Bore Cleaning Question
 

Alright, I've never owned a brand new centerfire rifle before, so I want to make sure Itreatthe barrelright on the one I just bought. I know what break in method I'm going to use, but so far I've just been cleaning the gun in preparation.I haven't fired a round yet, and want to make sure the bore is clean before I do. The question is, how clean is clean? I spent severalhoursswabbing and brushing the bore the other night. I got it to a point that solvent soaked patches will come out clean, but if you let some solvent sit in the barrel for 10-15 minutes and then scrub it with awire brush, the next few patchesare still really dirty with signs of copper.Should I keep trying to get the barrel clean, or will it just not get truly clean?

RE: Bore Cleaning Question
 

I've been there, too.I'd do the Hoppes patches, then dry patches, then Shooter's Choice copper remover, then Hoppes again, then brushing, then Hoppes... Too much work, and I'd eventually give up.

I then ran into an old timer who runs a decrepit gun shop, & when I told him my groups were inconsistent, he said my gun's probably dirty. When I, rather defensively, told him about my obsessive cleaning regimen, he just shook his head & said, "it's not enough." Then he pulls out a small can of bore foam & said, "use this".

I was surprised to see such a weathered fella suggest such a newfangled approach, but I gave it a shot. Hoppes, then a dry patch, then a good brushing, then the foam. Well, it cut my cleaning time by 3/4, and I promptly went out & shot my best group ever. I'm not sure if I'm officially converted, but I'm certainly going to be giving it some more trials.

I know there are several brands out there, but I have no idea about the differences between them. FWIW, I've been using KleenBore.

FC

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RE: Bore Cleaning Question
 

Let me get this straight, you spent several hours cleaning a brand new rifle bore? What a waste of time. If you're getting indications of copper fouling after using a bore brush, there's a very goodchance it's the brush that causing it. Here's what I do every 20 or 30 shots and it works well for me:I first clean for powder foulingwith Shooters Choice, MPro-7 or Butches Bore Shine. Either one seems to do a good job on powder. I first soak the bore and let it stand for 20 or 30 minutes. Then I wet a bronze brush and brush the bore about 10 or 12 strokes. Then I push all of that out with 3 or 4 wet patches. Then I dry patch that out. Next I clean for copper, but only if I think copper is a problem (i.e., if accuracy is starting to suffer). I use Montana Extreme 50 BMG if I want to get it done right then and there. Otherwise I use Wipeout foam and leave it in for several hours or overnight. Patch that out with 3 or 4 dry patches then follow up with a good oil. Then before I shoot again I make sure I patch out any excess oil. Thats it, it's pretty simple really.

RE: Bore Cleaning Question
 

I just never clean the bores on my rifles and they all shoot extremely well! hehehe

My 7mag Browning I have owned since I was 12 years old, I will turn 24 in 29 days or so, and I have cleaned the bore on it once, and it will put 3 shots under .5" using handloads. The rifle has around 1,000rds put thru it. It is to the point though where I think I will give it a good scrubbing, just for good measure. :D

RE: Bore Cleaning Question
 

I agree. You need to doa good intial cleaning to removethe packing lubeand some lightfouling from test firing but in no way should you be cleaning for 2 hours on a new bore. I pretty much follow solitary mans routine but do strip copper after every range session, only had a couple new rifles that didn't shoot well this way and even then a few fouling shots were all that is required to get me back to my desired POI. My thoughts are copper left unattended will do more harm then cleaning it out regularily, though proper tools and techniques are required.

RE: Bore Cleaning Question
 

I found this on the Shilen web page today:

