What slug gun for kids ?
03-01-2007, 06:56 AM
#22
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Darien, IL
Posts: 6,744
RE: What slug gun for kids ?
Let's take this situation ONE STEP AT A TIME.
Daughter is now 4.
She wants to start deer hunting with you "in the next few years". This will bring her to 6 or 7 years old, correct?
In order to hunt in IL she will have to successfully attend a hunter safety education course and pass the examination. At 6 or 7 YOA (or sometimes even 8 or 9) the kids are not able to read the test. We are not able to turn anyone wanting to take the class/test away based on age (discrimination), so one of us instructors (we can't allow parents,siblings or others to do it) will read each of the 50 test questions to the student and read each of the 4 multiple choice answers.
I have never seen these young of studentspass the test. It breaks my heart because as I read the questions, as hard and helpful as I try to be, I know the students do not understand the great majority of the questions.It is QUITE HEARTBREAKING at times, believe me. I teach these classes because I love kids and getting them into the outdoors with their Moms and Dads. I would love to walk away at the end of each class and test with a warm feeling but when the young kids are in class I know all weekend that I will have to walk away with a bad feeling. Kinda like a lump in my throat that I have to swallow.
IMO getting by this obstacle first should be priority. You may have to repeat the classes several times so be sure to be upfront about this with her to minimize disappointment. I see plenty of kids leave in tears. Sometimes I practically shed tears myself.
Then worry about the gun.
Daughter is now 4.
She wants to start deer hunting with you "in the next few years". This will bring her to 6 or 7 years old, correct?
In order to hunt in IL she will have to successfully attend a hunter safety education course and pass the examination. At 6 or 7 YOA (or sometimes even 8 or 9) the kids are not able to read the test. We are not able to turn anyone wanting to take the class/test away based on age (discrimination), so one of us instructors (we can't allow parents,siblings or others to do it) will read each of the 50 test questions to the student and read each of the 4 multiple choice answers.
I have never seen these young of studentspass the test. It breaks my heart because as I read the questions, as hard and helpful as I try to be, I know the students do not understand the great majority of the questions.It is QUITE HEARTBREAKING at times, believe me. I teach these classes because I love kids and getting them into the outdoors with their Moms and Dads. I would love to walk away at the end of each class and test with a warm feeling but when the young kids are in class I know all weekend that I will have to walk away with a bad feeling. Kinda like a lump in my throat that I have to swallow.
IMO getting by this obstacle first should be priority. You may have to repeat the classes several times so be sure to be upfront about this with her to minimize disappointment. I see plenty of kids leave in tears. Sometimes I practically shed tears myself.
Then worry about the gun.
03-01-2007, 11:36 AM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Too close to Chicago
Posts: 3,337
RE: What slug gun for kids ?
I just finally had time to read all the responses today.
Thank you for your input everyone.
I'm pleased to see how many of you have helped children learn our favortie pastime.
As I stated in the original post, the legal minimum for IL deer is 20 gauge, so that throws out anything smaller. My little girl will already have the shooting basics down pat by the time she hunts. If she's interested, she'll start with an airgun, then a 22 carbine, then a 22 pistol, and only then will she be moving on to bigger things, but I'm concerned about the 20's recoil.
She will also accompany me on my huntsin the ways several of you have suggested. She needs to learn the ways of the woods, how to read sign, how to move quietly, how to use the weather and wind, and needs to observe deer under a variety of conditions so that she can learn their ways too. There is no substitute for personal experience, and I'd like her to learn much before actually pulling a trigger.
I feel that all beginnerhunters would benefit from having a mentor show them the way, but I definitely want my daughter to learn things in the proper order, and demonstrate safety and responsibility on the rangewell before she walks with a loaded gun in search of game.
I am jumping the gun here a bit since she is still so young, but I want to be ahead of the game in my thinking, and to be a good resource for anyone who asks me what might work best.
In spite of the pump's lower cost, simpler manual of arms, and forced time to think before shooting follow up shots, I'm still leaning toward the 20 semi for the reduced recoil, and avoiding having her not able to cycle the action of a pump because her arms aren't long enough yet. I can limit her additional shots by simply loading only 1 shell, and keeping extras handy. Not ideal, but a good start.
It's good to know that there have been problems getting kids to pass the test. I would have thought that with proper study, practice, and well written clear questions, that it would not be incredibly difficult for kids to pass. I truly hope that the main cause for this is that the kids taking the test are not properly prepared, and not that there is a flaw in the testing.
I wish I could set her up with a nice 243 bolt adn not have to consider this so much, but the powers that be have deemed us IL residents too unfit and unsafe to hunt with any weapon that shoots out past 200 yards. [:@]
Thanks again.
Thank you for your input everyone.
I'm pleased to see how many of you have helped children learn our favortie pastime.
As I stated in the original post, the legal minimum for IL deer is 20 gauge, so that throws out anything smaller. My little girl will already have the shooting basics down pat by the time she hunts. If she's interested, she'll start with an airgun, then a 22 carbine, then a 22 pistol, and only then will she be moving on to bigger things, but I'm concerned about the 20's recoil.
She will also accompany me on my huntsin the ways several of you have suggested. She needs to learn the ways of the woods, how to read sign, how to move quietly, how to use the weather and wind, and needs to observe deer under a variety of conditions so that she can learn their ways too. There is no substitute for personal experience, and I'd like her to learn much before actually pulling a trigger.
