Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

Just got this rifle for my sister, looked like decent gun to shoot deer with. The only thing is that the guy that sold it to me didn't know diddly squat about it. Kind of strange, but anyway. There are no markings on the barell about caliber type, only a serial number. The serial reads 93265, there is a small "A" I believe before the numbers.

Here are some pics of the rifle. If anyone knows what caliber it is I would appreciate it!

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

definently looks to be some type of Mauser....i never got around to learning enough about them to tell you what model, caliber it may be, or orgin it may be...but theres some mauser gurus around here that can help i bet...

i just carry the name ;) (called myself Mauser06 because the first gun i ever bought with my own money was a Mauser in 3006...)

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

I can not tell enough from your two pictures. The gun looks like a Parker-Hale???
I would take it to a gunsmith & ask him.

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

My money is on it being a arisaka type-99in 7.7 Jap.

The grind marks on the receiverand inletting of the ejector are a dead giveaway, not to mention the groove on the left side of the receiver, and odd ejection port shape.


edit: the timing marks on the barrel and reciver indicate the original barrel is still in place. The barrel should be chrome lined. There is also a chance that it might be a type-38 in 6.5x50, but from the looks of the parts, I'm pretty sure its a type-99.

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

Uploading new pics as I am typing. If it makes any difference, I tried dropping a .270 round head first through the top of the barell and the round was too small, casing would go down the barell.

Next I tried a .30-06 round and it stopped about 1/8" before the casing starts. Stops about where it does on my Rem. 742 in .30-06, still I know there could be other possibilities..

Just want to be absolutely sure I have the right ammo before I go off shooting this thing. Especially my sister. Thanks for all the help so far!

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

More pics:

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

That's a type 99.

It looks like its horribly hacked though. The bolt is all buggered up and rewelded- I'd worry about the the heat treatment being wrecked by the reweld job as the the sporterization wasn't done by someone who had much skill and probably even less knowledge. I'd have a gunsmith check it out and possibly do a chamber cast in case the chambering was modified as well.

Sorry that I couldn't give you better news[>:]

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

So these things came out in the 7.7 and possibly the 6.5, correct? I will have to have a smith look at it before I do anything with it. Thanks for the help though!:)

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

Yep 7.7 and 6.5, yours is a 7.7 if a .270 bullet will fit all the way into the muzzle.

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

I have one in 7mm Mauser, sporterized, shoots like a champ. YES it was built that way, check your history, Mexican Arisaka, that's all I'm sayin' :)

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

Yep, that looks like a 7.7 Jap to me, but the bolt is hacked up. Cross reference it to this sportered one (but don't buy it, as I am buying it next week, lol.)

http://www.williamlarkinmoore.com/product_details.asp?id=1680

The prewar ones were reknowned for their receiver strength, the late war ones were reknowned for their weak receivers. I would do a few pull string/vice shots before putting it to your shoulder. My grandfather hunted exclusively with a 7.7 Jap and made my uncle and father use them as well. I am planning on making two sporters out of two 7.7 Japs as we speak to give to them as gifts this year(and getting flamed bad at AR15.com for doing it too, funny reading http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=14&t=233345&page=1)

Apparently Hornady makes a good hunting round for it, and the ballistics for the round are good.

www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0037464215974a.shtml

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

Definitely an Arisaka. But what I like about the package is the vintage old Weaver KV scope. It wasn't a true variable in that it didn't go from the advertised 2.5 or 2.75 or 3 power on up to the 5 lower at the top ... it was one or the other. The smaller adjustment on the bolt side that is rearward and a bit smaller is the switch for the selecting the lower or the higher power .. but you couldn't go halfway and have say 3.75X... it was either or. I have a couple of them and they are really pretty nice scopes. The 2 I have are clear and distortion free although not as bright as some higher end scopes of today. But they are way brighter and better than my naked eye! Older Weavers like that one (in good shape) are a pretty good purchase for your a gun. Reliable, strong and pretty worry free. Both mine sport the post and crosshair reticle which I love for woods hunting.

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

I guess I don't understand.....Why would anyone buy a gun for someone else to hunt with when you don't even know what to feed it???....Let alone some obviously hacked military piece??

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

Earl, I say do your own thing and screw the fools over at AR15. They seem like a bunch of ignorant idiots anyway. Props to you for making customized guns.

8mm/06 - That is an old Weaver scope, well spotted! It is a fixed power one, might put it on a different gun to see if it holds "zero".

Pawildman - I had been waiting for you, there is always some idiot that makes some dumb comment on someone elses thread. Got nothing good to say? Then STFU.

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

Take off the rear side cover, it will unscrew. You'll find that you can change the power from a low of 2.5, 2.75 or 3 up to the high power of 5.
It's a DUAL power scope, not a real variable but I think it was Weaver's first entry into the field of scopes with more than one fixed power.
I'm sure you'll find some notation on it somewhere that says KV .
And some of the very early ones may not have even had the writing on it, so even if you can't find the writing, take off that rear side cover(smaller one) and turn it either direction while looking through the scope. The adjustment (under the cover cap) usually has an arrow on it with the power # indicated. Look through it, then try turning it. I think you'll be surprised and happy with the utility that you never knew it had!
Enjoy!

