice.

What you want to do is consider what your scope needs are. You can buy a serviceable, reliable scope for less money if you choose an appropriate manufacturer. Just to use an example, a Leupold VX II, while less expensive and lower quality than a VX III, would likely be very reliable. The difference? Higher quality optics and optical coatings in the VX III that improve the low light performance and image sharpnessof the VX III. It doesn't make sense to get a low cost scope by a dubious manufacturer -- no telling what kind of problems you are liable to experience.

When I inherited my father's rifles on his passing they were scoped with a low cost brand, the name now escapes me. When shooting one of these rifles I discovered that the rear lens housing could easily be rocked sideways back and forth by hand. I wonder what happened during the recoil caused by firing the rifle? The rifle wouldn't shoot groups at all, because of this flimsy, cheap scope. I wonder how susceptible this scope would have been to fogging, given this rear lens housing situation? I replaced that scope promptly with a Leupold.

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

I get what your saying, but Leupold is not the only quality scope on the market. Most scopes in the 200 dollar range are going to be very good scopes if you keep the power low and don't go for all kinds of do dads. Bushnell 3200, Nikon, Burris and others all make very good scopes.

You probably had an older tasco, simmons or bushnell that was cheap to begin with.

Paul

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

For a couple of decadesi suffered with cheap scopes; got a box full of busted cheap scopes in the attic for my trouble.My advice is to buy a quality scope the first time. Getgood qualityNikon, Leupold, Burrisor Zeiss scope and it will last you a lifetime.As for me,i am partial to Leupold and Zeiss fixed power scopes.

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

If you can spend the money get the best optics you can. I have severalleupolds, a zeiss and a swarovski for my optics. Now if money is tight go out look at the bushnell 3200 series 3-9x 40mm. I saw one in the local sporting good store the other day and when looking thru it near dusk it looked pretty good for a 200.00 scope.

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

About 6 months back I bought the savage 300 win mag combo. Honestly, if I hadn't planned on putting that cheap little scope on my .22 I would have never bought the combo. Those scopes are crap past 100 yards IMHO. Savage makes an awesome gun, but the scope sours the deal for me. Just buy the savage 30-06 and go buy a Nikon Monarch or Zeiss Conquest and you will have a great setup.

Oh.. make sure and get a decent mount and set of rings too. ;)

RE: 30-06 options - am I cheaping out with a combo?
 

We bought a remington 710 combo for my sister trying to save money and had it shipped back 3 times for bolt problems.
I just bought a Remington 700 in .308 for $475 and a nikon 3-9x40 with bdc for $199. i love it and i just bought another remington 700 this yr.