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7.62x39
now ive heard that the 7.62 is basically the same as a .308..but i dont think it is..its the same bullet diameter correct?..or is altogether different.
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RE: 7.62x39
The ONLY thing similar is the bullet diameter. The .308 (7.62X51) outperforms the 7.62X39 in every category. Faster, flatter, more powerful, and WAY more accurate. You can check out ballistics tables at all of the major ammo manufacturers' websites. Remington, Winchester and Federal all have ballistics tables. The 7.62X39 is closer in performance to the .30-30.
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RE: 7.62x39
The 7.62x39 is even different in diameter also. Its around .310" while a 308 is .308."
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RE: 7.62x39
It only has two things in common, it is a centerfire and it is 30 caliber.
I think orginally it was a russian cartridge. Think more like semi auto 30-30 cartridge, and then the 30-30 is even better because it can be had in heavier bullets. Paul |
RE: 7.62x39
Origionally a Russian cartridge stolen from the Nazi designed 8mmx33 along with the AK47 design from the german assault rifle .As expected German quality excedes Slavic crudity..........Harold
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RE: 7.62x39
Thespeed of the 7.62x39 and the 30-30 are both around 2000 ft/sec. How do I know this? I load both rounds and have put them through a chrono.(1980 ft/sec). The .308 is around 1000 ft/sec faster. This gives it much better hitting power. The .308 is far superior in accuracy and why it is the sniper's choice.
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RE: 7.62x39
ya but waht about the 7.62x51..is that the same as the .308 then?
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RE: 7.62x39
7.62x51 is the NATO term for the .308 Win, it's like they call the .223 Rem the 5.56 NATO.
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RE: 7.62x39
However the 5.56 nato and the .223 are different. I would have to check to see if the same thing would apply to a .308. I know the bullets and velocities would be different going from a nato round to hunting bullet.
7.62X51 Wikipedia 5.56X45 NATO Wikipedia That was pretty hard[&o]. Paul |
RE: 7.62x39
I find that the 7.62X39mm is essentially a short-range proposition, in the same class as a .30/30. It is NOT, however, an inherently inaccurate cartride. It is chambered in many arms that are pretty crude and imprecise, and NO cartridge can perform well in such contraptions. The SKS is pretty bad accuracy-wise, and the AK's have none at all. However, please note that the PPC rounds are based on the same case.
If one handloads, it is not necessary to limit the round to 122-130 grain bullets. I have a handload that gives a 150-grain bullet 2300 FPS MV from an 18"-barreled CZ 527 with decent accuracy, and one that fires the Speer 180-grain round-nose at 2000 FPS from the same rifle. In addition, in rifles like the CZ 527, Mark X Mini-Mauser, or other front-locking bolt actions, it is possible to get quite good accuracy out of the 7.62X39mm. But there is no way that this little cartridge can compare to the 7.62X51mm NATO/.308 Winchester!  From the SPECIFICATIONS standpoint, the Russian 7.62mm 's are both (7.62X39mm & 7.62X54Rmm) true ".30"calibers, in that their bore diameters are nominally.30", and the grooves are supposed to be .005" deep, giving a groove diameter of .310", whereas the 7.62 NATO has a bore of .30" and a groove .004" deep, for .308" groove. However, many Russian rifles were made so sloppy that land diameter was often .31" or more, and groove sometimes was as big as .314"-.315". Mt CZ 527 has a groove of .311" (I slugged it), but it shoots .308" bullets just fine! As you can see above. |
RE: 7.62x39
ORIGINAL: whitetaildreamer Thespeed of the 7.62x39 and the 30-30 are both around 2000 ft/sec. How do I know this? I load both rounds and have put them through a chrono.(1980 ft/sec). The .308 is around 1000 ft/sec faster. This gives it much better hitting power. The .308 is far superior in accuracy and why it is the sniper's choice. also the 7.62 being the snipers choice has alot more to do with logistics than its accuracy. I think if a sniper actually had a choice he would probably opt for a 50 and for light work a 300 win mag. Im also curious how everyone knows the 7.62x39mm is infact an innaccurate cartridge?????? please tell me id like to know .... is it because you've only seen it shot from innaccurate AK's and SKS'?? before ya go flappin you fingers and typing something you know nothing about you might try the 7.62x39mm in a bolt action you will be quite surprised just how accurate it actually is..... |
RE: 7.62x39
HighDesertWolf,I did not say that the 7.62x39 was inaccurate but that the .308 is much more accurate. Perhaps that was too general a statement and I should have stated, "at extended ranges". Accuracy has much more to do with the shooter and the gun than the size of the round. I will agree with you that at shorter ranges of 100, 200 yards, the 7.62x39 can be as accurate as any round when delivered by a quality marksman with a quality gun. But with that said, you can not compare the 7.62x39 to the .308 at extended ranges of 400, 500 yards or more. The two are not even in the same league.
