3 round burst group size?
 

i have always been interested in the groups size a 3 round burst from a M-16-A2. so can help me out here. i suppose other rifles with burst capabilty or full auto would be interesting too

RE: 3 round burst group size?
 

hmmm very interesting....ive shot many full autos and some with the 3rd burst...never put them on paper...i put them on silloets just spraying away but thats about it...im one of the lucky teenagers that get to play with machine guns......more than half of my school would tell me to own a machine gun is illegal...after i was telling my friends after my first time they told me it was illegal...but its not and all the guns have all their paper work....they are very fun to play with...unless you have very good muzzle control i dont think youll get anything impressive...maybe an inch at 50yds if your really good with a 3 rd burst...thats just a guess on what ive seen...maybe next time i get to play i will see...thats a good question......

RE: 3 round burst group size?
 

1 inch at 50 yards? You will be lucky to get a 3 inch group at 25 yards. 3 round bursts are not condusive to precision shooting.

RE: 3 round burst group size?
 

The miltary is primarily concerned with placing bullets down range and not overly concerned with group size with the 3 rd burst. I don' t know what, or if, there is a military standard. An experianced shooter will do alot better than a casual shooter. If you ever have an opportunity try shooting an M-14 on full auto:)

RE: 3 round burst group size?
 

I' m not sure what the three round burst rifles will do today but in the late sixties we aimed for crotch and pulled the trigger. Normally the last round would be quite near the left collar bone or left shoulder. The purpose was to wound low with the first round or kill with the second round or wound with the third. Naturally sometimes the first round hit the dirt and the other two would ding ' em. Sorry I can' t tell you we had good groups back then, but it seems that Marines are always in a hurry. Except when they' re waiting...to be in a hurry.
Good luck with your question. I' ll keep checking this post...I' m curious too.

I sure would like to see a picture of a 1" , 3 round group fired from a fully automatic rifle, at 50yds. Yup, yup.

critch

RE: 3 round burst group size?
 

haha ok i thought about that im laughing at myself as i type this.....that is really unreasonable....maybe more like a foot at 25yds?? 3 rd burst really doesnt climb much if you hold on.....and if your expierience and strong you can hold it tight and squeeze off for them 3 rds and get them within a foot or 2 i bet at 25 not 50 lol.....an inch..i cant believe i wrote that.....i think i meant foot but o well...its kinda funny lol...sorry...i dont know what i was thinking....i think i meant foot...

RE: 3 round burst group size?
 

I thik the 3 round burst group is a srong. you go got to hold it tight.

RE: 3 round burst group size?
 

when i went to boot camp they demonstrated the 3 round burst on water filled ammo cans at 25 meters.All 3 hit and that was the best i have seen while in the military.

RE: 3 round burst group size?
 

I' ve been following this thread for a few days now, just to see what kind of poop would be posted. Now from my experiences, when one shoots on full auto, whether it is an M-14, M-16, M-16A1, or the M16A2 with 3-round burst, it is more of a pattern rather than anything resembling a group.

Now for record, I have shot 30 rounds magazines at Figure 11 Ivan EIC targets (approx. 20" wide by 40" high) at 100 meters. Shooting from a prone supported position, with a very tight hold, the hit rate is between 50-65%. That was with a M16A1, 30 round magazines, and on full auto. At 25 meters on a standard M16A1 zero target, a 30 round magazine on full auto, with the same prone supported position, would pattern 6-8" , with approximately 80-90% of rounds on paper.
With the M16A2, on 3 round burst, hit rates on burst mode are better, simply becuase one has a chance to correct sight picture before firing the next burst. Still on a Figure 11 Ivan target at 100 meters, the hit rate only increase to about 75-80% with a 30 round magazine. At 25 meters, the hit rate is better with patterns in the 4-6" range and 90-100% rounds on paper.

