What sleep wildcat would you like to see in a factory chambering?
07-19-2007, 09:22 PM
#1
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 567
What sleep wildcat would you like to see in a factory chambering?
I just traded for a custom wildcat in a 25-308 aka 25 souper and it shoots great. I have to work up my own load data since none is available.
Why have no gun manufacturers chambered for this great round. It fills the short action gap between .243 ( factory loads at 100 grs) and .260(factory loads at 120 gr).The 308 case has been used for virtuallyeverything else. 243, 260, 7mm-08, 308, 338 fed, 358 with great success.
Anybody have any insight or experience this round?
Another sleeper wildcat is the 6.5/06 and 6.5 Gibbs
With the right marketing the 6.5 could havestolen the glory from the .270. Not bashing the .270 but the 6.5 can be loaded from 85 gr to 160 gr with outstanding bc and sd.
I guess the moral of this story is marketing is everything.
What would you like to see?
Why have no gun manufacturers chambered for this great round. It fills the short action gap between .243 ( factory loads at 100 grs) and .260(factory loads at 120 gr).The 308 case has been used for virtuallyeverything else. 243, 260, 7mm-08, 308, 338 fed, 358 with great success.
Anybody have any insight or experience this round?
Another sleeper wildcat is the 6.5/06 and 6.5 Gibbs
With the right marketing the 6.5 could havestolen the glory from the .270. Not bashing the .270 but the 6.5 can be loaded from 85 gr to 160 gr with outstanding bc and sd.
I guess the moral of this story is marketing is everything.
What would you like to see?
07-20-2007, 03:55 AM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: What sleep wildcat would you like to see in a factory chambering?
We had a semi-aside disscussion on this very round a few days ago on the .257 Roberts thread.
Personally, I am interested in seeing the data as it compares with other calibers around it. Thats just from a curiosity point of view.
However, even as a wildcatter myself (I dabble, don't take me too seriously here), I don't really see how or why a company would take on the financial burden of legitamizing such a thing. With the .243 and .260 right there by it, the performance is not really going to be enough of a difference to make folks give up what they have. The .25 WSSM, in my opinion was a pretty big flop (in fact, most of the WSSMs are/were, at least from a sales standpoint).
The most successful legitamized wildcats (lately) have been the 7-08 which came around 1980 (although that isn't really lately), the 260 in year 2000, and the .204 Ruger about the same time. All (especially the .204) are doing astounding well.
Most of the sucessful NEW cartridges today have come about from reinventing the wheel. The 300 WSM, which in my opinion is the most successful "new" round in a long time, was built off a completely new case. Not a wildcat, but a redesign of what is basically a .300 Dakota, which is built off the .404 Jeffries case. What that gave us was lighter, shorter rifles, with power in excess of a .30-06, and nearly a .300 WM. Enough for anything in NA, without being terribly too much for anything else.
The other bigtime success story is the .17 rimfires. Why? Because they are effective and cheap. They offer impressive accuracy, over longer than normal rimfire range (long range to me, but I'm a poor example), while being easy on the wallet both in the rifle and the ammo.
Lately, most of your hot sellers have been varmint rifles/calibers so I think the really "next big thing" will be something along the lines of a varmint rifle. Perhaps even a small sub-caliber. I'm suprised I haven't seen much in a sporting 5.7x28mm. But, middle to upper calibers haven't been selling all that hot. The 6.8mm for example. I haven't heard a thing on the 30 TC or even see an Icon yet. The 308 Marlin was supposed to be the next 30/30, but after it hit the market, I haven't heard much noise about it. Even the 338 Federal didn't really take off running and its a great round.
So, to sum it up, if a new cartridge is going to be successful, it either has to be radically different (like the 300WSM) or radicallyinexpensive (like the .17rimfires).
As to what wildcat I'd like to see brought in to the light.... I want play with some of those sub-caliber rimfires. Shave a few hairs and give me a .20 cal rimfire, or a .14 cal rimfire. I kindof glad to see the Mach IV come back, but I'm afraid its just riding the tails of the rimfires, Rem has to put it in an inexpensive package to get it in the hands of the masses.
Personally, I am interested in seeing the data as it compares with other calibers around it. Thats just from a curiosity point of view.
However, even as a wildcatter myself (I dabble, don't take me too seriously here), I don't really see how or why a company would take on the financial burden of legitamizing such a thing. With the .243 and .260 right there by it, the performance is not really going to be enough of a difference to make folks give up what they have. The .25 WSSM, in my opinion was a pretty big flop (in fact, most of the WSSMs are/were, at least from a sales standpoint).
The most successful legitamized wildcats (lately) have been the 7-08 which came around 1980 (although that isn't really lately), the 260 in year 2000, and the .204 Ruger about the same time. All (especially the .204) are doing astounding well.
