CZ2506

I just finished a book called "Alaska Bear Tales" by Larry Kaniut. Seems a lot of the brown / grizzley / polar bears being killed in the '20's, '30's and '40's were shot with 30-40 Krags. I figured this was because there were a lot of surplus miitary rifles and ammo around at the time. But I've got to wonder if there were just as many 338's or 375's around, how many of the sourdoughs would have picked a 30-40 for a primary gun in bear country?

Speaking of the 30-40 Krag, I've got some questions about them but I'll post in a separate thread.

ipscshooter

What does it show about a slightly (3/100ths of an inch)smaller hole, with extra energy? Your statement above assumes that the .338 WM has more energy, but it's actually a couple hundred foot-pounds less than the .300 RUM.

I can understand Beartooth's sentiment about "heavier is better" when discussing the difference between using a 180 gr. solid out of a .303 British on elephants versus using a 500 gr. out of a .460 Weatherby. But when discussing the .300 RUM versus the .338 WM, we're only talking a 10-50 grain difference in bullet weight, and I don't believe that, with a properly constructed bullet, that amount of bullet weight would be significant, especially where the slightly lighter bullet is travelingquite a bit faster and with somewhat greater energy than the slightly heavier bullet.

So, KD, are you going to use that Lapua when you go? I doubt there'll be much debate about whether THAT is enough gun...

ShatoDavis

Its the age old lighter/faster vs. heavier/slower debate. I myself opt for the heavier/slower side myself. That being said I would say that the 300 ultra would certainly do the job. Everybody is getting their panties bunched on this thing, assuming that the guide was ordering the customer to buy a new rifle. I seriously doubt thats how it was said. I would say that he simply stated his preference. As said before, people go brown bear hunting every year with a bow.


I would say that you take a rifle that you are comfortable with. If you are comfortable taking the 338 great your guide will be happy. If not, then take the ultra as I'm quite certain that it will do the job. Your guide will cope I'm quite certain.

kdvollmer

To IPSCSHOOTER.
I thought about what you said right after I wrote that post, and I agree with you. Bigger bullet does not always mean more energy. I did assume that the .338 would have more energy when I wrote it. I do notdoubtthe stats that you are giving me. However, you also have to take velocity into consideration.If you increase the velocity of an object, and it weighs more, it will have more enrgy to when it strikes something. It is my thought and opinon, that if you can get a higher ammount of energy at a known distance that you might be better off using that cartridge, even if it is a little smaller. As far as the bullet weight between the 2 not making that much difference. Maybe not at the same velocity, but make one go faster, and it really can add more energy. Also need to figure at what distance are you figuring on shooting from. one smaller cartridge might have more evelocity and thus more energy say at 300 yds, but the other might catch it at 400-500.


To answer your question, as of right now, when I do get to go, the Rifle I will take will without a doubt be my .338 Lapua. It is a little heavy (weight wise ) to lug around, but, I have been told by many, that I won't have to worry about being underguned with it. I know, that isn't all there is to it, shot placement and all that. All I need is to know where I have to hit, within say 600 yds (I hope I don't have to shoot that far) and I am confident enough in the gun, and my comfort shooting it, ( I never go to the range and not shoot it, at least 40-60 rounds) to get that much done.

ipscshooter

Assuming the ballistics tables are reasonably accurate, the 200 gr. .300 RUM travels at greater velocity and has roughly 300 or so ft lbs more energy than either the 225 or 250 gr..338 WM from muzzle to 500 yards. I really believe that it'll get the job done with the right bullet.


Haha... Yeah, as much as that thing weighs, you better rent yourself a string of pack mules, so when one of them passes out from exhaustion, you'll have a few spares...


ShatoDavis: I don't think anybody has their "undies in a bunch". Seems to me folks, for the most part,are just trying to have a reasonable discussion of the issue.

ShatoDavis

ISPC,

I wasn't necessarilly refering to you at all. To be honest I didn't read all of the posts. I did see a few that seemed to be upset at the quide. Ieven remember someonecalling the guide "off his rocker" and one said"out in left field" etc. I was simply stating that we shouldn't jump to conclusions. If I was a brown bear quide and a potential client asked me what"my minimum" recommendation was, I would without hesitation say: "338 win". If that client further asked me if he/she should bringa 300 ultra or a 338 win or a 375 single shot as all three where in the gun cabinet. I would reply 338 win. thats not to say that either of the other two wouldn't do thejob it would just be my suggestion.

I apologize to anyone I offended with the "panties in a bunch" comment. On second thought no I don't. anyone offend by such a meaningless comment should lighten up.

kdvollmer

IPSC,
come on man, it weighs just over 14 lbs with all the goodies. A bit heavy, but doable. I carry more than that around right now in Iraq.

ipscshooter

I was joking... Hey, you in the service, or civilian job? I've got a brother in law who just got back from a civilian posting in Iraq. He spent a couple years running logistics for Halliburton's fuel trucks, trying to keepthe Hummers and Tanks running. Another brother in law (former police officer) is there trying to trainIraqi police forces.

kdvollmer

I am over here active Army. OUt here in the Anbar Provence, about 60 miles west of Ramadi.

I know you are just kidding around. But, hey, a little bit of pokin at each other seems to keep this discussion going. I know quite a bit about shooting and ballistics, but not everything. Everyday, I open this up and i might pick up a thing or two i didn't know, or just another way to look at shooting and hunting. Hopefully, I am able to put a little something out there for others to learn as well. For me, I learn about many other calibers,and their capabilities. hopefully for others, some of my understanding of balistics, or long range shooting can be of help. Whoknows.

ipscshooter

I think my brother in law who worked for Halliburton was based out of Mosul. Not sure though... My other brother in law, the police trainer, is working in Baghdad.

Thanks for your service. Keep your head down... I'm sure we're all looking forward to a story or two about how that Lapua Magnum works ona Brownie...