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RE: 7.62x39
My "inaccurate" AK shot a group I could cover with my finger this week. Granted it is not a military version, but a Saiga chambered for .223. 7.62X39 gets a bad rap from folks using cheap ammo in rifles that were not designed for accuracy in the first place. Also, it is an intermediate range round to begin with, as the ballistics get pretty dismal out past 250. The Wolf ammo I used this week in 7.62X39 was worse than any other ammo I have ever used, it was all over the paper, and many rounds had a bad primer. Also, my barrel looked like that of a muzzleloader after only a few rounds, so I have my doubts about it being non-corrosive as well. Maybe the demands placed on the ammunition industry lately have caused the dip in quality. I know Remington makes cor-lokt in this caliber, so I'll try that next. I don't expect SMOA out of the rifle I am using, but I expect the performance to pick up with better ammo.
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RE: 7.62x39
My siaga 7.62x39 was the biggest most innacurate POS I have ever owned. I don't think you could hit the broad side of a barn, from inside the barn! I traded it for a marlin .22 and some paintball crap.
I did have an SKS that was fairly accurate with premium ammo. And I have seen bolt actions shoot this round very well. It's not really the cartridge but rather the sloppy guns it was designed to be used in. They were built to function, not be really accurate weapons. Paul |
RE: 7.62x39
ORIGINAL: BigTiny My "inaccurate" AK shot a group I could cover with my finger this week. Granted it is not a military version, but a Saiga chambered for .223. 7.62X39 gets a bad rap from folks using cheap ammo in rifles that were not designed for accuracy in the first place. Also, it is an intermediate range round to begin with, as the ballistics get pretty dismal out past 250. The Wolf ammo I used this week in 7.62X39 was worse than any other ammo I have ever used, it was all over the paper, and many rounds had a bad primer. Also, my barrel looked like that of a muzzleloader after only a few rounds, so I have my doubts about it being non-corrosive as well. Maybe the demands placed on the ammunition industry lately have caused the dip in quality. I know Remington makes cor-lokt in this caliber, so I'll try that next. I don't expect SMOA out of the rifle I am using, but I expect the performance to pick up with better ammo. at whay kind of range? 25 feet?;) |
RE: 7.62x39
ORIGINAL: whitetaildreamer HighDesertWolf,I did not say that the 7.62x39 was inaccurate but that the .308 is much more accurate. Perhaps that was too general a statement and I should have stated, "at extended ranges". Accuracy has much more to do with the shooter and the gun than the size of the round. I will agree with you that at shorter ranges of 100, 200 yards, the 7.62x39 can be as accurate as any round when delivered by a quality marksman with a quality gun. But with that said, you can not compare the 7.62x39 to the .308 at extended ranges of 400, 500 yards or more. The two are not even in the same league. |
RE: 7.62x39
Np HighDesertWolf. As my grandfather used to say, rest his soul, "it's not the gun it's the gunner."But with someof the surplus forgien guns the actions are sometomes sloppy and I think you are lucky if you get a tight one. This could be the problem that some are having with the accuacy of their guns.
