POLICE TOOK MY GUNS.....ILLEGALLY....PLEASE HELP
04-16-2007, 12:54 PM
#41
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 10,277
RE: POLICE TOOK MY GUNS.....ILLEGALLY....PLEASE HELP
This is very confusing to me. In other areas such as federally funded health research, there is only an investigation if someone makes very clear statements about a current desire to harm themselves or others. And I would assume that guns could only be taken after some sort of due process that demonstrates that the person is actually a danger.
I agree with a few of the more rational folks here. This is no time for monday morning quarterbacking and raking the guy over the coals for what he shouldn't have done. I can only second the recommendation of some by urging you to contact an attorney who may have some experience in this matter. You might even consider contacting some of your pro-gun state representatives or congressmen.
I really consider this to be an important issue. The simple fact of the matter is that a lot of people could be diagnosed as suffering depression and MIGHT, under extreme circumstances, cause harm. I daresay, that if such circumstances were universally a just cause for confiscating someone's guns, then a lot of the HNI members here would have to turn to bow hunting.
I agree with a few of the more rational folks here. This is no time for monday morning quarterbacking and raking the guy over the coals for what he shouldn't have done. I can only second the recommendation of some by urging you to contact an attorney who may have some experience in this matter. You might even consider contacting some of your pro-gun state representatives or congressmen.
I really consider this to be an important issue. The simple fact of the matter is that a lot of people could be diagnosed as suffering depression and MIGHT, under extreme circumstances, cause harm. I daresay, that if such circumstances were universally a just cause for confiscating someone's guns, then a lot of the HNI members here would have to turn to bow hunting.
04-16-2007, 03:55 PM
#42
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: POLICE TOOK MY GUNS.....ILLEGALLY....PLEASE HELP
I think your biggest problem is looking at this like they "took" your guns. When in reality you gave them up. They did not break the law or your constitutional rights by barging into your house and taking your guns against your will. You gave them permission to remove them for your own safety. Now you probably have the burden of proof to get them back.
You really need a lawyer dude. I didn't think about a state rep, that probably wouldn't hurt either.
I would be careful about not getting to keyed up and emotional about this. If you let this get the better of you and lose your temper it will only hurt your case. At this point you may be better off letting someone else handle it.
Paul
You really need a lawyer dude. I didn't think about a state rep, that probably wouldn't hurt either.
I would be careful about not getting to keyed up and emotional about this. If you let this get the better of you and lose your temper it will only hurt your case. At this point you may be better off letting someone else handle it.
Paul
04-16-2007, 05:28 PM
#43
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: a van down by the river
Posts: 8,939
RE: POLICE TOOK MY GUNS.....ILLEGALLY....PLEASE HELP
Contact an attorney. With a little luck, they will be able to solve your problems with a persuasive phone call or a letter. Maybe they are acting within the law, maybe they are not, but it doesn't hurt to get a professional opinion.
No way would I lay down and buy new gunsif my rights had been violated. Laying down just encourages the behavior and makes the violator bolder.
No way would I lay down and buy new gunsif my rights had been violated. Laying down just encourages the behavior and makes the violator bolder.
04-17-2007, 07:09 AM
#44
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 549
RE: POLICE TOOK MY GUNS.....ILLEGALLY....PLEASE HELP
In todays world people need to pay attention to what other people are saying. If you told me you might hurt someone or hurt yourself, hell ya you have to do a phsyc test and I'd probally take your guns too. Doing their job the police might feel they saved someone's life or several lives. Virginia Tech I bet they wish someone had put that punk in phsyc eval.
04-17-2007, 07:33 AM
#45
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 10,277
RE: POLICE TOOK MY GUNS.....ILLEGALLY....PLEASE HELP
Well, then they better start carting off HNI members because there are a lot of folks here who seem much less stable than the guy who started this thread[:-]
04-18-2007, 04:23 PM
#46
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 294
RE: POLICE TOOK MY GUNS.....ILLEGALLY....PLEASE HELP
ORIGINAL: cherokee_outfitters
In todays world people need to pay attention to what other people are saying. If you told me you might hurt someone or hurt yourself, hell ya you have to do a phsyc test and I'd probally take your guns too. Doing their job the police might feel they saved someone's life or several lives. Virginia Tech I bet they wish someone had put that punk in phsyc eval.
