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frizzellr

Generally speaking a concealed carry gun and a competition gun are two different animals. I am a big guy and I used to have a Taurus PT101 in 40 S&W and for concealed carry it was the pits. Heavy, big, and bulky to carry concealed under anything other than an overcoat. I live in the South. I have since went to a PT111 in 9mm. the difference is tremendous. I am sure some of the die hard 1911 fans will argue the virtues of their favorite pistol, but I am just giving you the gospel according to Rob which can be taken with a grain of salt. Now I was once a big " bigger is better" type when it came to handgun cartridges, but I have mellowed in my old age. The 45 ACP is a great cartridge for defense. Always was and will remain so, but the drawback is that it is heavy and when shot from small, light handguns the recoil can be detrimental to target aquisition. Same with the 40 S&W, though not much heavier than the 9mm, recoil is greater. The 9mm has come a long way since since the days of 115 grain FMJ bullets. Well designed, easy to feed, reliable expanding hollowpoints make the 9mm a very effective stopper. 9mm ammo is generally cheaper than 45 ACP as well so you might factor that in. If you really want a gun for concealed carry, get a gun for concealed carry and worry about your competition gun later.

Nomercy

Someone' s going to mention it by name, if they haven' t already, but in the 90' s there was a bank robbery in California in which the FBI lost several agents to armed men shooting AK-47' s wearing body armor-making through the arm or under the arm shots the only non-head leathal shot available, they had just previously switched to the 9mm because it is lighter recoiling...upon autopsy one of the robbers was found to have 4 bullets lodged in the musculature under either arm, any of which were quoted to have been lethal IF a .45 acp had been used. Following this terrible account, the FBI switched back to the .45acp as their standard issue arm. I myself will never own a 9mm, because they just don' t cut the mustard when it comes to power, a man can learn to shoot a .45 just as well as a 9mm, and then he' ll have a real weapon on hand.

Like I always say when it comes to defense, if you' re going to throw rounds at someone, you want as much frontal area and stank going at him as you can handle well. The increased recoil of the .45 is not enough to cause usage problems for most men, even my fiance (5' 5" 120#) handles one like a popgun, but the increased stopping power is incredibly noticeable, making the .45 a much better option to the 9mm.

Get the Springfield Arms Mini compact .45acp 1911 and you' ve got one heck of a concealed arm!!! All the accuracy you could ask for, and more stopping power than a small frame should ever have!! Plus, they' re about as good looking as they get.

frizzellr

Well nomercy, as you said in the other post you have big bores on the brain and you have a right to your opinion. However, at least acknowledge the fact that the 9mm ammo the FBI used in that shootout in the late 80s was very much different from the high quality ammo that is available for the 9mm today. Some of the +P 9mm ballistics rival those of your beloved 230 grain flying ashtray. Concealed carry sort of comes down to a compromise and personally, I will opt for a more controlable cartridge/firearm combination.

Briman

Its my understanding that some of these 9mm bullets went completely though the bank robbers from one side and stopped in the shoulder of the other side of the body on the way out. These shots would have been fatal, though they didn' t kill the perp right away. A .45 certainly woul dhave punched a bigegr hole and might have stopped them sooner, but by no means would out penetrate a 9mm.

If you use good quality expanding bullets, the stopping power of a 9mm is virtually the same as that of a .45, and no, stopping power is not the same thing as recoil.

