good gun and caliber?
 

i am looking for a good extremely long range rifle that is very accurate out of the box. i also plan on rebarrelling it once the barrel is worn out but i need some advice. thought about m700 sendero in 7mm rum. i look forward to your feedback!!

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

The one you suggested is probably as good a choice as any. In addition, you might consider something chambered for the .338 Lapua or the .30-.378 Weatherby. But please note that it is often much more difficult to develop accurate loads with the real large-capacity rounds. I have heard of cases in which people actually shot out a bore before finding a really good load.

Some smaller-capacity rounds can be quite accurate at extreme ranges, but of course have steeper trajectories. But often this difference is not so large.

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

thanks for the input i have alot of experience shooting and just want feedback from those that share a common interest

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

Whenever I see that Sendero I think 264 Win. Mag. There are some outstanding bullets available in140-142 gr. range.

On a side note, I'm curious as to whatyoufolksconsider extreme long range. For me it's 600+, but I know for others it's much further.

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

i would also consider extreme long range 600+ and i know that my 308 will shoot it but i want more energy on impact. however i will look into the 264 win mag thanks

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

Sako TRG 42 in 338 Lapua works for me, it's a little pricey and a bit bulky but a great choice in an over the counter than is ready to shoot right out of the box. It's also available in 300 Win mag.

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

Are you planning on hunting big gamelike elk or medium sized like deer? I would choose a 270 WSM for deer and a 300 UM for elk.With handloads the300 UM can delivery 3370fps with 180 grain bullets and 3200fps with 200 grain bullets in a 26" tube. The 200 grain accubond has a BC of .588 this has tremendous downrage energy2000+ lbs/KE at 700 yards.

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

i am pretty set on the 7 rum and i don't reload they tend to have more factory loads in my area but also considered the 300 rum and yes elk and moose

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

Get a browning eclipse 1000 in 300 win mag and have it rechambered to 300 rem ultra mag. Then put some GOOD glass on top of it.

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

With long range shooting and factory ammo you are going to restrict youself. Handloading is almost a must as there are few factory loads that are using "heavy for caliber" or VLD bullets needed to obtain the high BC's which are very helpful to flatten trajectories,buck the wind and decrease travel time. Not saying it cant be done with factory fodderbut you are going to need all the accuracy that can be squeezed out of a rifle/ammo combo. For the serious shooters they even have the throat cut for a particular bullet. Not to rain on your parade just giving you an opinion.

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

DoubleA is totally correct in that you'll havta handload to realize any kind of exceptional long range accuracy. There are many aspects of shooting at long range,equipment only being a major part of total package. You can't just buy a long range capable rifle and expect to make long range shots with it out of box. Ridge runner is the 1 to ask about long range stuff.

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

There are probably a few but for my money, out the door, out of the box a Remington Sendero in .300 Win mag is about as close as you can get. Handload it with some Sierra 200 gr. BTSP and you'd have a great start. Or find factory ammo it will digest. As the others have said true long range rigs are a combination of gun, optics, shooter and ammo (not factory ammo).

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

are you against a custom?

6.5mm/284 is a very popular 1000yd benchrest cartridge.

even the .308 has been used in 1000yd competition with some success.

if you're looking for 1000yd accuracy or 1000yd killing of game?

for long range accuracy I think you'd have a tough time finding a better round....

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

+1

Long Range and factory ammo don't mix...

But....if you have to shoot factory ammo, then at least get something chambered in a more popular round so premium ammo will always be around.;)

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

looking mainly for long range killing ability. how expensive is reloading equipment? may consider it.

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

berger vld's in 7mm?

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

I have the 700 sendero in the 7mm rum. its a beast. I too shoot long ranges, hunting and target. I have a Burris 8x32 on top and also use range finder. Shot a 200lb boar at 780 yards square in front left shoulder, bullet went through the other shoulder.(dead pig,dropped where he stood)This weapon is factory, shooting factory ammo.

this is an excellent choice.

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

Another vote for the .338 Lapua Mag. I bought an Armalite AR-30 and love it. Only issue is having the trigger lightened up some. Mine was heavy. Maybe 7-8 #. I had an armorer with a PD take it down for me to about 2.5 and it is fantastic. As far as the downrange killing ability, it is really tough to beat. Take a look at the following info.

http://www.snipercentral.com/338.htm
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballistics/338_lapua_mag.html

And some other info I had pasted about about 1 1/2 years agon on the caliber:

Mine, with scope, and rings, just over 14 lbs. I know, that is a bit heave to lug around, but still doable. And every bit worth it when it comes time to shoot. I have provided lots of info from OTHER SOURCES than just myself below. Seems there are a few people who have their doubts. I have one of these, and personally, I love it. Heavier than most hunting rifles, but that is something that I am willing to accept.








Here are the Specs from the Factory, right from their Web site.





MODEL:
AR-30M

CALIBER:
..300 WIN MAG, .308 WIN, .338 LAPUA

RECEIVER FORM:
MODIFIED OCTAGONAL FORM,


DRILLED AND SLOTTED FOR SCOPE RAIL

BOLT:
DUAL FRONT LOCKING LUG

BARREL:
26" CHROME MOLY, 6 GROOVE RH 1:10 INCH TWIST

MUZZLE DEVICE:
MULTIFLUTE RECOIL CHECK

STOCK:
3 SECTION: EXTRUDED FOREND, MACHINED GRIP


WITH VERTICAL GRIP, FORGED AND MACHINED


REMOVABLE BUTTSTOCK

FINISH:
MANGANESE PHOSPHATED STEEL,


HARD ANODIZED ALUMINUM

OVERALL LENGTH:
48 INCHES

WEIGHT:
12 POUNDS

COMPLETE WITH:
15 MINUTE SCOPE RAIL, BIPOD ADAPTOR,


OWNERS MANUAL, LIFETIME WARRANTY

Here are some other useful numbers for comparrison against a couplf of other popular calibers.