In todays world people need to pay attention to what other people are saying. If you told me you might hurt someone or hurt yourself, hell ya you have to do a phsyc test and I'd probally take your guns too. Doing their job the police might feel they saved someone's life or several lives. Virginia Tech I bet they wish someone had put that punk in phsyc eval.
First of all, please do not compare me to the student from Virginia Tech.
I am absolutely astonished to find that fellow gun owners and hunters are assuming that I am a psyco....that deserved to have my guns taken away from me.
Keep in mind that I gave the doctor the same statement thatI gave the officers in the prison.
The doctor didn't seem too worried.....DID HE?
Or else he COULD NOT have sent me home By Rhode Island law.
If he did think that I was a threat,
how did either him or the police "PROTECT" the public from me....or even me from myself ...BY SENDING ME BACK HOME?
Remember.....if I was going to hurt myself....I could have hung myself or overdosed on some pills....why didn't they ask for them?
Because I wasn't a threat to begin with.
Keep in mind also....no city town or village can make up their own bi- laws in Rhode Island. Which means 1 important thing. The pawtucket police were going to take my guns REGARDLESS of what the doctor said....due to the fact in THEIR OWN report. They stated thatthey were at my house to take my guns WHILE I WAS AT THE HOSPITAL. They were not even going to ask me for them!!!! So don't tell me that I handed them over.
I didn't turn my guns to them willingly, I was told that I HAD TO TURN THEM OVER.....but then they kindly asked asked me if I had any problem with that. You tell me what the hell I was going to say to that? I didn't want to give them a reason to start bullying me around....and giving them a real reason for them to take them away from me. I did what a true law abiding citizen would do....cooperate....even if I didn't like it.
Remember....only 1 person can determine my mental state....and it isn't a officer at the prison, it isn't my mommy or daddy....and it sure the hell aint no cop!!!! The only person who can diagnose, treat, or deem cured is a DOCTOR!!!!!
So on who's diagnosis are they finding me a threat to the public?
I really do want to thank all who did help...and all who made comments.....
I am going back to New York to get my family doctor to evaluate me and write for me a letter of release.
BTW I am sorry for posting this in 2 forums....I didn't think so many would get asupset as they did.
Again, thank you for all your help.
04-18-2007, 05:11 PM
#47
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 294
RE: POLICE TOOK MY GUNS.....ILLEGALLY....PLEASE HELP
ORIGINAL: Garminator
Based on YOUR OWN statements, I don't see you getting those guns back. Look on the bright side, there's always bow hunting
Based on YOUR OWN statements, I don't see you getting those guns back. Look on the bright side, there's always bow hunting
Have you ever made a statement?
where in any law does it state....."THAT BY WHAT HE/SHE SAYS", THEY WILL LOSE THEIR RIGHTS TO BEAR ARMS?
I like your melicious wink as well...and any that replied with a laugh also.
[blockquote]quote:
ORIGINAL: Garminator
Based on YOUR OWN statements, I don't see you getting those guns back. Look on the bright side, there's always bow hunting
[/blockquote]
Good one
you are a real support.
I would like to know what kind of " STATEMENTS" either of you would make if you had feces and piss thrown at you day after day.
I have seen some real bad CHIT in the prison. I seen aguy shove 6 razor blades up insidehis penis to avoid them being found in an unclothed search of the anus.
Ihave also seen a man put in diapers and had all his soaps and shampoos taken fromhis cell because he would smear the chit and piss and shampoo all over the window to deter the officers from making their standing and manditory counts.
But this didn't deter the man, do you know what he did? Heswallowed a bunch of razor blades one day while in the shower so he could come back to his cell and regurgitate the razor blades over and over untill it sliced the inside of his throat so he could spit up the blood on the window.
Do you know how dangerous it is for an officer when he is making his rounds?
An inmate could be in there with a shank....waiting to cut your throat.
NOW THERE'S A WINK FOR YOU.
I seen how one inmate carried an 19 inch shank that he made from a desk rail for 179 days in the prison WITHOUT IT BEING FOUND. This kinda makes you want to do a pat search on him....doesn't it?
I could tell you stories all day long of whatI haveseen.
