shipping a gun question
 

Guys, or girls I guess, I have a quick question I hope someone can answer for me.

I am in the middle of doing a trade with someone through the mail. They sent me a money order and a copy of their dealers FFL paper work. My question is what EXACTLY do I need the FFL paperwork for? Do I need to show the post office so they can verify it is going to a registered dealer, or do I need to send it inside the package, or does it need to go on the package? My post office has never mailed a firearm before so they don't really know either.

I need to mail them later today so I need to know what to do with the paper work. I also need to get the same paperwork from my dealer because he is shipping me a gun as well.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Paul

RE: shipping a gun question
 

The FFL licence should be copied at least and you keep them for your records, and another copy in the box, in case the firearm is inspected. There is so many grey areas with this, its not funny. My FFL dealer says I have to bring the gun to him, and he keeps a copy of the FFL licence for his records, and he sends his FFL licence in the box to the recieving FFL, who keeps his licence. But I never bought that, but for the sake of simplicity, I have always did this.

But if you read carefully, you should be able to send the gun thru the PO, even though everyone of them in MD refuse. So basically do the best you can to get it to the recieving FFL. Any gun transported needs to have a licence with it.

RE: shipping a gun question
 

paul, here is a excellent source for your question.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/SupportFAQView.asp?faqid=1118

RE: shipping a gun question
 

You need to go to the BATF site and make sure that the dealer your sending it to is in business . It doesn't have to go in the package. Write File copy on it if not already don should you decide to include it. Type a letter and address it to the FFL with youir name and information and the serial # description and the transferee of this gun put it in thebox along with the gun. Make sure you insure it and write the serial number down on the insurance receipt.Make sure the gun is disassembled ..bolt out of the rifle . SHotgun doesn't matter. The FFL from our dealer should be sent in a separate envelope with a letter and payment for the gun in question. For more information go to the BATF site

https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/

RE: shipping a gun question
 

Thanks guys, so basically I just have the paper work for my records and to show the post office if they request it. I called my post office to see if they needed to inspect the package before I shipped it and they said no, I can close it up and bring it in.

My dealer isn't sure about the copy of the FFL either because they always do it dealer to dealer. They were not even aware you could ship any gun on your own. My post office didn't know it either until I made them look it up.

Amazing how many people don't know their own jobs.

Paul

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RE: shipping a gun question
 

I copy the FFL and keep it on file also I write a bill of sale and have it noterized then ship via UPS as stated before it is legal for an individal to ship a firearm to a ffl dealer, gunsmith,manufacturer etc. also I request that the copy of the FFL be signed in red ink chad

RE: shipping a gun question
 

I don't know what Michigan law requires. You can reefernce that on the NRA state gun laws site.

But to comply with Federal law, you keep that signed FFL copy for your records. Then you ship the gun to the FFL holder, and when he receives it, he will make the NICS telephone call, and if the buyer passes the check, the dealer will have the guy fill out the federal paperwork, and state stuff too, if any. Then the gun can be delivered to the buyer.

You MAY have to show the postal clerk, or the clerk at UPS/FEDEX (depending on how you ship) the signed FFL so they can verify that the gun is being shipped to the address of a licensed dealer, per federal law.

I believe you CAN mail long guns via USPS. I don't think the post office can legally refuse to accept a long gun for shipment to a LAWFUL (read FFL holder or manufacutrer) recipient.

RE: shipping a gun question
 

I shipped them already. What a PIA! It may be easy for some of you but I won't do it again. Simply not worth the hassle to me. And I agree the second time around would probably be less frustrating since I have a clue how to do it now, but still not worth the effort. It would have been much easier for someone to just come to my house, look at the gun/s, give me the money and everyone leaves happy. No paper work, no fee's, no postage or insurance. And no waiting;). Or for what I spent on shipping I think I could have traded the guns in to the local dealer and ended up with about the same outcome.

I had three guns to sell, one I sold out right to someone local. He drove down, looked at it, we chatted a little bit and he went home with a gun, I went to bed with $150 in my sock drawer. Then someone on here PM'd me with a pretty good deal on my 17 and A-5. He wanted to buy my 17 and scope outright and trade me a new in box rifle for my A-5. That is what I was asking for the 17 and scope and the rifle is of equal value to what I was asking for my A-5. Probably could have gotten more on gunbroker though from what I have seen.