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

BTW, any gunsmith will be able to tell you it's caliber by trying to chamber a 7.7 or a 6.5 Japanese round. It might be necessary to have a chamber-cast done to fully determine it's chamber and condition.
If it was a 6.5 x 50 Japanese round when originally produced that doesn't mean that it is still spec-ed for that round. It could be shot out with a throat that is eroded, or it could have been re-cut to 6.5 X 257, a popular wildcat for the 6.5 japanese rifles- as it solved the problem of obtaining Japanese brass or having to size from ones own brass.
I can't remember if there were any common conversions for the 7.7 chamber.
I have an old chopped up Model 44 carbine whose bore is pretty rough and the throat is so eroded that it will chamber and fire 6.5 X 54 Mannlicher Schoenner cartridges. The rounds keyhole from 50 to 100 yards and accuracy sucks.
I have actually acquired another barrel in very good condition in the original 6.5 x 50 (not completely military original though,... it was originally a full length 6.5 Japanese barrel that was cut down to 20 inches, turned down a bit and then target crowned) I'm seriously thinking of having it's chamber recut to a different 6.5 chamber, probably 6.5 X 55, and use it as a cabin/truck gun.
If you have one of the older ones with quality workmanship and strength, it has an enormously strong action.
Ackley's tests of action strengths found the Arisaka to be remarkably bullet-proof (no pun intended).
During repeated test firing of a 6.5 arisaka whose chamber had been cut to fit a 30-06 round (yes that's right, the chamber accepted the round even though the bore size was still only .264") after repeated firing the .308 diameter powerful round through the 6.5 barrel until finally the barrel was sent downrange!!! The action was not damaged !!!!
In fact it is reported that on tests llike this they would often just re-barrel the action and continue testing. I'm reporting what I've read in more than a few written accounts.

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

Well...............A little touchy today, are we not? And guess what.....you're opinion of my opinion bothers me not at all.

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

If I could see the top of the receiver clearly, I could tell you if it was origonally a Type 77 (7.7 Jap) or Type 38 (6.5 Jap). As someone else said, it could have easily been rechambered though. At one time it was fairly popular to rechamber the 7.77's to 30-06. Although the weren't very accurate since you had a .308 bullet and a .311 barrel. The only safe way to tell the caliber is by a chamber cast.

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

Your rifle is a Japanese WWII army rifle. If it appears to be of around .30-caliber, it would have originally been chambered to fire the Japanese 7.7X58mm cartridge. If it is a smaller caliber, like around .26 it was originally a 6.5X50mm Japanese. This is provided no-one has rechamberedthe gun tousesome other cartridge. To find out for sure, take it to a reputable gunsmith and have it checked, both for chambering and headspace. It may be necessary to have a chamber cast made to guarantee that it is still chambered for one of theJapanese service rifle cartridge.

The 7.7X58mm Japanese is a pretty powerful cartridge, in the same class as the .303 British. If it is a 6.5X50mm, it is in the same class as the .260 Remington. Not quite as powerful. But either round is plenty for deer hunting!

Someone has done you the courtesy of mounting a scope on it for you. Both those old Weaver fixed-power scopes andd the Weaver mounts are excellent! I still use several rifles myself that have those old Weaver scopes on them. They still work well.

You can get ammo from GRAF'S. http://www.grafs.com/ammo/239

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

The Jap 7.7 was the second strongest military BA P.O. Ackley did distruction overloads on .The strongest was the 6.5 Arisaka! The 7.7 was the first chromed bore.A common conversion was setting the barrel back and rechambering for the .308 Win case necked up to take .311-.312 bullets.A 6.5 model can easily handle becoming a .260 Rem rechambered.The Japs built and delivered a bunch of 7x57 Arisakas to the Mexican Gov't and of course never got paid for them so they were cut off.You could get a used .308 win barrel from a gunsmith or new Adam's and Bennett from midway in .308 and live happily ever after with out a large investment...................Harold *by the way the grooves on the receiver were for a sliding bolt cover that rattled so was [lost] thrown away by troops usually.

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

Its deffinately a 99, only the 44's and 99's had the bolt cover groove and both the 99 and 44 were chambered for 7.7x58mm arisaka. From the serial number and the Nagoya arsenal mark the rifle would have been made sometime between 1939 and 1945 the serial number being 93,XXX and the rear sight appearing as the adjustable leaf type sight I'd suspect the rifle was probably made around 1941-42. granting that it was not rechambered, it will be 7.7 jap in caliber. not a bad find really just hope you didnt pay too much for it? since you will pay a premium for ammo. have fun

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

You're mistaken in two areas. First, the Type 38 DID have a dust cover groove.Second, the Type 44 was 6.5 caliber NOT 7.7.

