30-06 Vs 308
 

Ok in reading the Big Game Thread there are way more votes for 30-06 than 308.. I just don't understand the obsession with the 06 and it's neckedown compadres... Yes they are great ballistacally and served well in both wars.. But the millatary switched to the 308.. What was the basis for the switch?. Personally I like the short action of the 308, 7mm-08, 260 and 243. Just curious on why you like the 06...

RE: 30-06 Vs 308
 

Six in one hand, half a dozen in the other.
Well what more do you want?

The military switches to other cartridges usually to allow the soldier to carry more ammunition that what they use to carry. Aside from all the political BS. A soldier can carry quite a bit more 308 rounds than they could a 30-06 and since most combat was fought at relatively close distances the extra power of the 30-06 simply wasn't needed in military applications. The 308 recoil is also lighter so a soldier can sustain accurate fire beter than he could with the 30-06.

You also have the advent of better powders, better bullets, etc... that make the modern 308 better than the 30-06 before these improvements in propellants

Basically what the military desides in the way of what cartridge they are going to usehas about zero correlationto what is useful in the hunting world. Take the 5.56 as an example. They switched form the .308 to the 5.56. Does that make the 5.56 a better big game round???????? Of course not.

RE: 30-06 Vs 308
 

Part of the preference might be related to the fact that there are a wider range of factory loads for the .30-06, from 55 gr.up to 220 gr., whereas I think the largest bullet you can get in a factory load for the .308 is a 180 gr.

RE: 30-06 Vs 308
 

I believe that the .308 is more efficient than the 30-06 because ofits smaller case volume.The 30-06 will always be better for heavier bullets though.

RE: 30-06 Vs 308
 

According to my handi dandy ballistic chart you are right there are lot more bullet weights for the 06.. But the 308 ranges from 110 - 200 grains.. But you don't hear of an 06 for a varmit weapon or target gun. Where you do as a 308????

RE: 30-06 Vs 308
 

see below

RE: 30-06 Vs 308
 

That's because the .308 is much more efficient because of the smaller case capacity. As a NRA high-power shooter, shooting the .308 was a no-brainer. Mainly because of the choice of bullets that I had. I could load the 125 grain BTHP's for200 yards, the 155 Palmas for300 yards and the 168's or 175's for600 yards. I could also put enough Varget in the case to make a compressed load for all of my bullets. I believe that if you need to make an accurate load, you should try and find a powder that will let you make a compressed load for whatever bullet you'll be using. It's very hard to do that with a 30-06 because of the much bigger case capacity.

RE: 30-06 Vs 308
 

That is why I am perplexed by the popularity of the 06 over the 308.. Seems to me that the 308 would be a more accurate round.

RE: 30-06 Vs 308
 

"Seems to me that the 308 would be a more accurate round."

All other things being equal, perhaps that is true, but the fact is neither all guns nor all shooters are equal. I expect that the greater portion (for most of us average shooters) of error lies with the shooter first, with the cartridge and firearm following after. I expect that most factory cartridges, with most factory firearms, in the hands of a competent shooter, will be quite sufficient for hunting applications.

RE: 30-06 Vs 308
 

When someone sees the two cartridges side by side, especially a new or uninformed hunter, they will almost invariably choose the 30-06 for deer hunting because of its size in comparison with the .308. While I know for a fact that either will do the job, most people will choose to go the "bigger is better" route. Either cartridge will be as accurate as one can make it, but the .308 is easier to make accurate, in my opinion.

RE: 30-06 Vs 308
 

The long actions have been around longer and are more powerful. So what if there's more -06 cartridge shooters than -08 cartridge shooters? Just shoot what you have and shoot it well.

RE: 30-06 Vs 308
 

The '06 has been around for over 100 yr's. That upstart .308 has onlybeen around for about 50 yr's or so. Folks are still getting used to it.:) Besides the '06 has always had a reputation for being accurate with a wide range of loads and bullet weights.

RE: 30-06 Vs 308
 

I love both these cartridge and have shot a zillion rounds through each. Big Bulls comments are pretty much on the money but it wasn't strictly about .308 being smaller than the /06 and thus a soldier could carry more...albeit not a great lot more. The .308 (or 7.62 Nato) was the result of a big political battle between the US and it's NATO allies after WW-2. Everyone realized it would sure be nice ifall of usshot the same ammo. That was the main consideration. But most countries had their own idea about which cartridge and caliber everyone should use. Some, including England, wanted to get away from .30 caliber altogether. But America was really hung up on .30 caliber. In the end we had our way with the compromise round of the .308. It's a smaller round than the /06, obviously, but it also has slightly less recoil and can be built into slightly smaller and lighter rifles if desired and the thing is built with a nice case design with suitable neck for machineguns. It's obviously a very nice high powered military rifle cartridge and everyone finally bought into the idea and so the 7.62 NATO was born. Shortly after the US twisted everyone's arm and convinced them to adopt our .308, Viet Nam came along andAmerica jumped ship and adopted the 5.56 as our rifle. Something of a doublecross to our allies but in the end I think the reasons made sense to most. But anyway...........