Keep in mind I wanted to sell these local, so I did not figure in any extra cost to the guns I was selling, just what I thought they were worth.

So the deal for the other two guns meant that I had to ship two guns, and receive one. I said if someone purchased two guns I would throw in a double gun case. The guy buying my guns agreed to send me a money order for my 17, then I would ship the guns. So then I had to find out what was involved in that.

Talked to 3 different gun shops, and the post office, got different answers from all of them[:o]. Finally figured out what really needed to be done and the post office agreed to ship them for me. So then I had to find a box that these guns and this big gun case would fit in. Um, not happening I had to make one. I did find a shipping place (postal plus) that would pack it for me, but said they wouldn't touch it for another week or two because of how busy they were. So ended up getting a bunch of boxes from a U haul place and making my own box.


My original plan was to go to my gun shop and get a copy of their FFL and send it with the guns I was shipping. When he received the guns and my FFL he would box his up and send it out. Sounds simple, but hold on things are never that easy for me;).

I drive 20 miles to my gun store in a freakin' blizzard (was supposed to rain, not snow) and saw three wrecks on the way. I get to the gun store, which oddly enough is crowded in the middle of a weekday in a snow storm? Wait about half an hour or so to get waited on. And they didn't seem overly pleasant about the whole deal either, not mad, just like they could care less. Then I find out they will not give me a copy of their FFL, what they will do is mail it themselves to the guy that is shipping the gun to me. I can't have the copy and they know me, but they will send it to some dude they have never met?[>:]

And they won't send it until Monday, which is when he will receive my package. And I'm sure they won't over night it or send it priority mail like I would have. If they even remember to send it on Monday. And to top it off I had to pay for the transfer in advance, $35 and I don't even have the gun yet.

So now I drive back home, stopping at staples along the way to get some bubble wrap and to pack my gun up and ship them without the paper work I wanted to send with them. I see another wreck on the way home. I know I could have stayed home and done it the next day, but it wasn't that bad out when I left and I wanted to get them in the mail that afternoon.

I got the guys money order and paperwork from his FFL, put my stuff in the box and took it to the post office (this actually took a few hours). Over sized odd shaped box that weighed 32 lbs, $800 worth of insurance, tracking number and priority mail came to about $39 bucks.

So it cost me almost $100 bucks to ship two guns and receive one and I don't even know when I will get my gun? Not to mention the gas I used driving all over getting stuff and trying to figure what needed to be done. And the frustration. That is a hundred extra dollars I could have put towards a scope. Oh, and taking pictures of the guns, resizing them and posting them on the net.

While I don't think anyone got screwed, I certainly didn't think it out very well did I;). Probably wouldn't have been as bad if I was only shipping one gun though.

I feel better getting that rant off my chest now. Now it's time to go scope shopping:D.

Paul

RE: shipping a gun question
 

Oh, I will add that once the post office found out it was legal to ship a rifle they were no problem at all. Very helpful as a matter of fact. They did make me break down the guns though. I took the scope off the rifle, pulled the bolt out and removed the barrel from the shotgun. Then bubble wrapped all of it. I took a picture of it with my digital camera and showed it to them at the post office and they said that was perfect. I don't think they were going to check anyway to be honest.

Paul

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RE: shipping a gun question
 

The paper work they had said something about them being broken down or something like that so I complied, wasn't that big of a deal really.

I simply don't have the room to save boxes from all the stuff I buy. And when I got these I was actually living with someone and staying in one room. Now I live in a trailer but I still don't have the room to keep a bunch of gun boxes. I barely have room for the crap I have now;).

And even if I had saved the boxes for these it still wouldn't have helped me out in this situation, it would have cost me even more that way. I would have had to ship three packages instead of one, and the one still would have been the same size because it was the gun case. It was actually cheaper to send them all in one box that was kind of heavy compared to three large boxes.

I get what you mean though, for some reason it also seems to help the value of the gun if you still have the box from what I have seen. If I was the kind of guy to do a lot of trading on gunbroker or something I would for sure keep the boxes.

Well I need to get around and go pick me out a scope now.