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

nope bubba you got the 44 and 38 mixed up there

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

I know the 38 [6.5] has a bolt cover and the 44 wasissued toengineers and calvary troops but not as well balanced a weapon as the 38 carbines............... *I'm pretty sure the 44's were in 6.5 as well.The British bought lots of the 6.5's for use in fighting the Turks[Navy as well]TE Lawrence of Arabia.................Harold *the predicessor to the 38 had no cover[excuse the spelling no sleep]

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

the 99 (rifle) and 44 (Carbine) were supposed to replace the 38 when their production began in the late 1930's.

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

You're very mistaken. I have examples of 99's, 38's and 44's. The 44 was developed long before the 99 and the 7.7 caliber were developed. Also the 38 did have dust covers. At least all mine do!

Here's a few links you can learn more about Japanese rifles if you're interested. Notice the pictures and descriptions of the rifles.

http://members.shaw.ca/nambuworld/arisakas.htm

http://www.gunboards.com/sites/banzai/

A very good book for beginners that will give the history as well as calibers of Japanese rifles is Japanese Rifles or World War II by Duncan O. McCollum

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

oops you're right about the 44 and the 38 had a dust cover I goofed and mistook the a 38 as the 30.

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

No problem.

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

I have a 44, and it is a 6.5. Don't know if the 44's came in 7.7 also or not, but they definitely came in 6.5, at least one of them did!

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

If your not butchering a collector piece ,Timney used to make a nice replacement trigger for both models.....................Harold

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

As you can see in several of these photos, this Weaver scope has 2 removable covers on the bolt side of the rifle. The rearward smaller cap is the one for changing from the lower power to the higher power. The 2 KV's that I have both can change from the lower power of 3X to the high setting of 5X. Though there is a bit of a turn to get from the one setting to the other, there is no gradual increase from the 3X to the 5X, it becomes blurry as you leave the 3X setting and then clears up when you arrive at the end of the adjustment and get to the 5X. I leave mine on 5X unless I'm in a real tight spot with shots under 40 yards in the swamp. Then I prefer the lower setting with a little more field of view for picking out shots between the cedars.

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

My 44 was already butchered when I acquired it, and I considered trying to restore it for giggles, but when I started pricing the parts I'd need (and it was considerable) I said the heck with it. I prefer to make it a shooter for fun.
I could probably sell it as is for a couple hundred, but I'd rather spend $200.00 just to have a Japanese action as a hunting rifle.
The bolt was turned when I got it and the throat/chamber is eroded pretty bad, as I alluded to earlier I can chamber and shoot 6.5 X 54 MS rounds through it but the bore it self is also so rough that it isn't worth dealing with. I could sell the barrel as is with the original 44 rear sight and get some money. The front sight had been swapped out but it could be removed by a collector.
I also have acquired a 6.5 Arisaka barrel that was originally a long one, it has been cut to 20 ", turned to a sporter taper, and re-crowned. The bore is very good but I still need to cast the chamber to be sure what I have I got it off Ebay before they shut down their gun sales. I would probably re-cut the chamber to something with easily obtainable brass, like 6.5 X 55 (although I'm not sure of the longer Swede round fitting in the Japanese action).
I'm aware of the Timney with the safety, in fact I have it saved in my favorites on Midway ... they are currently priced at 74.99.

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

No Type 44's were ever made in 7.7.

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

The thing with going to a 6.5x55 is you would have to also alter the bolt face [larger] and perhaps widen the magazine well.Not really a big deal and I've seen Timney Arisaka triggers for less on E-Bay before.Iuse the 6.5x55 here in Canada for moose with 42gr /IMR 4350 and 160gr Hornady's I have yet to recover a slug.Deer can be penetrated lengthways great for jumpshooting them out of bedding areas! The .260 Rem should require simple rechambering and your good to go.Either way you can't lose.With that 20" pipe it will be pure poison on game in thick bush and a pleasure to carry.At least the 6.5 barrel will have the same thread size as the 7.7 on it now.Less piddling around for the gunsmith....................nice caliber........Harold

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

Since my 44 was already in 6.5 Arisaka I might not have to alter the bolt face much if at all ... maybe the extractor. The Arisaka 6.5 rim measures .466 across (Hornady book) while the Swede 6.5 round measures.480 (Speer book). The bolt face may need a tweak, but not like what would be needed if I was going from a 7.7 bolt face to the 6.5.

RE: Need Help ID-ing rifle and caliber..
 

Many a 6.5 Arisaka was rechambered to 6.5X.257 Roberts (.256 Spence Special). I don't believe a bolt-face alteration was required for this conversion. In addition, it could be rechambered to the standard 6.5X57mm Mauser round, which is very similar to the one made by necking up the .257 Roberts. The 6.5X57mm is a standard European factory cartridge.