**the following info was borrowed from
by Jeff Quinn

July 15th, 2004
http://www.gunblast.com/ArmaLite_AR-30.htm

[align=left][/align][align=left]Chronographing the two factory loads at a distance of twelve feet from the muzzle proved that the available ammunition falls within the design parameters of the original military specifications. The Lapua 250 grain load clocked 2927 feet-per-second (fps), and the Black Hills 300 grain load averaged 2778 fps. With the very good ballistic coefficients of these bullets, the long range performance is excellent for dramatic terminal effect out to at least 1500 yards. Out to 1000 yards, the trajectories of the two bullets are pretty close, while the 300 grain Black Hills load has much greater energy at all ranges. Past 100 yards, the 300 grain bullet starts to really show its superiority, and is actually going faster than the 250 grain bullet at that point. Wind drift with the 300 grain bullet is also significantly less at all ranges past 400 yards. At 1500 yards, the 300 grain Match King has over 1230 foot-pounds of energy, while the 250 has only 776 foot-pounds of energy remaining. This is not to disparage the 250 grain load; it is still an awesome long range performer, but the 300 grain bullet is markedly superior out past 1000 yards. With recoil not being a factor in the AR-30, there is no advantage to using the lighter bullet. As can be seen in the following chart, the .308 Winchester and the .300 Winchester Magnum, which are two of the most popular precision long range rifle cartridges, are not even close in retained downrange energy.[/align][align=left]While the length and weight of the AR-30 does make for a large weapon, it carries very well, and the buttstock is easily removed for transport by pulling two retaining screws, if desired. The rifle is easy and comfortable to shoot from the bipod, a bench, or even standing offhand. It is really no heavier than some long range black powder rifles that I have fired.[/align][align=left]Functioning of the AR-30 was perfect. The big cartridges fed easily from the magazine, or just by dropping them singly into the ejection port while firing from the bench. Accuracy testing was done with two different loads; the 250 grain hollowpoint Scenar bullet load from Lapua, and the 300 grain Sierra Match King hollowpoint load from Black Hills. The Lapua ammo uses cases of that make, and the Black Hills ammo uses cases made by Norma of Sweden. Each is excellent brass. Both loads exhibited very good accuracy at 100 yards, shooting into less than five-eighths of an inch in a stout crosswind. No long range paper punching was tried, but I did shoot the rifle extensively at steel silhouettes of mule deer and black bear at distances of four hundred and six hundred yards. Hitting these life-size targets at this range was very easy using the rifle’s bipod.[/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left]While the length and weight of the AR-30 does make for a large weapon, it carries very well, and the buttstock is easily removed for transport by pulling two retaining screws, if desired. The rifle is easy and comfortable to shoot from the bipod, a bench, or even standing offhand. It is really no heavier than some long range black powder rifles that I have fired.[/align][align=left]Functioning of the AR-30 was perfect. The big cartridges fed easily from the magazine, or just by dropping them singly into the ejection port while firing from the bench. Accuracy testing was done with two different loads; the 250 grain hollowpoint Scenar bullet load from Lapua, and the 300 grain Sierra Match King hollowpoint load from Black Hills. The Lapua ammo uses cases of that make, and the Black Hills ammo uses cases made by Norma of Sweden. Each is excellent brass. Both loads exhibited very good accuracy at 100 yards, shooting into less than five-eighths of an inch in a stout crosswind. No long range paper punching was tried, but I did shoot the rifle extensively at steel silhouettes of mule deer and black bear at distances of four hundred and six hundred yards. Hitting these life-size targets at this range was very easy using the rifle’s bipod.[/align]




Hopefully this will give you some of the info tha tyou are looking fo ron ths .338 Caliber. me personally, I am a huge fan of it. I won't say that there are not other great calibers out there or that there isn't something better, but IMO this is tough to beat. Get one, you will really enjoy it.



kdvollmer

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

int the case that i do not reoad 338 lapua is much more difficult to find in factory loads in my area

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

A recent Field & Stream article (July or Aug.) did a comparison from 10 (or so) different rifles for "out of the box accuracy".
This may help determine some others, as an alternative...

The article pointed out, and I fully agree, every gun can react different to varying manufactured loads and bullet weights.
So home work with your new gun will be needed to figure this out!

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

I'd get a .300 RUM over a 7mm RUM, more popular and needs less barrel, though I'm unsure how the .308 VLD bullets compare with the 7mm....

but a .300 RUM with some 200gr would be a nice setup.

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

Thats a good choice. AccuBonds are also great. Don't think either come factory loaded...

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

Excuse me if this is hijacking the thread.

I have looked at the ballistics of the .300 Win Mag, .300 WSM, .300 Rem SAUM and the .300 RUM. Other than the power level III loads, I can't see a noticable difference in ballistics. I do see a big difference with the power level III loads but I wonder how much more those punish the shooter. Nothing comes for free. So, anyone that shoots those loads, can you tell me how they feel?

RE: good gun and caliber?
 

I like your idea of a 7MM. But then I am prejudice.

I also like your choice of the Rem Sendero. Out of the box it is a great shooter.

You might consider the .338 RUM since you want to shoot at extreme ranges and at game such as elk and moose.

But then the 7mm will do the trick as well.

If you can get them, I believe Wildcat offers 200 gr. 7mm VLD bullets