oldelkhunter

+1

Rifle Loony

Karl Kampfeld's own words...........

zrexpilot

I guess,
dont know what to say I dont make this stuff up.
Let me give you a run down on my exp with the last few guns.
10 years ago I bought a Rem 700 BDL in .270, leuplod scope. 2-1/2" grouping at 100 yds.
Sold it. 5 years ago bought a n 870 12 guage, POS rusted the first dove season, painted and eventually sold it. 5 years ago bought my 700 VLS .243, shoots pretty darn good, with a bull barrel and 2 1/2 lb trigger it should, but no better than my friends weatherby .243. Bought my NEF in the Hornet, did nothing to it but it shoots under an 1" all day long.
Friend had browning in .300 mag shot under an inch, sold it because it was just too much, bought a 7-08 thompson stainless last year, pos rusted in the box, went to shoot it, every single round would get stuck in the chamber, never grouped better than 3" at a 100. His rossi .223 shoots under an 1" every single day. Returned the Thompson got a Rem 7-08 SPS . Wont group better than 2" His friend bought the thompson.243 same crap no better than 3" at a 100.
Brother of one friend has and old mossberg .243, shoots under an 1"
Its been a long time since Ive seen a rem shoot. My VLS is probably the best of all of us. Ive had some 1" groups at 200 yds, but it seems to always have a flyer.
Remington and thompson are not on my list of accurate rifles

BigTiny

Zrex, that was what I was saying in my post waaay back before the really good name-calling got started. Just my personal experience with both Remington and Savage, having shot both. Maybe the military gave me the worst Remington ever, seven times, and I just got lucky with the Savage, twice in a row. Just joking about the Remington being the worst. They all shot fine, just not as well as the Savages.

bronko22000

Regardless of what anyone says, I must say the IMO, I have to agree with the above statement. If I were to build a custom rifle, I would choose the Remington 700 action because I also feel it is a teriffic base. But that is all I would use from Remington.
Sort of like buying a car just for the engine. The rest of it may be crap but the motor runs great. I really don't know what happened with Remington. I have several older rifles and shotguns with their name on and they shoot great and never malfunctioned (except too much mud in the 870 one time). But I just don't get a warm fuzzy feeling with the newer models.
But the fact is I think we just get too caught up in the sub MOA quandry and if a rifle doesn't shoot less than an inch at 100 yds, its junk. And except for the hunters who hunt out in the western states where 300 yd shots are not uncommon, a rifle that shoots a 3" group is more than accurate enough. Tight little groups are nice, but for most of us its not necessary.
I say, to each their own. Let's not argue amongst ourselves. Its simply childish. And from what I read so far, its getting personal which is way beyond what the forum is for.
Savage or Remington, or Tikka, or Weatherby, it doesn't matter.
I like my Savage rifles (and a few Remingtons), my Dodge pickup truck, my labrador retriever, etc. - Are they the best. Maybe, maybe not, But they work for me and I used my $$ to get them.

zrexpilot

bronco maybe I grew up in the age when guns were made better I dont know, but as a kid in the ,70's all our guns put the bullet in the bull all day long. Even our 30-30's
3" grouping was left to a .22 rimfire. 200 yds is where we bragged, cause everyone nailed the bull at a 100back then. So whats going on now. an 800 dollar rifle grouping 2 or 3 " is disgusting, thats slug gun territory.

bronko22000

I couldn't agree more. We do expect the manufacturers to sell us rifles that shoot 1" groups - but a lot of times it just doesn't happen. I have to laugh to myself when I read some of the articles in these hunting and gun magazines where writers are praising this or that rifle and when you get to the tables they put in showing the ammo fired and the group size (largest, smallest, average) I think to myself - either this guy can't shoot or that rifle sucks.

