salukipv1

I'd never want a .700 NE, but a 2,4,or 8 bore, might be an idea! I don't think so though, I saw one once not sure which one it was, but it shot a bullet of 1" diameter. crazy. Sounds like a .470 or .500 has much more of a place in modern hunting than .577 or .600 I read that even back then most of those PH used a 375-.458 then only in thick brush after a woulded beast did they grab a .577

SwampCollie

I understand being young and inquisitive. Don't let anyone hold it againest you. No one here was born with this sort of useless knowledge in our minds. Judgement comes from experience and experience comes from poor judgement.

I'll throw in my two cents on your question in a minute, but since you are young and inquisitive, I thought I might recommend some really interesting reading on just this topic. Reading that I enjoyed when I was younger (though it was hot off the presses then...some of it anyway), and still really enjoy today.

For the purposes of Ivory hunting, the most readily availble books to you are going to be written by Peter Hathway Capstick. He is the author of the Death in the Long Grass series (if you can call it that). I've found his books at Barnes and Noble, and they are online in paper back for a quite reasonable price. He also wrote a fair bit on ballistics in some of his books... especially the two he did on famous figures of Africana. If I recall, his writings on Karamojo Bell, Jim Southerland, Pondoro Taylor, John Boyes (one of my favorites, though not an ivory hunter per sea) and FC Selous all referenced Ivory guns at length. His last book, a biography of his friend Wally Johnson, got more involved with exactly what went in to ivory trade hunting... though again if memory serves me, Wally used the .375 as much as anything, and even the 9.3 Mauser and the .318.

Robert Ruark is another must read author. As you are young, The Old Man and the Boy is something every hunting youth should have read by the time he gets a learners permit to operate a vehical. Plenty of adults could use a refresher of the life lessons taught in that book as well. Horn of the Hunter, and Use Enough Gun are also must reads for the Africaphile.

Plenty of other authors have written on the topic, however, most of their books were only printed once or twice, and that was early to middle of the last century. Few are found on the open market, and they bring a price that rivals college textbooks (often in excess of $300 each). I could go on, but I'll get to your question:

I have only read about the .577 and .600. According to various sources (probably Capstick to be honest) there were only a handful (less than 30)of .577 NITROS ever made in the era of market ivory hunting (there was also a .577 black powder version, used by the likes of Arthur Neumann.. who was run through the middle by an elephant tusk and left for dead... but survived none the less). Apparently there were even LESS .600s... somewhere between 5 and 10 ever built in that time period. I suspect that Rigby, Blaser, Kreighoff or H&H would build you one now. Perhaps Dakota as well. Blasers will be the most affordable. I think I remember seeing a .470 for sale under $10,000, which for a double rifle is a bargain.

When you start reading Capstick a lot, you'll read in his later books his thoughts on "Taylor Knock Out Value", which was drawn up by Pondoro Taylor. Taylors "chart" so to speak, references the relative merit of a caliber in its ability to save a hunters life should he narrowly miss the brain of a rapidly approaching elephant. In essence, what are the chances that a bullet passing close to, but not through an elephants brain will "knock out" the elephant and save a man's life. Its built quite completely on theory, subjective opinon, and granted a fair amount of experience and close calls. In light of modern ballistic studies, its absurd to call such a study "scientific", but in the times it was regarded by some as gospel. Interesting background none the less. Taylor gave the .600 Nitro the highest possible score on his chart, with the .577 taking second. Capstick vastly favorted the .375 for just about everything. Nowadays, even the .600 Nitro has been trumped by Roy Weatherby's satalite/dinosaur/whale/anti-tank killing .460 Weatherby. Which is considered the most powerful shoulderfired sporting round ever conceived. It has been written that its almost too much for anything except elephants. I have fired one, both with and without the muzzlebrake, and though I have not had the opportunity to hunt elephant (yet) I would prefer to never fool with one of those things again. Especially the one without the muzzle brake.

My personal choice in a double rifle would be the .470 Nitro, as it is the only one I have personally fired. I will say that the recoil (in a stoutly built [read: heavy... 12+ pounds] rifle) is not much worse than your average magnum .50cal muzzleloader. I thought it was really more of a push than a kick.... though the concussion of the thing is akin to a shoulder fired missle. I shot the rifle four times, which in terms of total ammunition bill was over a half day's wage at the time. The experience was worth it.... not everyday you get that sort of opportunity. Much cheaper to shoot someone elses.

leben_sie_gut

Too bad more peopledon't have your attitude towards people wanting to learn about our sport, or we could just about stomp it out. [:@]

I don't think I'd ever have an urge to shoot a rifle along those lines, I've put a couple rounds through a .416 Rem before and it just about cured my urges.

salukipv1

I am very inquisitive to the curious george point, but I love to learn, just my nature, I think some guys are fine just walking through life and living with what comes along, maybe I'll change with time, but I don't plan to, I plan to hunt africa fairly soon, and more than once. I figure out the goal, then workout the details. Hopefully I'll have some photos to post on here next fall/winter. Thanks for teh reading suggestons, i read some great book not too long ago all about the big bores of africa etc..... "Dangerous game rifles" kinda bought it on a whim, and was it awesome, way more then expected from it. talks about everything from 300-700NE.

Swampdog

salukipv1,I once started a thread called "Caliber of the week" Hoping to enlighten people that did not know that much about the various rounds could learn .It started out O.K. but then I got a reprimand for not being "Politically correct" about my terminology rounds ,caliber all of that mess So I stopped it .You know I thought it would be fun and maybe some people would like it .Guess I was wrong If I can ever help out the inquiring mind please feel free to E- Mail me and I will try to share my limited knowledge with you .I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer but I ain't no idiot either.

ColoradoElk

If you are sold on a double, I would forget about the .577 and .600. The penetration of either is less than a .470 or .500 Nitro, they are quite heavy and ridiculously expensive to shoot. Butch Searcy began selling his PH model again, which is about as good as it get. Get the .470 nitro.

Good Luck, CE

longrifle1000

Why don't you use some "commonsense" and use the block user button. All you are doing is making yourself look like a jack.

CommonSense

Yes, and the boy wonder is some kind of genius? why are you tampering in matters that are none of your bees wax?

Maine Shooter

If you've got some personal issue keep it off the forums. I have yet to see any problems with this young fellow's inquisitive nature. I see much more "young" behavior by someone continually having nothing but negative and snide remarks in response to any postsalukipv1makes.

CommonSense

Oh, go about your business, you old fart.