I feel that all beginnerhunters would benefit from having a mentor show them the way, but I definitely want my daughter to learn things in the proper order, and demonstrate safety and responsibility on the rangewell before she walks with a loaded gun in search of game.
I am jumping the gun here a bit since she is still so young, but I want to be ahead of the game in my thinking, and to be a good resource for anyone who asks me what might work best.
In spite of the pump's lower cost, simpler manual of arms, and forced time to think before shooting follow up shots, I'm still leaning toward the 20 semi for the reduced recoil, and avoiding having her not able to cycle the action of a pump because her arms aren't long enough yet. I can limit her additional shots by simply loading only 1 shell, and keeping extras handy. Not ideal, but a good start.
It's good to know that there have been problems getting kids to pass the test. I would have thought that with proper study, practice, and well written clear questions, that it would not be incredibly difficult for kids to pass. I truly hope that the main cause for this is that the kids taking the test are not properly prepared, and not that there is a flaw in the testing.
I wish I could set her up with a nice 243 bolt adn not have to consider this so much, but the powers that be have deemed us IL residents too unfit and unsafe to hunt with any weapon that shoots out past 200 yards. [:@]
Thanks again.
03-01-2007, 12:38 PM
#25
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: mississippi by way of Florida
Posts: 357
RE: What slug gun for kids ?
My boys started out, and still pretty much use, two guns.
First was the same exact gun pictured earlier in the forum. The mossberg 500 youth gun. We have two barrels, one is 26 inches (I think) w/ a vent rib and choke tubes. The other is the rifled, ported 20 gauge. It still does kick a bit, but they started shooting it when they were 7 or so with little problems. The rifled barrel combined with partition gold sabots will flat bust a deer out to 150 yards easy, (of course, I limit my kids to about 80 yard broadside shots). Also, it really has great terminal performance, the boys have taken 3 or 4 with it in the last three years, all clean shots through the deer with devestating damage.
The other gun is a T/C Black Diamond muzzle loader. At first blush you may think it not a reasonable gun, but let me finish. I took a used Black Diamond and cut 4 or 5 inches off the barrel and recrowned it. Has about 19 inches or so of barrel left. I then took two or three inches off the stock, put several ounces of lead in the stock cavity and put a limbsaver recoil pad on it. Topped that off with a Bushnell Dusk to Dawn 3x9 scope. Makes for a very nice and handy scout type rifle. We use 70 grains of 777 loose powder and Hornady 240 grain XTP hollowpoint bullets.They have killed 5 deer in the past three years with the m/ler and every shot has been a clean passthrough with a good blood trail. At 100 yards it shoots a pretty decent 2 inch group.The lighter load, combined with the lead in the stock, results in a light to moderate "shove" rather than a kick. All the guys here love the gun and tease my boys that they are going to sneak it out of the truck.
My oldest son, now 11, much rathers the muzzle loader to the 20 any day. This is a good option, because with this gun they can hunt in both the gun and m/l seasons. They only have one shot, but so far, that is all they have needed with either gun.
Good luck
Hank
First was the same exact gun pictured earlier in the forum. The mossberg 500 youth gun. We have two barrels, one is 26 inches (I think) w/ a vent rib and choke tubes. The other is the rifled, ported 20 gauge. It still does kick a bit, but they started shooting it when they were 7 or so with little problems. The rifled barrel combined with partition gold sabots will flat bust a deer out to 150 yards easy, (of course, I limit my kids to about 80 yard broadside shots). Also, it really has great terminal performance, the boys have taken 3 or 4 with it in the last three years, all clean shots through the deer with devestating damage.
The other gun is a T/C Black Diamond muzzle loader. At first blush you may think it not a reasonable gun, but let me finish. I took a used Black Diamond and cut 4 or 5 inches off the barrel and recrowned it. Has about 19 inches or so of barrel left. I then took two or three inches off the stock, put several ounces of lead in the stock cavity and put a limbsaver recoil pad on it. Topped that off with a Bushnell Dusk to Dawn 3x9 scope. Makes for a very nice and handy scout type rifle. We use 70 grains of 777 loose powder and Hornady 240 grain XTP hollowpoint bullets.They have killed 5 deer in the past three years with the m/ler and every shot has been a clean passthrough with a good blood trail. At 100 yards it shoots a pretty decent 2 inch group.The lighter load, combined with the lead in the stock, results in a light to moderate "shove" rather than a kick. All the guys here love the gun and tease my boys that they are going to sneak it out of the truck.
My oldest son, now 11, much rathers the muzzle loader to the 20 any day. This is a good option, because with this gun they can hunt in both the gun and m/l seasons. They only have one shot, but so far, that is all they have needed with either gun.
Good luck
Hank
03-01-2007, 02:50 PM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Too close to Chicago
Posts: 3,337
RE: What slug gun for kids ?
The other gun is a T/C Black Diamond muzzle loader.
Thanks
03-01-2007, 08:56 PM
#28
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Darien, IL
Posts: 6,744
RE: What slug gun for kids ?
Not sure how the 20 gauge Remington Reduced Recoil will cycle a semi-auto. But they are sure softer than anything else - that's for sure. I bet they would feel very soft in an H&R. I'll have to try a box and see.
03-04-2007, 07:54 AM
#29
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Too close to Chicago
Posts: 3,337
RE: What slug gun for kids ?
I'll have to try a box and see.
I really do want to find a good slug or ML solution for the youngsters, and have good info on some alternatives.