Most of the sucessful NEW cartridges today have come about from reinventing the wheel. The 300 WSM, which in my opinion is the most successful "new" round in a long time, was built off a completely new case. Not a wildcat, but a redesign of what is basically a .300 Dakota, which is built off the .404 Jeffries case. What that gave us was lighter, shorter rifles, with power in excess of a .30-06, and nearly a .300 WM. Enough for anything in NA, without being terribly too much for anything else.
The other bigtime success story is the .17 rimfires. Why? Because they are effective and cheap. They offer impressive accuracy, over longer than normal rimfire range (long range to me, but I'm a poor example), while being easy on the wallet both in the rifle and the ammo.
Lately, most of your hot sellers have been varmint rifles/calibers so I think the really "next big thing" will be something along the lines of a varmint rifle. Perhaps even a small sub-caliber. I'm suprised I haven't seen much in a sporting 5.7x28mm. But, middle to upper calibers haven't been selling all that hot. The 6.8mm for example. I haven't heard a thing on the 30 TC or even see an Icon yet. The 308 Marlin was supposed to be the next 30/30, but after it hit the market, I haven't heard much noise about it. Even the 338 Federal didn't really take off running and its a great round.
So, to sum it up, if a new cartridge is going to be successful, it either has to be radically different (like the 300WSM) or radicallyinexpensive (like the .17rimfires).
As to what wildcat I'd like to see brought in to the light.... I want play with some of those sub-caliber rimfires. Shave a few hairs and give me a .20 cal rimfire, or a .14 cal rimfire. I kindof glad to see the Mach IV come back, but I'm afraid its just riding the tails of the rimfires, Rem has to put it in an inexpensive package to get it in the hands of the masses.
07-20-2007, 09:28 AM
#5
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,429
RE: What sleep wildcat would you like to see in a factory chambering?
the 20 VarTarg (vt) is an impressive varmint round. 22-250 ballistics using a lot less powder.But I would doubt a company would go to the trouble.
The 6.5-284 is a good one. It is semi legitamized now considering that you can buy brass that is head stamped correctly.
I would like to see 6.5-06 brass at the very least.
The 6.5-284 is a good one. It is semi legitamized now considering that you can buy brass that is head stamped correctly.
I would like to see 6.5-06 brass at the very least.
07-20-2007, 09:56 AM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,813
RE: What sleep wildcat would you like to see in a factory chambering?
The 25-308 has been around a very very long time! Lots and lots of shot out 243's have been rebored to 25 cal. to get them shooting again... Long ago i even thought about doing it to a shot out .243 that i have...
These days the 260 Rem. is so close, why bother going with 25 cal.??
DM
These days the 260 Rem. is so close, why bother going with 25 cal.??
DM
07-20-2007, 11:08 AM
#7
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
RE: What sleep wildcat would you like to see in a factory chambering?
I would like to see the 270-08 and the 358 ultra mag.
I really don't know why the 308 cartride isn't factory loaded just like the 30-06 is. IE... 25-06 and 25-08, 270 and 270-08, etc... etc...
I really don't know why the 308 cartride isn't factory loaded just like the 30-06 is. IE... 25-06 and 25-08, 270 and 270-08, etc... etc...
07-20-2007, 11:32 AM
#8
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: northeast, North Dakota
Posts: 226
RE: What sleep wildcat would you like to see in a factory chambering?
I think a .14 rimfire would be about the most useless thing the world has ever seen. I'd be comfortable shootinga grasshopper with it, but that about it.
07-20-2007, 11:50 AM
#9
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 567
RE: What sleep wildcat would you like to see in a factory chambering?
I agree with Swamp about the 25-08 not being necessary, but why did Big Green choose the 260 over the 257. The 6.5 mm is traditionally a European cal., while the 257 is more American (25-06, Bob, Roy, savage.)
I'll try to shoot over the chrono in the next few days. I am 117 hornady's right now.
By the way, my other favorite wildcat is my 6mm-06. I can use 240 Roy load data for it.
I'll try to shoot over the chrono in the next few days. I am 117 hornady's right now.
By the way, my other favorite wildcat is my 6mm-06. I can use 240 Roy load data for it.
07-20-2007, 12:24 PM
#10
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 375
RE: What sleep wildcat would you like to see in a factory chambering?
6mm-284
6.5 284
The 284 is the limit of the short action and I would bet can effectively do anything the 6mm-06 can without burning the barrel out. 6'06 is a proven barrel burner
6.5 284
The 284 is the limit of the short action and I would bet can effectively do anything the 6mm-06 can without burning the barrel out. 6'06 is a proven barrel burner