Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

Well My friend is looking at geting a Elk/Moose/ Rifle he has a 25 WSSM right now and that is his deer rifle buthe isreally Recoil shy like i meen really really shy he shot my other friends 300 WSM With Managed recoil,BOSS CR., And A Limb Saver Recoil pad and he said it kicked way too much for himhemaybe willbe taking100 yards shots up too 500 yards

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

Any rifle with alot of knockdown power is gonna kick. Maybe he should look into a 308 it not the most powerful round but it does shoot flat and would be accurate at 500 yds. A 30-06 doesnt have alot of recoil but but 500 yds might be a reach.

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

Another option might be a 7mmwin mag.
I have one with a Limbsaver recoil pad. My daughter shoots this gun with the Remington Managed Recoil loads. This greatly reduces the felt recoil of the 7mag load
Most of the practice can with the gun can be done with themanaged loads. When it gets near time to hunt, site in and hunt with the regular loads.
Your friend will most likely not feel the recoil during the hunt.

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

He needs to take up crochet. Seriously if that combo kicked too hard then he is in trouble. He might want to look at a 7mm-08, .308, or 338 Federal.

So a 308 is a good 500 yard elk and moose rifle but a 30-06 isn't?

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

I don't know, I bet those three would still kick more then the 300 WSM...

Theres not a chance that he will find a gun capable of killing elk at 500 yards that kicks less then that 300 WSM. Sorry.

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

Well, I would hate to see him go after such a grand beast flinching a bunch. Might just cause a bad injury. So first I would suggest he warm up to somethin'. The standard 30 cal's should work, 308, 30'06, 303 British and the like. I would keep him away from light rifles and remember to shoot as much as possible from the stand. Use hearing protection, place the stock in the proper place and just roll with the action. The old rounds will do in reasonable range. The bullets will fly much farther than they will serve as a good hunting tool.

I wouldn't take on a trip like that until he was confident.

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

Or a pointed stick

Poor Elk ..let him hunt in a Wolf area at least they'll find the wounded animal.

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

Are you serious?

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

He should stick to playing video games ortake uparchery, until his nuts drop.

Just my 2-cents,

WK

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

Managed recoil ammo, a boss, and a limbsaver. Yeah, I bet it'd kick less then the others without any of that stuff...

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

If he is that recoil shy just have him shoot a non-magnum round (.270, .308, .30-06, etc.) and limit his range. As the old saying goes, bullet placement trumps power.

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

7mm 08 and tell him to keep his shots to a realistic range. I can count on 1 finger how many elk &/or moose I have shot over 300 yards;). IMHO no need to be worrying about 400 and 500 shots on elk or moose in saskatchewan, especially since most shooters will not practice enough to be proficent at such ranges. I shoot a fair bit each year and consider 500 my max under optium conditions. Reality is even in the bald arse prairie hunting antelope or mulies i have been able to close the distance to be under 500 yards to get an easier poke. I prefer a short iron vs a long iron approach shot, so i defer to getting as close as possible to put it close to the pin!!

If he is buying over the counter ammo a 140gr barnes TSX or Nosler partition would do the trick. If reloading then 140-150 in either of these or similar bullets will work-lots of option as a reloader.

As far as recoil the 7mm 08 would be very similar maybe even slightly less then 25wsm! One of the easiest shooting carts.IE: thewife handles a 7 08 like a champbut for comparison sakes she won't touch one offwith the270.Not recoil shy, she's recoil scared!!!:D

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

I shoot a Weatherby ultralight in 338-06 A-square and it has less recoil than a remington 700 bdl in 30-06. Forget 400-500 yard shots, you better put your flame suit on if you're gonna talk like that here.

Here is a recoil calculator that calculates actual recoil in pounds, so you are comparing apples to apples.

http://www.huntamerica.com/recoil_calculator/

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

How old is your friend 6. If he can't take that kick he doesn't need to be shooting at live game.

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

Have him get a 7mm-08 or 308 in a standard weight or heavier rifle (stay away from the lightwieght guns)and put a limb-saver padon it. Those will do fine on elk out to 300 yds (or farther if he can do his part and he can handle some of the hotter loads like the Light-Magnums from Hornady). If he cann't handle these two rounds, he probably shouldn't go after elk.