As with break-in and using coated bullets, you will find many diverse opinions on this subject.
EQUIPMENT: Cleaning Rods: Use a good quality coated cleaning rod with a rotating handle. The rotating handle allows the brush or patch to follow the lands and grooves. A non rotating handle forces the brush bristles to jump over the lands and grooves instead of following them.
BRUSHES: Use a good brass or bronze brush with a looped end. Do not use a brush with a sharp, pointed end.
SOLVENTS:
Every shooting product manufacturer has their own miracle solvent, and most do the job as advertised.
BORE GUIDES: Highly recommended!
PATCHES: Flannel or cotton patches work the best. Either trim or fold your patch to insure that it will fit snugly into the bore, but not so tightly you have to force it. Forcing a patch causes the rod to flex inside the bore of the rifle. If you are using a coated rod, this usually won't hurt anything, but the uncoated stainless steel rods that some shooters use can batter against the inside of the bore and damage rifling.
PROCEDURE: Once again, many different procedures abound. All accomplish basically the same thing. Here's ours: With the bore guide and the brass brush on the cleaning rod, apply the solvent to the brush by dipping it in the bottle or squirting a few drops on the brush. Slide the bore guide up over the brush and insert the bore guide into the chamber with a twisting motion. Push the brush through the barrel until it comes out the end of the muzzle. Now pull the brush back into the chamber guide. This is one "cycle". Make one cycle for each bullet fired, then apply more solvent to the brush and repeat this procedure. Now, fold or cut the patch for a snug, not tight, fit. Push the the first patch all the way through the bore and out the muzzle. As you draw the rod back, the patch should fall off. Put on another patch and push it towards the muzzle until you can feel it touch your finger placed over the muzzle. Then draw the patch back to the chamber and push it once more out the end of the muzzle so that it drops off. Repeat this with one more patch and you are finished. If you are through shooting for the day, lightly wet a patch with a light viscosity machine oil to prevent or retard rust. Push this patch through the bore. Let it drop out the muzzle, and you are done.


And here's what they had to say about cleaning on an ongoing basis:

How clean is clean?
We get this question many times and have a great deal of difficulty helping some customers understand that a rifle barrel does not have to be spotless to shoot great. Many times more harm than good is done in trying to get it that way. Picture a car's fender. If the fender has a small dent in it, then professional application of body putty fills the dent. When painted over, the dent becomes unnoticeable, and the surface of the fender is smooth and consistent. The same thing happens in a rifle barrel on a microscopic level. Removing this small trace of copper puts you right back to square one. The next bullet that crosses that area will, again, leave a small trace of copper. Similar to patching a pothole. All successful benchrest shooters shoot one or more "fouler" shots down the barrel before going to the record target. This is not to warm up the barrel. They are resurfacing it on the inside. Benchrest shooters clean between relays to get the powder fowling out, not the copper. However, since copper usually comes out with the powder, they know that it must be replaced to get "back in the groove". I've had shooters tell me they "cleaned their rifle for 3 hours to get all the copper out of it." Their next statement is almost invariably that they had to shoot 4-5 rounds through it just to get it back to "shooting" again. This tells me that in order for the rifle to shoot well again, they had to replace the copper they worked so diligently to remove. I have a 7x08 Improved that shoots the same 1/2" MOA after 15 minutes of cleaning or 3 hours of scrubbing and de-coppering. Personally, I prefer shooting to cleaning. The gist of this is to set a regular cleaning regimen and stay with it. If the accuracy of the rifle is acceptable with a 15 min. cleaning, why clean longer? I would much rather have people admiring the groups I shot than marveling at how clean my barrel looks on the inside.

I guess I'd give them a little bit of credence, given the reputation of their barrels.

FC

RE: Bore Cleaning Question
 

You sound like most of the guys I hunt with. And to be quite honest I find nothing wrong with it.My buddiesaren't into rifles, handloading and such.Some go years and years withoutputting a cleaning patch down a rifle bore.Yet they go out every year and shoot deer just as well if not better than I do. My own priorities have changed somewhat over the last few years too and although Iprefer having a clean rifle,I don't obsess overit like I once did.

The routine I mentioned above is one I developed after a good bit of trial and error. It's second nature to me now, so it doesn't really require a lot of my time. Most of the time involvesletting the chemicals do their job and that doesn'ttake any input from me. The actual time I spend during the process is probably no more than 15 to 20 minutes per gun. I'm just not going to spend hours on end cleaning my guns. I got better things to do.

RE: Bore Cleaning Question
 

There is such a thing as cleaning it too much.......now you dont wanna clean it everytime you shoot, but excessive cleaning with abrasive brushes with hurt the rifling on a barrel so be careful.

RE: Bore Cleaning Question
 

Ya, I just don't figure to mess with a good thing, until something starts acting up. I shoot my rifles alot more than most guys in my area, and during the season you will still find me shooting groups. Until my groups start to open up I don't bother. I recently had to give my Tikka T3 in 243 a good cleaning, and that didn't help much. I think I might have some throat errosion starting with it. I've put roughly 4600rds thru that gun in abouta 5 year period, so I'm guessing it is time to re-barrel or trade.