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RE: 7.62x39
ORIGINAL: HighDesertWolf ORIGINAL: BigTiny My "inaccurate" AK shot a group I could cover with my finger this week. Granted it is not a military version, but a Saiga chambered for .223. 7.62X39 gets a bad rap from folks using cheap ammo in rifles that were not designed for accuracy in the first place. Also, it is an intermediate range round to begin with, as the ballistics get pretty dismal out past 250. The Wolf ammo I used this week in 7.62X39 was worse than any other ammo I have ever used, it was all over the paper, and many rounds had a bad primer. Also, my barrel looked like that of a muzzleloader after only a few rounds, so I have my doubts about it being non-corrosive as well. Maybe the demands placed on the ammunition industry lately have caused the dip in quality. I know Remington makes cor-lokt in this caliber, so I'll try that next. I don't expect SMOA out of the rifle I am using, but I expect the performance to pick up with better ammo. at whay kind of range? 25 feet?;) I knew I'd get somebody with that one!:) |
RE: 7.62x39
I hunt deer with 7.62x39 outta a mini mauser. I know the 308win has more speed power but it also has alot more recoil. I don't shoot deer over 250yards, usually don't shoot them over 250ft so I don't mind slower, weaker, soft kicking round one bit.
As a side note even with today's crazy ammo prices the 7.62x39 is still at most 5bucks a box of 20, My rifle will shoot that box of 20 into a 2inch group @ 100yds any day of the week. So you won't hear a complaint outta me! |
RE: 7.62x39
yeah, any one thinking a 7.62X39 isn't accurate or that it cant put a deer down with one shot has some thing to learn.
i have these in 7.62X39 SKS....................may be 4'' group never hunted with it mini-30...............at best 2'' 2 deer ,but i was very close AR-15................ less than 1'' taken several deer encore 24''.........less than 1'' 1 deer@ 200 yd encorepistol 10''..less than 1'', have shot it to two hundred yd 2'' group 5 shots |
RE: 7.62x39
You cant compare apples to oranges, first off, no the A/K47 was not a copy of the MP44"Sturmgewehr", totally different operating princaples, the A/k is just under 2 1/2" shorter, weighs just over 1 1/2 lbs less, shoots 50fps faster and 100 rds/min rate of firethan the MP44.What some of you call slop, is what makes the A/K series of weapons so unbeleivably reliable, you can dunk it in a mud puddle, put it up for weeks, kick the bolt open and fire it.Look at the length of service compared to any other small arms, and the number of nations still useing it today! if it was so inaccurate and unreliable it wouldnt have lasted near as long, and there would be a bunch of Marine's and soldiers still alive today. The cartrige was designed for close combat, the days of shooting an enemy at 4 to 800yds was over in WWI, a soldier can fire this cartrige with less recoil and carry twice as much ammo. That is the same reason the M-16 was developed and put into service in Viet Nam, unfortunatly the M-16 was built with very tight tollorences, instead of SLOP, so it jammed every time it got dirty. As far as accuracy, I have a Romainian A/K that will group 4" at 250yds and just over 1" at 100yds, also killed deer and hogs with it. It also is kept beside the bed, if I need to get up in the middle of the night, that is my first go to weapon of choice!, some people need to do a little research before commenting on what they trully dont know nothing about!!.
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RE: 7.62x39
"The cartrige was designed for close combat, the days of shooting an enemy at 4 to 800yds was over in WWI, a soldier can fire this cartrige with less recoil and carry twice as much ammo. That is the same reason the M-16 was developed and put into service in Viet Nam, unfortunatly the M-16 was built with very tight tollorences, instead of SLOP, so it jammed every time it got dirty"
The AK's basic usefulness is very much dependent upon the tactics it is used with. It is a short-range, spray and pray area weapon (yes, some of them may be more accurate than the ones I tested in Viet-Nam) useful for massed infantry assaults where it is more important to make the enemy keep their heads down in their holes than to actually HIT THEM with a bullet! They are, as a whole, not too suitable forengaging point targets at any distance. I have been shot at by Charlie using AK's at ranges over 300 meters in the Delta, and none of the bullets came any closer than 6 feet or so. Yes, I admit, Charlie didn't get much in the way of basic rifle marksmanship training, IF ANY! Since I at the time had my trustyM14, Charlie was at a distinct disadvantage. The uesfulness of long range accuracy did not disappear at the end of WWI! In fact, in Irag and Afghanistan, many old M14's have been trotted out, not to mention newer, more sophisticated sniper weapons up to .50 BMG in caliber, just because the M-16 did not cut the mustard. The ranges were too long! So the usefuness of the AK vs weapons that are accurate at longer ranges is very much dependent upon whose battle you choose tofight. If we had ever been forced into fighting the Soviets' motorized infantry/tank battles in Europe, there's no doubt that their AK would have given them a certain advantage. But even the Soviets eventually made the mistake of adopting a .22 caliber round to replace the 7.62X39mm for the AK. |
RE: 7.62x39
my biggest challenge to great accuracy was finding the right bullet.my most accurate loads are with 2 different bullets and 3 different powders
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RE: 7.62x39
ORIGINAL: cataway my biggest challenge to great accuracy was finding the right bullet.my most accurate loads are with 2 different bullets and 3 different powders |
RE: 7.62x39
the AR 15 load is a hornady bullet ,its alittle hard to get ,its a 123 gr V-MAX part # 31442,i have only found it in one mail order catalog, Graf & Sons, for my gun the OAL is 2.283, or as long as the clip will allow.