To claim the .308 will do anything the /06 will do simply flies in the face of facts. It won't and never will and the heavier the bullet, the more edge the 30/06 has. Where the .308 shines is with the medium and light weight bullets...which is what most people hunt with in it. The fact the factory doesn't load heavier bullets than the 180 should speak volumes about the .308s capabilities...or lack of.

The fact the 30/06 is over 100 years old does not diminish the simple fact that it has proven to be the best all around and most versatile cartridge designed and the vast multitude of cartridges running around today can really trace their ancestry back to the /06.............including the .308 itself. The .308 is little more than a slightlyshortened /06. I hope when the .308 is a 100 years old people won't be pointing at it and wondering why it's still around. The .308 carries on the legacy of the 30/06 and is spawning it's own series of very fine wildcats and new cartridges.

As I said in the beginning, I love them both. Perhaps the best way to think of the difference between them is the 30/06 is a cartridge you CAN go around the world with and have a fairly good chance atgetting home alive. Certainly it's way light for a lot of things but if one of usof had to try this, I don't think anyone would be reaching for their .308.

Happily this is not something any of us have to try. So the fact remains the .308 and the 30/06 are both superb rifle choices and I hope they are BOTH still here 100 years from now.:)

RE: 30-06 Vs 308
 

If you need the really heavy bullets like the 200 and 220 then the 30-06 will out perform the 308 because there is more room for powder. In the 308, the longer bullets have to be seated deeply robbing powder space. The differemce will start at bullets of 180 on up.

RE: 30-06 Vs 308
 

Isn't long range shooting competition done with 308's ?

RE: 30-06 Vs 308
 

The 30-06:
It is old,
It is great,
It has nostalgia,
It has a wider range of versatility,
It better handles the larger bullets that big game (not deer) deserve.

BTW, 308 was adopted by the military due to its shorter length cycling better in auto weaponry.
Humans by no means compare to big game. They kill easy. Thus gov't was simply matching tools to the job; IMHO they went too far with the 223, a 243 would have been much better.

RE: 30-06 Vs 308
 

The .308 is popular in many long range shooting competitions, Pat, but I wouldn't read a lot of meaning into that. Before the .308 came along, the 30/06 had already won almost everything there was to win so the .308 is never plowing new ground. The old /06 has been there and done that for about anything we can think of.

What we have to keep in mind when thinking about the .308 is the enormous boost in popularity ANY cartridge gets when it's adopted by the US Military. It's almost instant immortality status. Americans are still salivating over the old 45/70 cartridge our army once used. Plus the military is a huge sponsor and supporter of shooting competitions. As such, our military supplies free of charge tons of free ammunition for our military shooters. Prior to the .308, these soldiers got all the 30/06 ammo they could shoot. When the 7.62 Nato round came along, the /06 rifles disappeared and everyone was handed a .308 and all the .308 ammo they could shoot. So it naturally follows that this is going to be the new darling of shooting events.

And the effect of military adoption don't stop there. When the military picks a cartridge...other cartridges wither and die on the vine. The 300 Savage was a competitor for the same spot the .308 was awarded. Since the .308 was picked, the savage has almost died out...regardless of its merits. It's pretty much a doomed cartridge.

Same story with the 5.56/223 cartridge. The day this was adopted both the sweet little 222 and it's big brother the 222 Rem Magnum were doomed. Many shooters today have never even heard of the 222 Rem Magnum and wouldn't know it if they saw it...even if it's a very slightly better round than the 223 which has virtually terminated it.

Being adopted by the US Military is becoming the annointed one and normally carries the kiss of death to other cartridges.

The 30/40 Krag was something of an exception. It was a lousy rifle in many ways and whatever merits it and the cartridge ever had didn't much matter as none of them were widely used.

Two interesting exceptions have been the 30/06 and the .45 Auto. The 30/06 led tosuch a quantum leap in rifles and weapons that it will be around forever, I suspect.

The .45 Auto is really even more interesting story than the 30/06 IMHO. When the .45 was our military's sidearm, many people did nothing but bitch about it. Too much recoil. Small magazine capacity. Slow bullet with terrible trajectory. The guns felt "unnatural" and didn't point right.....yadda, yadda, yadda. The only concession anyone would grant the .45 auto was that it was damn good at stopping people.

Then along came the Barretta Model 92 in 9mm. This pistol should have shut up everyone who bellyached about the .45 auto. Many people expected all Model 1911's to be melted down and turned into manhole covers. Even America's police departments began rushing to the alter of BIG MAGAZINES. But very quickly the whiz kids began discovering that the 9mm lacked and will always lack the one thing that really matters in a gunfight. It's a piss poor people stopper. None of the rest of the crap really matters. A great percentage of our soldiers HATE the Model 92 and cry when they think about the good old 1911.

Rather than dying out, the .45 has in many ways come back stronger than ever! Heaven only knows how many variations of 45 automatics exist today. It is STILL the pistol to settle an argument fast.

Rather than the .45 dying and blowing away, I feel fairly safe in predicting it is the 9mm that is in danger. Either the .45 will return in some form or one of the several new contenders like the .40 and 10mm will supplant the 9mm. But I think it's living on borrowed time. The military would have already dumped it if they considered hand held weapons very important. Many police and government agencies have already dumped the 9.......and so the story goes on.

Some guns are just wonderfully eternal and both the .45 and 30/06 deserve the honor. Neither one will let you down.