GordonGekko

Uh, oh, you' ve opened up a can of worms here (I just hope you don' t ask if the 270 or 280 is better, or maybe 30-06 or 308) Anyway, let me tell you my feelings, take all of your statistics and throw them out the window (remember there are three types of liars: a liar, a d@mn liar, and a statistician!). My point is these studies can be manipulated (possibly without the researcher even knowing it). So you decision boils down to preference. Here it gets tricky, the recoil of neither gun is uncontrolable, so to me at least that isn' t a factor. What is a factor your comfort witht the weapon you choose. I carry a 1911 in 45 (no I don' t find it to be too heavy or bulky for concealed carry), however, the 1911 isn' t for everybody. It can be intimidating, and the most effective carry condition, condition 1 (cocked and locked) will make many nervous. As a result I don' t recommend it to a novice (I carry mine because that is what I' m comfortable with, and I use it for CDP competition). However, either caliber will be adequate for home defense (although I would never reccomend anything lighter than a 9mm). And as for competition, you can use any carry gun for CDP competition which I highly recommend, so there are no limits there. I would base it on which gun I wanted, in your price range I really like the Springfield Armory XP' s. But I wouldn' t advise going any lower money wise, the key is you want a gun that is 100% reliable (no matter what caliber its in), and not all of the lower end guns are. But, I really think if you become good with either caliber you will be well protected (my wife carries a 9mm and that should tell you how I feel about them, the one thing I love most carries one).

As for the incident in L.A. I don' t see how that applies, as a civilian we will most likely never be involved in a firefight, much less one where the bad guys have body armor! If that does become common, rest assured I will carry something bigger than a handgun. Also, it was a shoot out in Miami (not L.A.) in the late 80' s that prompted the FBI to go away from a 9mm as " standard issue" , they first switched to a 10mm and then found out many officers couldn' t control the recoil. Then they moved to a loaded down 10mm (which gave rise to the 40 S&W), and in fact today I believe any FBI officer can be approved to carry any of the following, 38 Spec., 357 mag, 9mm, 40 S&W, 10mm, 45 ACP, and I' m not sure but I think a 357 sig., provided they can qualify with the gun they are going to carry. Which tells me it' s probably the Indian, and not the arrows that makes a weapon effective.

Gordon

P.S. Sorry I didn' t mean to write a book.

Josh Sorensen

I have to disagree on the 9mm. THere is a reason that most law enforcement departments are goign up to the 40s and the 45s. The nine is just not powerful enough. I' m sure a lot of people are killed with them but the fact remains that they are just not getting it done well enough. You simply can' t make the 9mm as leathal a round as the bigger 40, 10mm, or 45. Granded you can take the best 9mm load and compare it to a weaker 45 load and say the 9mm is better all you want but all things being equal the 40, 10mm, and 45 are more powerfull and sometimes that added power is needed. I' m sure that most anybody would be perfectly satisfied with thier 9mm concealed carry gun 98% of the time, but for that 2% of the time I would perfer to jump up to the 40 s&W at least. I had a HK USP Compact in 40S&W that was a real joy to carry and shoot. That would be my first choice in a concealed carry gun. I have a Taurus Tracker Ti in 41 mag that is also really nice to carry. It doesn' t weight hardly anything and is small enough to hide fairly easily. If you shoot a 9 and like it, more power to you, but I want to know that if I have to shoot something I want to drop it at the shot and the 9mm hasn' t proven that it can do that reliably enough for me.

ARBowHntr

.40 S&W in the Glock 23. Compact and handles real well even with my big size 14 ring finger hands. When my life is on the line, nothing less than a 40 will do for me. Just heard to many first hand stories about 9mm that were not good. Make sure that you get a good bullet as well, stay away from the " Starfire" if they even make it anymore.

bigcountry

For all around cost, effectiveness, and performance, you can' t beat the 40

diyj98

The thugs in Miami were also shot multiple times with shotguns, but I wouldn' t call a 12 gauge shotgun ineffective. I believe the one was finally stopped with a 38 special to the head. So that proves the 38 special is the greates manstopper going!


Seriously, I' m sure the 45 has an edge over the 9mm. To me the big pluses for the 9mm are the ability to be chambered in a smaller easier concealled package, and the vast amount of cheap surplus practice ammo.

I' ve carried both 45' s and 9mm and never worried about any practical difference in effectiveness. I' ll generally grab a 9mm due to it' s smaller size when I need a concealed weapon.