driftrider

I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with either, but I will say that my Savage 30-06 is more accurate than either of the Rem 700's I've owned. My 10ML is more accurate than the M700 ADL .243, which even after a trigger job wouldn't shoot inside 2.5" at 100 yards, even with handloads and a trigger job, so I traded it off. I also had an M700 VLS in .22-250 that wouldn't consistantly shoot under 1 MOA with a half dozen handload workups I tried, and 1.25 MOA was tough. For a varmint/target rifle, I don't require it to be a one-hole shooter, but I do expect at least sub-MOA accuracy. I should have never sold off the Ruger M-77V/T that the VLS was supposed to replace because the BBl was getting shot out. It was an honest .75 MOA rifle, all day long. I got the Savage 30-06 really on an impulse because the price was very good as it has a couple blemishes on the stock from handling as a display gun, and after working out a bedding issue (action screws not properly torqued), it'll shoot consistant 3/4" groups at 100 yards with cheap Winchester 150gr Power Points. I don't handload for it because I don't shoot it enough to go through the trouble when it shoots $15/box factory ammo so well. If I did I have no doubts that I could squeeze another 1/4" or so out of it, but consider that it's meant to shoot at deer at under 300 yards, I figure why bother? It's not the prettiest rifle (it's blued/walnut) around, but I think that it looks a lot better than some of the butt-ugly, but very pricy, Remington 700 customs with their lackluster spray-on metal finishes and molded composite pseudo-camo stocks. Not to say that those $2000+ customs don't shoot nice, but many look like they have a military Humvee paint job (if you've ever been up close to a humvee, you'll know what I'm talking about ).

Maybe it's just my personal preference, but if I'm gonna dump over 2 grand into a rifle, it better look as nice as it shoots. If all you want is a utilitarian rifle that shoots, as ol' Comrade Obama would say, "above its pay grade," then there's nothing wrong with a Savage. If others choose to look down their nose at my Savage(s), I couldn't care less. They shoot great and don't look half bad when dressed in hardwood or laminated wood (the synthetic stocks are butt-ugly and look like they are molded with the same care as a Rubbermaid trash can, I'll concede that).

Mike

Rifle Loony

98% of rifle accuracy comes from the guy pulling the trigger....

Not all calibers/chamberings are created equal in terms of "MOA accuracy"....

Not all "rifle experts" understand that matching bullet weight/length to twist is a requirement of "accuracy".....

Not all factory ammo will shoot as well as taylored handloads, and it's only been recently that certain factory offerings could even be considered as being as accurate as handloads.....

A Remington incorrectly set up will likely shoot worse thana Savage properly set up....

A lot of "accuracy testimonials" come from guys that don't realize the simple stuff, like thesling studs dragging on the bags is bad.......

A lot of "accuracy testimonials" come from guys who think cheap glass is thebest way to go.....

"Out of the box" shooters have little understanding of Rifle Mechanics, Ballistics, or Marksmanship. They avoid doing anythingto a rifle beyond stuffing ammo in the mag well.They seak the easy path of least resistance, and don't shoot much. Their rifles stay mostly in the gunsafe......

The Win 70 and the Rem 700 have bar none been the best selling bolt action rifles in Americanhistory. The 700 is the most copied, the most customized,considered the most reliable, and carries a fair resale value...even in basic degraded factory condition. Folks will seek out and buy a 700, paying more than a savage is worth, just to get the actionfor another build.....

This thread was about Savage vs. Remington....not Remington vs. NEF/Rossi in defense of Savage.

The design of the Remington 700 islightyears ahead of the Savage...proven by the fact it's the best selling,the most copied, and the most customized. You need only that to wina head to head comparison.

CommonSense

When the rifles in my safe that have the word "Savage" stamped on the bolt fail to kill game, or shoot where I aim them, then perhaps I will start lacing my drinks withwhatever you guys have been.All brands of rifles are welcome in my safe, Savage, Remington, Kimber, Browning, etc. they all get the job done. If you want to argue THAT, then there is no helping you. Obviously, the Remington actionis a FAR better choice for a project rifle, and is a more foolproof design, which is why it is so popular. So I will agree, that for the guy who wants to buy a hunting rifle, and perhaps do some serious customization down the road, that he Remington 700 would be the beter choice, but for a drag through the mud and grime hunting rifle, either would do in that case.