Now when one jumps up to the big boys, like the M-14 or any other full auto capable battle rifle chambered in 7.62 NATO, it is a totally different story. Most people have probably shot a .308 Win round in some kind of hunting rifle at one time or another. But, that is nothing compared to shooting a 20 round magazine out of a M14 on full auto. There is no way any human could possibly control the recoil to get any kind of pattern much less any kind of group with something like a M-14. It is not that the M-14 in 7.62 NATO is that punishing recoil wise, it is just that there is no possible way to keep the sights and muzzle aligned on target.

RE: 3 round burst group size?
 

A buddy of mine' s ol' man is a state trooper, I forget his real title, but he' s a K-9 Patrol Officer (drugs, bombs, and cadavers) with another title that means he' s the gun guy. It' s something like a tactical officer or something, it' s basically a S.W.A.T. and a sniper all rolled into one person, he gets to play with everything from the M-24' s, the M-79, to the fully auto M-4' s (with M-203 attached) all the time, needless to say I' m over at his place a lot :D;). He just got a new AR-15 a couple months ago, and showed his boy and I how fun it was with the new 3rnd burst option.

I couldn' t keep all three on the same side of a house, let alone on a paper, he took the gun from me an says " no, do like this" we had a 5 spot target set up at 50yrds, and he three bursted the top two and the middle, all three shots were on the papers (5 8.5x11" sheets nailed to ply wood with 4" target dot painted on.) Basically they were 8" groups at 50yrds, and with the speed he did it, I was rather impressed!!

RE: 3 round burst group size?
 

Most of what could be said about 3 rd burst has been covered.
But, I' ll add some weapons have such a slow rate of fire you can get 1, 2 and 3 shot taps out of them even when set on full-auto.

RE: 3 round burst group size?
 

I have tested a number of military weapons that have full-auto capability, including M2 Carbines, M16' s, M14' s, AK' s and a number of different SMG' s. As far as rifle-caliber weapons go, I could usually hit the target with the first ttwo rounds, one at the point of aim, the next about shoulder level, and any subsequent ones went off into the air at ever-incresing angles. This is why I favor semi-auto fire, and aimed shots!!

RE: 3 round burst group size?
 

thanks all, interseting. now i wonder what a decent muzzle break could do with it. oh well probably never find out

RE: 3 round burst group size?
 

Hey 1 shot, That' s the best post that I' ve seen on a 3rd burst. I mentioned shooting the M-14 on auto because it is an interesting experiance. I did not mean to imply that it could be done with any real degree of accuracy.

RE: 3 round burst group size?
 

Propmahn, actually on your muzzle brake question: I beleive the AK-74 has the best muzzle brake. I watched some shoe on TV about them, and when the guy was shooting the AK-47 and M-4 the muzzle rise was a lot. Now he pulled out the AK-74 and hardly any rise at all. It was a good show on the Discovery Ch or History Ch about the life and times of the AK-47.

RE: 3 round burst group size?
 

I shoot a full auto M16-A2 today. It was converted to 22lr. The gun had bassicaly no recoil, and very little muzzle climb. I kept 3 shots with in about 4 inches at 50yds. I also shot an MP-5, and for a 9mm the gun had alot of muzzle climb. Probably looking at about 1ft for a 3 shot group.

RE: 3 round burst group size?
 

The correct answer is, depends on the shooter and the situation. If you are on a range where you have time to aim in and keep a nice tight position, then I don' t thing that it' s unreasonable for a good shooter to put a 3-rd burst from an M16A2 into a silouette target at 100 yards. But from my experience with the M16A2 where you' re engageing multiple targets in rapid succession and fairly close range, and in during a " final protective fire" when the enemy is anmost in your fighting hole, then accuracy isn' t as good. Burst mode is not stressed much in the Marine Corps, as the Marines have always preferred to teach marksmanship and the " one shot-one kill" philosophy. As a result, it' s pretty rare that the rifle is put into burst mode. Why shoot one guy one to three times when you could shoot three guys once each?

The most accurate automatic weapon I had the pleasure to shoot in the service was the H&K MP5. While my skills were not that great with it, I could keep about 75% of the rounds on target at 25 yards, and that' s shooting one 30rd mag with one pull of the trigger. Most of the experienced SRT guys could shoot 100% into the 5 zone shooting 5-7rd bursts.

Mike