ButI want to leave you with just one more story. This is for all of you that think the police are always doing their jobs
This is a story about a UNITED STATES MARSHAL who was placed in the SEG ward under protective custody because he was involved in an organized crime ring for money laundering, fraud and drug smuggling.His court case was approaching andmembers of the organized crime ring told the marshal that ifhe testified, THEY WOULD KILL HIS FAMILY.The first Thursday thatI was there, we were taken to do rutine cell shakes. Thats when the marshal was found in a pool of blood because he had taken a coffee mug and smashed it to peices and slit his wrist.
Just what I like to see first thing in the morning.
Guess you never know what people will do when put under those types of pressures. or if their families lives are threatened....even a GOOD OLE U.S MARSHAL... Man, to think that any law enforcement officer would be sooooooooo depressed to take his own life or hurt someone else.
I will have you know, roll call is at 6:48 am......I didn't get to the hospital till around 11:00 am. THAT MEANS I WAS BEING INTERROGATED BY THE OFFICERSFOR ALMOST 4 HOURS!!!!!!!!!!
So for all you who think that I just spilled my guts to the officers are wrong, I was not going to be let go UNTILL I GAVE A "DAMN GOOD REASON"
We were not aloud to "JUST NOT SHOW UP"....They told us they would come to our doors and demand for a reason.
Trust me, I didn't give up my guns willingly.....nor did I make the statements willingly.
MO Archer
titleAndStar(351,0,false,false,"","")
Rack Buck
[align=center][/align]
Posts: 351
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Saint Robert, MO
Status: offline
You talk too much. If the guns have alot of sentimental value then call a lawyer, if not take it as a lesson learned and just replace them. It's people like you that say all the wrong things that get all these wonderful gun laws created. Next time just tell them to TAKE THIS JOB AND SHOVE IT.....I AINT WORKIN HERE NO MORE!!!! And if they ask for a reason just throw in a few choice four letter words and they will ****** you to the door....but you will still have your guns.
_____________________________
Jake
04-18-2007, 07:14 PM
#48
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Saint Robert, MO
Posts: 496
RE: POLICE TOOK MY GUNS.....ILLEGALLY....PLEASE HELP
ORIGINAL: buckstalker1187
Have you ever made a statement?
where in any law does it state....."THAT BY WHAT HE/SHE SAYS", THEY WILL LOSE THEIR RIGHTS TO BEAR ARMS?
I like your melicious wink as well...and any that replied with a laugh also.
[blockquote]quote:
ORIGINAL: Garminator
Based on YOUR OWN statements, I don't see you getting those guns back. Look on the bright side, there's always bow hunting
[/blockquote]
Good one
you are a real support.
I would like to know what kind of " STATEMENTS" either of you would make if you had feces and piss thrown at you day after day.
I have seen some real bad CHIT in the prison. I seen aguy shove 6 razor blades up insidehis penis to avoid them being found in an unclothed search of the anus.
Ihave also seen a man put in diapers and had all his soaps and shampoos taken fromhis cell because he would smear the chit and piss and shampoo all over the window to deter the officers from making their standing and manditory counts.
But this didn't deter the man, do you know what he did? Heswallowed a bunch of razor blades one day while in the shower so he could come back to his cell and regurgitate the razor blades over and over untill it sliced the inside of his throat so he could spit up the blood on the window.
Do you know how dangerous it is for an officer when he is making his rounds?
An inmate could be in there with a shank....waiting to cut your throat.
NOW THERE'S A WINK FOR YOU.
I seen how one inmate carried an 19 inch shank that he made from a desk rail for 179 days in the prison WITHOUT IT BEING FOUND. This kinda makes you want to do a pat search on him....doesn't it?
I could tell you stories all day long of whatI haveseen.
ButI want to leave you with just one more story. This is for all of you that think the police are always doing their jobs
This is a story about a UNITED STATES MARSHAL who was placed in the SEG ward under protective custody because he was involved in an organized crime ring for money laundering, fraud and drug smuggling.His court case was approaching andmembers of the organized crime ring told the marshal that ifhe testified, THEY WOULD KILL HIS FAMILY.The first Thursday thatI was there, we were taken to do rutine cell shakes. Thats when the marshal was found in a pool of blood because he had taken a coffee mug and smashed it to peices and slit his wrist.
Just what I like to see first thing in the morning.