Paul

RE: shipping a gun question
 

I too have had problems finding a box big enoungh to ship guns I found a simple solution if the buyer will pay the extra money to have the gun shipped in a hard case [which most will] I order a cheap hard plastic case from Cabelas, Natchez etc. when you recieve the case it is in a cardboard box just put the gun in the plastic case back in the cardboard box change the shipping label and problem solved chad

RE: shipping a gun question
 

A couple of years back, I sold some stuff on e-BAY (NOT guns, of course). It took me about three months to learn to charge enough extra for shipping - I wascoming out on the short end of the deal there for awhile!

RE: shipping a gun question
 

Oh, and it doesn't seem to end. I went scope shopping yesterday, didn't go well but I won't rant about that. I saw a few I might be interested in so I decided to cash the U.S Post Office money order the guy sent me for the .17 I sold.

These things are worthless! My local post office said they would be happy to cash it, but they don't have that kind of money ($300) and probably won't, they just don't pull that much in on a daily basis. My bank didn't want to touch it because they said they are easy to forge and they have been burned a few times recently on them.

I drive to the next town about 15 miles away to a bigger post office and wait in line for 15 minutes to find out they can't cash it either. Maybe at the end of the day if I come back. Sure, it's only 30 miles out of my way, what do I care? I finally got my bank to cash it, but they said they would treat it like a personal check, if it doesn't clear the money comes out of my account to cover it. Which means my rent will not get paid.

I did it anyway, and went and got a scope (for a gun I haven't even received yet). I probably shouldn't have though, I should have cashed it and sat on the money to make sure it cleared. Or maybe drove to Toledo to find a bigger post office? Just what a pain the A#@ this is. I have no reason to think the guy will screw me, but I have no reason to believe he won't either. I really don't know him from Adam.

I started to get really nervous earlier. There is a potential for me to really get screwed here. I could be out the 300 dollars, which would really be 600 bucks because I shipped the gun. I would be out the money, plus the gun. And I sent both my guns and maybe I will get the other in return, then again maybe I won't. Then I'm out that as well, plus all the postage and transfer fees. That is over $1500 dollars I could get screwed out of.

Even if this goes off without a hitch and the guy is as honest as I believe him to be I will still NEVER buy or sell a gun over the internet again. Just too much hassle and stress involved. I have enough stress in my life without this. For now on if you want to buy a gun from me we are doing it face to face with CASH or I will just keep it.

And this has absolutely nothing do with the guy I am trading with. So far he has been honest and prompt and we have shared emails and photos and he has helped me with some of the stuff I didn't understand. And he has excellent ratings on Ebay and Gunbroker. He has given me absolutely no reason to doubt or distrust him, and I am in now way implying that. I am just insecure and nervous is all. That is just who I am.

Paul

RE: shipping a gun question
 

Hello everyone. This is my first post on this site. I like this site alot! I am an FFL dealer. Anyone who can legally own a firearm can ship a legal firearm via the Post Office or private carrier such as UPS. There should be no markings of any kind saying what is inside. Ammo and guns cannot be shipped in the same box.Ammo must state on the outside of the box that it is small arms ammunition. All firearms must be shipped to an FFL dealer. They do not have to be broken down or the bolt shipped in another box or anything like that. The FFL the gun is being shipped to must be inside the package. When youship a gun to a dealer, keep a copy of his or her FFL for your records and keep it filed for 10 years, I think.You do not have to be a dealer to ship guns, only to recieve them. The dealer on the receiving end of the deal takes care of the background check or whatever that state's laws consist of. All handguns must be shipped next day air per BATF regs. There is a form at the Post Office that must be filled out when shipping handguns. I can't remember the form number at the moment and the Post Master will probally look at you like you have a third eye when you ask for it.The BATF has a website for people to check FFL's to make sure they are legit. This is not mandatory but I highly recomend it. It is way to easy to make a fake FFL. Hope this helps for anyone else that needs to ship one. Happy Shooting!

I almost forgot. All firearms must be shipped "adult signature required". I have problems with this when I get guns. If they are not sent this way and I am not home, they get left on my front porch in front of God and everybody! If one gets stolen that will anger the BATF gods and start a whole new pain in my butt I would rather not have.