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

The way I see it, considering your friend's inability to shoot a 300 WSM with all those recoil-defeating modifications, is that he has two choices:

A. Get an adequate elk-moose rifle, AND START SHOOTING IT A LOT SO HE CAN MASTER THE THING, (NOT from a benchrest, either!!) or:

B. Forget trying to shoot anything larger than deer. Limit shots at deer to 50 yards or less.

To do A., what he needs to do is start out with a stiff recoiler like a .375 H&H. Learn to shoot it. Then when he switches back to a .300 Mag., or a .338, it will feel like a popgun! To shoot a heavy recoiling rifle well, one has to JUST IMAGINE THATTHE TARGET IS AN ELEPHANT THAT IS GOING TO STOMP YOU IF YOU DON'T HOLD AND SQUEEZE WELL! That will let him get through the first box or so of ammo during practice! It's all down hill from there (PS: Moose are NOT all that hard to kill-a good .270 with a 150-grain Nosler Accubond or Partition bullet is all that's needed. That load'll kill elk too, but a big bull elk is HARDER to kill than a moose!)

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

I applaud your friend for not getting sucked into Mangnumitus.. Just tell him to go with the 7mm08 and forget about it.. Low recoil from even the light weight and will be enough for elk and moose..

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

There are a handful of cartridges that will kill elk and not recoil much, but he might have to limit his shots to more like 400 yards instead of 500 yards. Though I'd bet money he couldn't hit an elk at that range anyways based on what you've said about him, assuming he didn't decide elk hunting was too hard before then and quit.

Here are some cartridges I'd look at:

6.5X55 (handloaded with properly constructed 140 gr bullets)
6.5X284 (similar to 6.5X55 but with a little more power)
7mm-08 with 140gr bullets
260 Remington with 140 grain bullets

His 25WSSM will kill an elk if he uses the right bullet and limits his shots to reasonable ranges.

Or he could just take up archery hunting. There's nothing like getting close enough to a bugling bull elk to shoot it with a bow.

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

well if he's that recoil shy, I think big and fast are out of the decision making category. So big and slow is the only option IMO for elk/moose.

If a .30-06 is too big.....I'd lean towards the .338 federal, or .308.

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

Nobody has mentioned a 7x57 mauser yet?

Everything I have read usually advocates that at what ever range you are shooting at there should be at least 1000 foot pounds of energy left so the bullet had sufficient energy left to dump in to the animal and open the bullet correctly to deliver a quick killing shot. Most of the calibers here do not come anywhere near that at 400 yards if Im not mistaken. As a matter of fact I think with large animals like moose and elk they say 1500 lb feet is more appropriate.

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

PS- relaly he should shoot way more with a .22lr or something light that wont make him flinch......i mean isnt that what were referring to when we say kick/scared? nowdays I know a gun will kick and kick hard, but I dont flinch because if it, I pull the trigger and wait for the kick, when I was young I wasnt able to do this, but now I know how to control my body and ive ye to find my upper end of tolerance/shooting, hopefully that .458lott wont be too much.

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

To do A., what he needs to do is start out with a stiff recoiler like a .375 H&H. Learn to shoot it. Eldeguello doesn't the 375 H&H ment for like elphants and stuff like that and plus it will nock him on his ass everytime he shoots it so yah the 375 H&H is to much gun for moose and elk

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

Bigger bullets produce more recoil, and if they're going slow they won't do worth a darn at even moderately long distances. I think everyone else is right in recommending a cartridge that is moderately fast shooting moderately heavy bullets, like the 7mm-08.

For example, a 338 Federal shooting a 210 gr bullet at 2630fps has 21.9 ft lbs. of recoil and a.308 Win shooting a 180 gr bullet at 2610 fps has 17.5 ft lbs. of recoil, while a 7mm-08 shooting 140 gr bullets at 2850 fps only has 12.6 ft lbs. of recoil and a 6.5X284 shooting 140 gr bullets at 2920 fps only has 14.7 ft lbs of energy.

So I'm going to have to disagree that "big and slow" is the only way to go for elk and moose when someone is recoil shy. I wouldn't say it's the way to go at all. Especially when someone is wanting to shooting even moderately longer distances.

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

I honestly have to agree with bigbulls. If your friend can't handle the recoil from that 300WSM with all that recoil reducing gear on it, it would also be true that he couldn't even handle the recoil from a standard 30-06. Which I would consider as a minimum for moose. Yes, they can be taken with lesser cartridges like the 7-08, but from what I can assume, your 'friend' doesn't have the shooting/hunting experience to place one of these smaller bullets where it needs to be at the ranges you stated.
Eliminating recoil shyness and flinching can only be accomplished by a lot of practice and mental and physical control.
Also, IMO, all the game animals deserve our respect and need to be taken cleanly and dispatched quickly. This can only be done with a properly placed bullet with sufficient energy. Until your friend can do this, he better stick with shooting paper or deer with his 25WSSM.

