RE: SAVAGE VS REMINGTON THE HN SHOWDOWN!!!
 

Who said that button rifling was not as accurate?? I said that it is the cheapest way to do rifling?? And it is!! I also said thereal problem with button rifling is that normally the barrel will foul faster. And normally it will if it is not polished. Button rifling is basically a tearing process and not a cut process, therefore it is normally "rougher" in nature-hence faster fouling.

Cut rifling is considered the best rifling if doneproperly. At least that is what BR shooters tell me.I believeKrieger uses cut rifling, and they are a high quality barrel.Now before some one starts saying that I said other barrels are bad-please note that I did not say Hart barrels are bad. They are also great barrels.

I own Savages and Remington rifles. My Savage rifles do foul faster than my Remington's. This is a fact-not an opinion. I also find that my Savage rifles tend to heat up faster than my Remington barrels. But I will also say that my Savage rifles shoot as well as my Remington rifles.

The main place I have noticed a difference in accuracy between Savage and Remington is in the rimfire arena. My Remington rimfires will definitely outshoot my Savage rimfires. But they also cost a good bit more. Tom.

RE: SAVAGE VS REMINGTON THE HN SHOWDOWN!!!
 

Just that hammer forging and button rifling is not an either or proposition. Most barrels are hammer forged and button rifled including most of the highest end custom barrels currently in production. The idea that the button rifling technique is inferior, is way out there my friend! Here are some of the inferior button endrifled manufacturers. MRC, Broughton, Lilja, Hart, Shilen, Douglas, Schneider, Pac-Nor. Hey wait a minute arent they the names you always hear associated with winning long range championships?

RE: SAVAGE VS REMINGTON THE HN SHOWDOWN!!!
 

only 2 kinds of rifleing I'm aware of, broached or cut rifleing, and button rifleing, cut rifleing uses a cutter and removes metal, button uses an oversized sped to more or less iron the rifleing into the barrel. There is canted land and progressive twist but they are just varients of cut rifleing. hammer forging involves useing a hammer mill to make a piece of steel round and tapered, they still have to be rifled.
RR
[ol][*]Broach[*]Button[*]Cut rifle[*]Hammer Forged[*]EDM[/ol]



Broach is all the grooves are cut into the barrel in a single pass
Button a carbide button with the lands impression is pulled or pushed thru forming grooves and lands
Cut rifle or single point involves making multiple cuts just to make one groove on a barrel
Hammer Forged ...forging a steel blank that is substantially shorter then the finished product. A specially machined mandrel is inserted into the blank that is pre-drilled it is placed in the hammer mill and in the process the barrel lengthens and can be tapered or full diameter whatever the machine is programmed for.
EDM --electrical discharge manufacturing

Broughton barrels are canted land and arebutton rifled other custom button manufacturers also make canted land barrels


No one said that button rifling is not accurate AGAIN READ MY POSTS .I would say that almost 100 % if not 100 % of target shooters use button rifled barrels someone that knows more about match shooting and benchresting would know a more exact figure as I am going by popular manufacturer names that do button rifles. Now I know for a fact that custom barrel especially the ones that button rifle don't use the Savage method of making a button rifle barrel. I'll describe the procedure for you...They get a round piece of steel , they deep drill it as straight as they can, They ream the hole to the final caliberdimension and then they insert the carbide button which is pushed on almost all of them thru the blank or pulled(Schneider barrels) . It is then lapped to remove any tool marks. You think Savage does that on each barrel ?



Anyway this post is gettingreal old. Scot I want you to call Hart and ask them if they hammer forge then button rifle their barrels when you have a chance. Do it after the poor guy has his morning coffee otherwise he may spew all over his keyboard. Signals crossed up my ARse

RE: SAVAGE VS REMINGTON THE HN SHOWDOWN!!!
 

Head on the bottom right of the post it identifies who the post is replying to. You will notice that I have only replied to Ridge and OldElk in the posts. I will now respond to your quote.

Do you realize that the vast majority of BR competitions are won my button rifled barrels? Now with that being the case, Do you believe that competative BR shooters would shoot anything but the best? Especially considering that there is virtually no difference in price.

Notice my post you are quoting says "inferior"it doesnt not say "not accurate". While I have referenced the clear accuracy track record of button rifling, it was in response to Oid Elks post #26 whichacts likeRemington has "a breakthrough in modern technology" that give them some advange over the rest of the market. I was simply pointing out that if they have a differnent manufacturing technique theadvantage certainly is not accuracy.

RE: SAVAGE VS REMINGTON THE HN SHOWDOWN!!!
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: Scott Gags

Head on the bottom right of the post it identifies who the post is replying to. You will notice that I have only replied to Ridge and OldElk in the posts. I will now respond to your quote.







Sorry about that. I wasn'tsure, but I see now what you are talking about. I have a very limited knowledge of BR shooting. I do belong to a 1,000 yard range, and we have some pretty good BR shooters there. Most of them shoot Krieger barrels. That is why I only stated "the ones I talked too". Itdoes seem like you can learn alot. However I personally do not believe that Savage goes through the time necessary to make a button rifled BR barrel. This is just my opinion though. I have no first hand knowledge to base that on.

Please accept my apology for my mistake. Tom.

RE: SAVAGE VS REMINGTON THE HN SHOWDOWN!!!
 

Thanks, but it looks like it didn't work. They went right back at it.

RE: SAVAGE VS REMINGTON THE HN SHOWDOWN!!!
 

Tom I think that cut rifled barrels are the way to go on a hunting rifle and dont see why they wouldn't work just as well on a match gun. Out of all the barrel rifling techniques they are the most stable and induce the least amount of stress on the barrel.It will be my first choice for my next project which will be rebarrelling a remington 798 .Your right also on the Savage barrels not being BR quality. There is no way that is possible considering the way they manufacture their guns. They make a nice straight barrel that tend to be a bit rough inside but they still shoot well.

RE: SAVAGE VS REMINGTON THE HN SHOWDOWN!!!
 

Didn't anyone here see the article in Shooting Times Magazine a couple months ago, all about bbl making? It showed the process, the top bbl makers, and why they did it the way they do it.

I think many of you here will learn something from reading the article...

DM

RE: SAVAGE VS REMINGTON THE HN SHOWDOWN!!!
 

what about browning rifles ?

RE: SAVAGE VS REMINGTON THE HN SHOWDOWN!!!
 

Browning does not manufacture a rifle. It is a trade name. But they do have some good rifles. Tom.