Guess you never know what people will do when put under those types of pressures. or if their families lives are threatened....even a GOOD OLE U.S MARSHAL... Man, to think that any law enforcement officer would be sooooooooo depressed to take his own life or hurt someone else.
I will have you know, roll call is at 6:48 am......I didn't get to the hospital till around 11:00 am. THAT MEANS I WAS BEING INTERROGATED BY THE OFFICERSFOR ALMOST 4 HOURS!!!!!!!!!!
So for all you who think that I just spilled my guts to the officers are wrong, I was not going to be let go UNTILL I GAVE A "DAMN GOOD REASON"
We were not aloud to "JUST NOT SHOW UP"....They told us they would come to our doors and demand for a reason.
Trust me, I didn't give up my guns willingly.....nor did I make the statements willingly.
MO Archer
titleAndStar(351,0,false,false,"","")
Rack Buck
[align=center][/align]
Posts: 351
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Saint Robert, MO
Status: offline
You talk too much. If the guns have alot of sentimental value then call a lawyer, if not take it as a lesson learned and just replace them. It's people like you that say all the wrong things that get all these wonderful gun laws created. Next time just tell them to TAKE THIS JOB AND SHOVE IT.....I AINT WORKIN HERE NO MORE!!!! And if they ask for a reason just throw in a few choice four letter words and they will ****** you to the door....but you will still have your guns.
_____________________________
Jake
ORIGINAL: Garminator
Based on YOUR OWN statements, I don't see you getting those guns back. Look on the bright side, there's always bow hunting
Based on YOUR OWN statements, I don't see you getting those guns back. Look on the bright side, there's always bow hunting
Have you ever made a statement?
where in any law does it state....."THAT BY WHAT HE/SHE SAYS", THEY WILL LOSE THEIR RIGHTS TO BEAR ARMS?
I like your melicious wink as well...and any that replied with a laugh also.
[blockquote]quote:
ORIGINAL: Garminator
Based on YOUR OWN statements, I don't see you getting those guns back. Look on the bright side, there's always bow hunting
[/blockquote]
Good one
you are a real support.
I would like to know what kind of " STATEMENTS" either of you would make if you had feces and piss thrown at you day after day.
I have seen some real bad CHIT in the prison. I seen aguy shove 6 razor blades up insidehis penis to avoid them being found in an unclothed search of the anus.
Ihave also seen a man put in diapers and had all his soaps and shampoos taken fromhis cell because he would smear the chit and piss and shampoo all over the window to deter the officers from making their standing and manditory counts.
But this didn't deter the man, do you know what he did? Heswallowed a bunch of razor blades one day while in the shower so he could come back to his cell and regurgitate the razor blades over and over untill it sliced the inside of his throat so he could spit up the blood on the window.
Do you know how dangerous it is for an officer when he is making his rounds?
An inmate could be in there with a shank....waiting to cut your throat.
NOW THERE'S A WINK FOR YOU.
I seen how one inmate carried an 19 inch shank that he made from a desk rail for 179 days in the prison WITHOUT IT BEING FOUND. This kinda makes you want to do a pat search on him....doesn't it?
I could tell you stories all day long of whatI haveseen.
ButI want to leave you with just one more story. This is for all of you that think the police are always doing their jobs
This is a story about a UNITED STATES MARSHAL who was placed in the SEG ward under protective custody because he was involved in an organized crime ring for money laundering, fraud and drug smuggling.His court case was approaching andmembers of the organized crime ring told the marshal that ifhe testified, THEY WOULD KILL HIS FAMILY.The first Thursday thatI was there, we were taken to do rutine cell shakes. Thats when the marshal was found in a pool of blood because he had taken a coffee mug and smashed it to peices and slit his wrist.
Just what I like to see first thing in the morning.
Guess you never know what people will do when put under those types of pressures. or if their families lives are threatened....even a GOOD OLE U.S MARSHAL... Man, to think that any law enforcement officer would be sooooooooo depressed to take his own life or hurt someone else.
I will have you know, roll call is at 6:48 am......I didn't get to the hospital till around 11:00 am. THAT MEANS I WAS BEING INTERROGATED BY THE OFFICERSFOR ALMOST 4 HOURS!!!!!!!!!!
So for all you who think that I just spilled my guts to the officers are wrong, I was not going to be let go UNTILL I GAVE A "DAMN GOOD REASON"
We were not aloud to "JUST NOT SHOW UP"....They told us they would come to our doors and demand for a reason.