powder is H335 31.5 gr. winchester brass, Fed 210 primers. the mini-30 likes this load as well ,but a shorter oal, (its a mini 30, i dont expect much from it ) the encore rifle has a preference for AA 2460 power and sierra 125gr bullets the encore pistol likes a sierra 125 gr fnhp bullet made for the 30-30 # 2020 ,the bullet set out as far as it can, the base of the bullet is in the brass about an1/8'' the power is H4198 a full case of it ,its a very hot load, i would not dare try it in any other gun. its what this gun likes ,and its a tack driver |
RE: 7.62x39
ORIGINAL: eldeguello "The cartrige was designed for close combat, the days of shooting an enemy at 4 to 800yds was over in WWI, a soldier can fire this cartrige with less recoil and carry twice as much ammo. That is the same reason the M-16 was developed and put into service in Viet Nam, unfortunatly the M-16 was built with very tight tollorences, instead of SLOP, so it jammed every time it got dirty" The AK's basic usefulness is very much dependent upon the tactics it is used with. It is a short-range, spray and pray area weapon (yes, some of them may be more accurate than the ones I tested in Viet-Nam) useful for massed infantry assaults where it is more important to make the enemy keep their heads down in their holes than to actually HIT THEM with a bullet! They are, as a whole, not too suitable forengaging point targets at any distance. I have been shot at by Charlie using AK's at ranges over 300 meters in the Delta, and none of the bullets came any closer than 6 feet or so. Yes, I admit, Charlie didn't get much in the way of basic rifle marksmanship training, IF ANY! Since I at the time had my trustyM14, Charlie was at a distinct disadvantage. The uesfulness of long range accuracy did not disappear at the end of WWI! In fact, in Irag and Afghanistan, many old M14's have been trotted out, not to mention newer, more sophisticated sniper weapons up to .50 BMG in caliber, just because the M-16 did not cut the mustard. The ranges were too long! So the usefuness of the AK vs weapons that are accurate at longer ranges is very much dependent upon whose battle you choose tofight. If we had ever been forced into fighting the Soviets' motorized infantry/tank battles in Europe, there's no doubt that their AK would have given them a certain advantage. But even the Soviets eventually made the mistake of adopting a .22 caliber round to replace the 7.62X39mm for the AK. My dad is a Marine he was in Da nang from 66' to 67' he was a forward observer for 1/10 but he was runnin around the jungle with 1/1. He loved his trusty M-14, he's glad he never had to diddle with a M-16. |
RE: 7.62x39
ORIGINAL: cataway the AR 15 load is a hornady bullet ,its alittle hard to get ,its a 123 gr V-MAX part # 31442,i have only found it in one mail order catalog, Graf & Sons, for my gun the OAL is 2.283, or as long as the clip will allow. powder is H335 31.5 gr. winchester brass, Fed 210 primers. the mini-30 likes this load as well ,but a shorter oal, (its a mini 30, i dont expect much from it ) the encore rifle has a preference for AA 2460 power and sierra 125gr bullets the encore pistol likes a sierra 125 gr fnhp bullet made for the 30-30 # 2020 ,the bullet set out as far as it can, the base of the bullet is in the brass about an1/8'' the power is H4198 a full case of it ,its a very hot load, i would not dare try it in any other gun. its what this gun likes ,and its a tack driver |
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