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

[/quote]

Bigger bullets produce more recoil, and if they're going slow they won't do worth a darn at even moderately long distances. I think everyone else is right in recommending a cartridge that is moderately fast shooting moderately heavy bullets, like the 7mm-08.


So I'm going to have to disagree that "big and slow" is the only way to go for elk and moose when someone is recoil shy. I wouldn't say it's the way to go at all. Especially when someone is wanting to shooting even moderately longer distances.
[/quote]


Somebody forgot to tell the bufalo this after they were nearly made extinct by the 45/70...

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

Bigger bullets produce more recoil, and if they're going slow they won't do worth a darn at even moderately long distances. I think everyone else is right in recommending a cartridge that is moderately fast shooting moderately heavy bullets, like the 7mm-08.


So I'm going to have to disagree that "big and slow" is the only way to go for elk and moose when someone is recoil shy. I wouldn't say it's the way to go at all. Especially when someone is wanting to shooting even moderately longer distances.
[/quote]


Somebody forgot to tell the bufalo this after they were nearly made extinct by the 45/70... (I agree!)
[/quote]

Yeah, that doesnt really hold water. a lighter bullet will never retain as much energy as a heavier bullet. It's just physics. Let me put it this way. If you take a stone that weighs a pound and you throw it at a plate glass window it's going to go through it. If you take a pound of sand and you throw it at a plate glass window its going to , well just hit the window andbounce off. Mass X velocity equals energy.

Put another way what weighs more, five pounds of feathers or five pounds of bricks? Right they both weigh the same. Now, Which would you rather get hit in the head with?

There are trade offs of course, but generally speaking a heavier bullet is going to retain energy better than a lighter bullet. Of course that depends on the velocity with which it hits its intended target. Throw in there trajectory, wind drift etc and several hundred yards opens a pretty big window for mistakes. I won't go in to the particulars as you can look them up in anyreloading manual, but several feet can be the drift of lighter bullets in some of these marginal rounds mentioned here. Suffice to say that any well placed shot, at acceptable distances will kill almost any animal. Wamogo Bell killed many elephants with the 7X57 Mauser. That doesnt mean we should use it for Elk, just means it is capable in the right hunters hands that practices patience. o kill it but let it travel great distances andpossibly never be recovered. Many Guides and outfitters practice the "if you made it bleed we have filled our contract".

I would say at the distances you are espousing, Elk and moose should be hunted with a minimum 30-06 or larger. Yes a 308 will work but it can't get the heavier 165 to 180 grain bullets moving as fast as a 30-06. Get a heavy for caliber rifle (8-9 pounds with scope), that will soften the blow, Get it magnaported as that will help also, and just shoot the damn thing to the point where one gets comfortable wth it. What I tell shooters that I am teaching is The gun is loud, and it gives you a good push, but if you hold it correctly it will never hurt you, and you have to accept that. The hurting side of the gun is the other end. Don't be afraid of it and practice and you will overcome it. Sometimes a day at the range with an even larger caliber gun will give one the confidence necessary when they shoot the gun they will use.

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

7mm-08



)
150
SP
2650
2440
2230
2040
1860
1690
2340
1980
1660
1390
1150
950
+2.2
-9.2
-26.7
-54.3

30-06




(S)
165
BTSP
2800
2591
2392
2202
2020
1848
2873
2460
2097
1777
1495
1252
+1.8
-8.0
-23.3
-47.0

The 3006 with 15 grains more bullet weight retains over 300 pounds more energy at 500 yards. Critical at that distance. 1500 pound feet is recommended for elk and moose.

Additionally if I were going through the bother and expense of an Elk or Moose hunt, I would certainly do everything in my power to make sure that when the moment of truth came, I had enough gun and got the job done right off. No wounded animals, no chasing them over hill and dale, and no embarrassment of a wounded animal.

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballistics/

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

Tell your friend to stop being a *****... And if he is going to hunt big game then step up to the plate.
I wouldn't go after moose without nothing smaller than a .30 cal. magnum or larger.. You owe it to the moose..

RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun
 

Felt recoil can be tamed by a well fitted stock, among other things. And then shooting posture and technique is also key. Without those 2 basic things you can end up shooting uncomfortably with even moderate kicking loads.

A 30/06 in a well fitted 9.5 lb rifle with a good recoil pad should be not only ample gun (with the right bullet and load) but should also be pretty darn comfortable with proper technique and practice.

Or, how about a 6.5 X 55 with the Oryx bullet? That cartridge/bullet load may well be the ticket for the bump shy crowd.