Trust me, I didn't give up my guns willingly.....nor did I make the statements willingly.
MO Archer
titleAndStar(351,0,false,false,"","")
Rack Buck
[align=center][/align]
Posts: 351
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Saint Robert, MO
Status: offline
You talk too much. If the guns have alot of sentimental value then call a lawyer, if not take it as a lesson learned and just replace them. It's people like you that say all the wrong things that get all these wonderful gun laws created. Next time just tell them to TAKE THIS JOB AND SHOVE IT.....I AINT WORKIN HERE NO MORE!!!! And if they ask for a reason just throw in a few choice four letter words and they will ****** you to the door....but you will still have your guns.
_____________________________
Jake
Oh..and by the way..if you know and understand so much about the laws of giving statements and medical determinations of mental stability...why don't you have your guns back already?
I hate that this happened to you. But you have to understand that youGAVE them the reason by saying what you said. YouGAVE them your gunsand now you have to deal with it.
04-18-2007, 11:14 PM
#49
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3,145
RE: POLICE TOOK MY GUNS.....ILLEGALLY....PLEASE HELP
OK, let's take a deep breath here. First, debating about whether you gave up your guns or they took them is pointless. The point is, they have them now and you want them back. If they had confiscated them without probable cause, your civil rights were violated. If you let them have the guns on your own and asked for them back and they refused(without probable cause), your civil rights were violated. The only difference is the time of the violation. At this point the time of violation is not your concern.
Probable cause in this case would be that you failed your psych evaluation during your "exit interview". Obviously, this is not the case or you would not have been trying to get them back later in the day. You would have been taking the 72 hour tour at the hospital.
Read the incident report generated by the local PD and try to find the statement of probable cause(why they took them). If that statement does not measure up to probable cause as outlined in the 4th Amendment, you got yourself a case.
Don't expect them to give your guns back with a letter from an attorney. They will use the VT incident as justification for holding onto them. You will most likely have to file suit. Once the suit is filed, the city attorney will determine whether to go to trial or give your guns back(there has to be some kind of hearing-due process). If the report is junk they will give your guns back without a hearing. If the report is well written or your city attorney is a gun-grabber, you will go to trial. Either way, file a civil suit against the city at the same time for the violation of your rights. The civil suit will put pressure on the city to quit, if they quit, the civil suit is a slam-dunk. If they take it to trial, you can bet everyone in the room will already know about your pending civil suit. Then you can argue that they only fought you because you filed a civil suit against the city. They look bad either way. If they fight you and loose, your civil suit will probably settle out of court in your favor.
Remember, you don't have to prove anything. They took your stuff, they must prove everything they did was right.
Probable cause in this case would be that you failed your psych evaluation during your "exit interview". Obviously, this is not the case or you would not have been trying to get them back later in the day. You would have been taking the 72 hour tour at the hospital.
Read the incident report generated by the local PD and try to find the statement of probable cause(why they took them). If that statement does not measure up to probable cause as outlined in the 4th Amendment, you got yourself a case.
Don't expect them to give your guns back with a letter from an attorney. They will use the VT incident as justification for holding onto them. You will most likely have to file suit. Once the suit is filed, the city attorney will determine whether to go to trial or give your guns back(there has to be some kind of hearing-due process). If the report is junk they will give your guns back without a hearing. If the report is well written or your city attorney is a gun-grabber, you will go to trial. Either way, file a civil suit against the city at the same time for the violation of your rights. The civil suit will put pressure on the city to quit, if they quit, the civil suit is a slam-dunk. If they take it to trial, you can bet everyone in the room will already know about your pending civil suit. Then you can argue that they only fought you because you filed a civil suit against the city. They look bad either way. If they fight you and loose, your civil suit will probably settle out of court in your favor.
Remember, you don't have to prove anything. They took your stuff, they must prove everything they did was right.
04-19-2007, 04:25 AM
#50
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 549
RE: POLICE TOOK MY GUNS.....ILLEGALLY....PLEASE HELP
I thought the police academy was totally voluntary if you wanted to try and become a police officer. I know the tests are pretty hard. So unlike being like the military where you don't have a choice to leave, why didn't you just walk out instead of saying all the things that would give them an idea that you could be harmful to other people>? It don't make no sense.